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»Comparisons between NEUROMANCER and THE MATRIX«


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Symbols in the Matrix & References to existing philosophies

 

BatmAngelus

Comparisons between NEUROMANCER and THE MATRIX  

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Here's a list of comparisons between William Gibson's 1984 sci-fi novel NEUROMANCER and THE MATRIX films. Some of these may seem picky and stupid, but I did my best to draw out some possible comparisons. Also, some of these are from MFN! (those in <<...>>). I just blended them into my list.

* The main character Case, is kinda like Neo. He's an expert at hacking and working with computers. He also feels that he doesn't belong. He does deals with gangsters.

* The Matrix in NEUROMANCER is used mainly for business purposes.
<<Gibson presented the idea of a global information network called the Matrix, and the term cyberspace, a virtual reality simulation with a direct neural feedback.>> 

* Case goes on drugs. Drug references are made by Choi in THE MATRIX.

* The girl, Molly, is almost always in black. She wears sunglasses too...all the time (they’re surgically attached to her eyes). She is a "street samurai." A trained killer and expert in weapons. She is kinda the love interest in the fact that she and Case are sex partners and don’t seem to have strong affectionate feelings for each other (think Neo and Trinity without the “I love you”s).

* Case's new employer, Armitage, is a man of mystery with a large chest and draped in a black trenchcoat. Kind of like Morpheus.

* NEUROMANCER is also kinda violent and has gun shots flying and stuff.
There's this one scene between Molly and gangsters (with Case and Linda in the crossfire) that feels like it's going in slow motion.

* He has a girlfriend named Linda Lee that gets killed off by some of the gangsters. In one of the original Matrix drafts, Neo left behind a girlfriend in The Matrix.

* A character named Finn helps them and he goes on to know so much about the system that they call him "The Oracle."

* <<The Matrix in "Neuromancer" is the same as in the movie; it was totally real, and if you died in it, you died in real life (there was one character, "Dixie Flatline" who died, and his persona was recorded into a "construct" (eh, ever heard of that? Wink and used by the main character of the book as a guide). >>

* <<"Neuromancer" was the first book (that I know of) to use "jack in" and associated terms to refer to using a computer network.>>

*<< In "Neuromancer" you hooked up electrodes to your forehead to jack in; in The Matrix, you plugged it right into your brain. >>

* <<Users of the matrix in "Neuromancer" would strap themselves into their chair, so that they wouldn't move around too much while they were jacked in -- remember Neo jerking around during the fights with the Agents? >>

* There's also someone named Smith in the story that Finn talks about. Guy escapes death after dealing with Tessier-Ashpool.

* They also use EMP weapons. Armitage was foiled in a past attack because the EMP went off and it sabotaged the whole attack. He was the only survivor. Sound familiar?

* Zion, by the time Neo finds it, was built and re-built by the previous Five Ones. The Zion in NEUROMANCER, when Case finds it, was discovered by five workers.

*<< In "Neuromancer," the place that Maelcum (and Aerol) is from is called Zion.>>

* Case and Molly are brought forth, by Maelcum, to the “Elders of Zion/Founders of Zion” which may be similar to the Council of Zion in THE MATRIX.

* There’s a prophecy of the Final Days of Babylon which is the destruction of the city of Babylon (similar to the destruction of Zion pre-destined by the machines?). They expected false prophets (prophets? Prophets like the Oracle?) and that Case and Molly would serve as a tool for the Final Days.

* <<Maelcum is a big, "all natural" rastafarian that wouldn't enter the matrix -- much like Tank and Dozer.>>

* <<In "Neuromancer", Maelcum flys a "tug" space-vessel (BatmAngelus note: They are Marcus Garvey and Aerol has the Babylon Rocker)... It's weaponless, and good for hauling people and gear around. Much like the Neb in the Matrix, I suppose.>>

* Case wakes up in “Chiba” in the pouring rain, the place where Armitage took him off the street. It rains in the City of THE MATRIX a lot (when Neo meets Morpheus and when Neo fights Smith in REVOLUTIONS).

* Case finds “Linda” in the arcade, a virtual reality, where she plays Wizard’s Castle against a vampire in a dungeon. (ENTER THE MATRIX anybody?).

* <<In "Neuromancer" the AI "Wintermute" was controlling the lives of a few of the characters via interacting with their electonic appliances, and they didn't really know it; hmm... AI's controlling humans?>>

* At times in the novel, Case heart stops when he’s in The Matrix, but he is still alive!

* Case gets nightmares (like Neo?).

* In one of Case’s dreams, he dreams of destroying a factory of babies, grown in tubes inside the Tessier-Ashpool (his enemy) factory. Is that like the humans grown in the vats, plugged into the Matrix?

* In the same dream, Case hears his fake girlfriend laughing at him five floors above. Does that mean he’s six floors from the top? (significant number 6)

* Case questions if the stuff that Molly puts on him (a fake tan) looks real. This could possibly parallel Neo asking Morpheus what is real and what isn’t.

* Case uncovers a virus with the code of “Reinhold Scientific A.G.” that’s connected to Tessier-Ashpool. Possibly like Reinheart who is a boss of Neo and is connected to the Matrix.

* Case throws up after seeing a hologram (partially caused by the drugs he took). Neo throws up after seeing the fact that most of his life was made up of a lie.

* Case is captured by three policemen (Turings instead of agents). Two of them, Roland and Pierre, look alike. Possible influence on the agents?

* One of the policemen that catches Case is named Roland.

* The police that capture Case speak in French. French villians. Hmm.

* Like many scenes in THE MATRIX, Case is given an important choice. The choice in the novel is: go with the Turings or get arrested.

* Case asks if they have jurisdiction. The term jurisdiction was made fun of in reference to the agents in THE MATRIX.

* Maelcum refers to Dixie as “the ghost.” Possible inspiration for Ghost?

* Molly talks about someone she knew named Johnny. I believe she’s referring to Johnny Mnemonic, who was played in the film by Keanu Reeves (!).

* The villian John Ashpool is an old man with a French accent. Hmm, old French villian....

* Ashpool has one bare foot and another in a slipper. He is also very tall. It kind of reminds me of the Trainman, the tall man with the eyes of different colors.

* A small Braun spider helps guide them with a red LED. The description reminded me somewhat of a Sentinel, which is based more off a squid than a spider. Still, they both have the red LED.

* When Armitage dies, Case sees him in space and imagines his trenchcoat flapping out behind the dead man, spreading out like bat wings. This reminded me of the description of Morpheus climbing up out of the sewers in the ‘96 draft with his trenchcoat spreading around behind him. Also, Val Kilmer was one of the original actors considered for the role of Morpheus and Kilmer played Batman.

* The ninja, Hideo, reminded me somewhat of Seraph. He is a dangerous fighter, yet he is also kind of peaceful (i.e. he apologizes for shooting Maelcum’s arm with an arrow).

* The three villians, Hideo, 3Jane, and Peter Riviera, keep Molly alive, but tortured (i.e. Peter takes out one of Molly’s lenses, Hideo takes out Molly’s leg, etc.) and Case decides not to flee and feels that he should rescue her. This is kind of like THE MATRIX where Morpheus is captured and Neo decides to rescue him.

Any thoughts?

emp

  

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I have had that book for a year, but never gotten around to reading it. I am happy, though, as reading it would have made see the matrix movies as a ripoff. I knew that they gathered influences from everywhere, but not that they got so many from one place...

knn

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Re: Comparisons between NEUROMANCER and THE MATRIX  

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BatmAngelus wrote:

Here's a list of comparisons between William Gibson's 1984 sci-fi novel NEUROMANCER and THE MATRIX films. Some of these may seem picky and stupid, but I did my best to draw out some possible comparisons. Also, some of these are from MFN! (those in <<...>>). I just blended them into my list.

* The main character Case, is kinda like Neo. He's an expert at hacking and working with computers. He also feels that he doesn't belong. He does deals with gangsters.

* The Matrix in NEUROMANCER is used mainly for business purposes.
<<Gibson presented the idea of a global information network called the Matrix, and the term cyberspace, a virtual reality simulation with a direct neural feedback.>> 

* Case goes on drugs. Drug references are made by Choi in THE MATRIX.

* The girl, Molly, is almost always in black. She wears sunglasses too...all the time (they’re surgically attached to her eyes). She is a "street samurai." A trained killer and expert in weapons. She is kinda the love interest in the fact that she and Case are sex partners and don’t seem to have strong affectionate feelings for each other (think Neo and Trinity without the “I love you”s).

* Case's new employer, Armitage, is a man of mystery with a large chest and draped in a black trenchcoat. Kind of like Morpheus.

* NEUROMANCER is also kinda violent and has gun shots flying and stuff.
There's this one scene between Molly and gangsters (with Case and Linda in the crossfire) that feels like it's going in slow motion.

* He has a girlfriend named Linda Lee that gets killed off by some of the gangsters. In one of the original Matrix drafts, Neo left behind a girlfriend in The Matrix.

* A character named Finn helps them and he goes on to know so much about the system that they call him "The Oracle."

* <<The Matrix in "Neuromancer" is the same as in the movie; it was totally real, and if you died in it, you died in real life (there was one character, "Dixie Flatline" who died, and his persona was recorded into a "construct" (eh, ever heard of that? Wink and used by the main character of the book as a guide). >>

* <<"Neuromancer" was the first book (that I know of) to use "jack in" and associated terms to refer to using a computer network.>>

*<< In "Neuromancer" you hooked up electrodes to your forehead to jack in; in The Matrix, you plugged it right into your brain. >>

* <<Users of the matrix in "Neuromancer" would strap themselves into their chair, so that they wouldn't move around too much while they were jacked in -- remember Neo jerking around during the fights with the Agents? >>

* There's also someone named Smith in the story that Finn talks about. Guy escapes death after dealing with Tessier-Ashpool.

* They also use EMP weapons. Armitage was foiled in a past attack because the EMP went off and it sabotaged the whole attack. He was the only survivor. Sound familiar?

* Zion, by the time Neo finds it, was built and re-built by the previous Five Ones. The Zion in NEUROMANCER, when Case finds it, was discovered by five workers.

*<< In "Neuromancer," the place that Maelcum (and Aerol) is from is called Zion.>>

* Case and Molly are brought forth, by Maelcum, to the “Elders of Zion/Founders of Zion” which may be similar to the Council of Zion in THE MATRIX.

* There’s a prophecy of the Final Days of Babylon which is the destruction of the city of Babylon (similar to the destruction of Zion pre-destined by the machines?). They expected false prophets (prophets? Prophets like the Oracle?) and that Case and Molly would serve as a tool for the Final Days.

* <<Maelcum is a big, "all natural" rastafarian that wouldn't enter the matrix -- much like Tank and Dozer.>>

* <<In "Neuromancer", Maelcum flys a "tug" space-vessel (BatmAngelus note: They are Marcus Garvey and Aerol has the Babylon Rocker)... It's weaponless, and good for hauling people and gear around. Much like the Neb in the Matrix, I suppose.>>

* Case wakes up in “Chiba” in the pouring rain, the place where Armitage took him off the street. It rains in the City of THE MATRIX a lot (when Neo meets Morpheus and when Neo fights Smith in REVOLUTIONS).

* Case finds “Linda” in the arcade, a virtual reality, where she plays Wizard’s Castle against a vampire in a dungeon. (ENTER THE MATRIX anybody?).

* <<In "Neuromancer" the AI "Wintermute" was controlling the lives of a few of the characters via interacting with their electonic appliances, and they didn't really know it; hmm... AI's controlling humans?>>

* At times in the novel, Case heart stops when he’s in The Matrix, but he is still alive!

* Case gets nightmares (like Neo?).

* In one of Case’s dreams, he dreams of destroying a factory of babies, grown in tubes inside the Tessier-Ashpool (his enemy) factory. Is that like the humans grown in the vats, plugged into the Matrix?

* In the same dream, Case hears his fake girlfriend laughing at him five floors above. Does that mean he’s six floors from the top? (significant number 6)

* Case questions if the stuff that Molly puts on him (a fake tan) looks real. This could possibly parallel Neo asking Morpheus what is real and what isn’t.

* Case uncovers a virus with the code of “Reinhold Scientific A.G.” that’s connected to Tessier-Ashpool. Possibly like Reinheart who is a boss of Neo and is connected to the Matrix.

* Case throws up after seeing a hologram (partially caused by the drugs he took). Neo throws up after seeing the fact that most of his life was made up of a lie.

* Case is captured by three policemen (Turings instead of agents). Two of them, Roland and Pierre, look alike. Possible influence on the agents?

* One of the policemen that catches Case is named Roland.

* The police that capture Case speak in French. French villians. Hmm.

* Like many scenes in THE MATRIX, Case is given an important choice. The choice in the novel is: go with the Turings or get arrested.

* Case asks if they have jurisdiction. The term jurisdiction was made fun of in reference to the agents in THE MATRIX.

* Maelcum refers to Dixie as “the ghost.” Possible inspiration for Ghost?

* Molly talks about someone she knew named Johnny. I believe she’s referring to Johnny Mnemonic, who was played in the film by Keanu Reeves (!).

* The villian John Ashpool is an old man with a French accent. Hmm, old French villian....

* Ashpool has one bare foot and another in a slipper. He is also very tall. It kind of reminds me of the Trainman, the tall man with the eyes of different colors.

* A small Braun spider helps guide them with a red LED. The description reminded me somewhat of a Sentinel, which is based more off a squid than a spider. Still, they both have the red LED.

* When Armitage dies, Case sees him in space and imagines his trenchcoat flapping out behind the dead man, spreading out like bat wings. This reminded me of the description of Morpheus climbing up out of the sewers in the ‘96 draft with his trenchcoat spreading around behind him. Also, Val Kilmer was one of the original actors considered for the role of Morpheus and Kilmer played Batman.

* The ninja, Hideo, reminded me somewhat of Seraph. He is a dangerous fighter, yet he is also kind of peaceful (i.e. he apologizes for shooting Maelcum’s arm with an arrow).

* The three villians, Hideo, 3Jane, and Peter Riviera, keep Molly alive, but tortured (i.e. Peter takes out one of Molly’s lenses, Hideo takes out Molly’s leg, etc.) and Case decides not to flee and feels that he should rescue her. This is kind of like THE MATRIX where Morpheus is captured and Neo decides to rescue him.

Any thoughts?


You should read Pattern Recogn. by the same author it is an extension or rather follow up to the book you just mentioned and the things in Pattern Recogn.

If you think you know you have no idea...
Grendelvs

off topic, but...  

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did you really have to quote all of that if your reply was one sentence?

jokersaints.net...
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Some of those are pretty weak, and you missed some obvious ones.

tiger

Re: Symbols in the Matrix & References to existing philo  

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The main character Case, does bear similarities to Neo. He's an expert at hacking and working with computers. He also feels that he doesn't belong. He deals with gangsters. Here, however, the similarities diverge. In many ways, they are alike, but in more ways, they are separate archetypal characters - Neo is painted as "The One," an actual hero come to save the human race. Case, on the other hand, is more of an archetypal antihero. He does not set out to save anyone; he agrees reluctantly to Armitage's terms, and then is acted upon against his own will (the toxin sacs). Through much of the story, he is more of a real, believable person than Neo because of his fallibility, his sweat-stained clothes, his constant chain-smoking, his beard stubble, his drug addictions. Case operates at a gutter level against an existing world that merely acknowledges his presence; Neo exists in a world beyond the gutter, and many people regard him with something approaching reverence. Case is redeemed in the end, but Neo needs no redemption, because he is portrayed as the one doing the redeeming.

In many ways, the gap between these two characters is much wider than the gap between Case and a character like Ridley Scott's Blade Runner, Rick Deckard. Deckard and Case operate on opposite sides of the law, but they are much more similar to each other than Case is to Neo. In fact, there may even be a comparison to make with regard to their view of the law and truth. Case operates on the wrong side of the law, but, at least at the beginning of the story, he is so drug-fried that he seems to no longer care; Armitage's "go-to" profile flatly gives Case a month to live, at most. It seems, in Gibson's words, that Case has been trying to con the street into killing him when he isn't looking. In the same way, Deckard is a disillusioned alcoholic who no longer seems to care what happens to him. And yet, they both seem to find meaning at the hands of a beautiful woman.

The remblances between Morpheus and Armitage are superficial at best. Morpheus has a past , and emotions. He feels pain both emotional and physical. Armitage is incapable of any true strong emotions, because he's literally not a real person. It's only when the Armitage construct begins to break down and Colonel Corto begins to leak through that he shows any sign of humanity. True, they dress similarly, but though there is much more to Morpheus than the way he dresses, so too there is much *less* than that to Armitage.

The contention that Neuromancer contains violence is true in one sense - there are characters with guns, there are street thugs, prostitutes and pimps; there is a general criminal element, which, especially in Night City, is characterized by violence. And yet, it is not violent in the same way that The Matrix is, because there is a fundamental difference in the relationships between the characters and the matrix. To Case, the matrix is a separate reality - one that he loves and is addicted to, to be sure, but one that he is generally easily able to separate from his own waking life. It's only when Wintermute reveals himself in the form of Julius Deane that the matrix takes on the tang of realism that pervades its every aspect in the movie. But Neo begins the movie not even knowing what is real and what isn't - knowing that the matrix exists somewhere, but not even remotely suspecting its whereabouts or its nature. For the most part, Neuromancer concerns itself more with relationships in terms of love, friendship, and betrayal, where the movie tips its hat briefly to the idea that Trinity may be in love with Neo, yet for the most part, concerns itself with the battle, the revolution, the struggle to come between man and machine. There is little of that conflict in the novel, even when Case suspects his motives may be at odds with Wintermute's; Wintermute is like a patient priest attending a penitent, possibly sad that Case is not yet repentant, but more than willing to keep trying. The movie's externalizaion of the matrix, Agent Smith and his cronies, are uniformly hostile to the character, whereas Wintermute takes steps to try and protect Molly and Case. Of course, it could be argued that it does these things in it's own self-interest; it certainly doesn't care enough about Armitage to feel regret over his demise, or guilt over what it perpetrated on Corto.

The assertion that "a character named Finn helps them and he goes on to know so much about the system that they call him "'The Oracle'" is factually incorrect. I own an Adobe Acrobat version of the novel, and a quick search through the file is sufficient to ensure that not only does no-one ever refer to the Finn as "the Oracle," but, in fact, the word "Oracle" never even occurs in the text. But more than that, it seems unlikely that anyone ever *would*. After all, the Finn constitutes little more than a technologically savvy gofer. If he knew so much about the system, he would be a cowboy, like Case. The same can be said about the assertion that users of the matrix in the novel have to strap themselves into their chairs to avoid moving around too much. While this may have been true in the movie, there is much in the novel that actually runs contrary to this. Page 58:

"Armitage seemed to think that zero-g would affect Case’s ability to operate in the matrix. ‘Don’t sweat it,’ Case argued, ‘I jack in and I’m not here. It’s all the same.’
‘Your adrenaline levels are higher,’ Armitage said. ‘You’ve still got SAS. You won’t have time for it to wear off. You’re going to learn to work with it.’
‘So I do the run from here?’
‘No. Practice, Case. Now. Up in the corridor...’

Cyberspace, as the deck presented it, had no particular relationship with the deck’s physical whereabouts..."

There is also a subtle distinction between the kind of death experienced by users of the matrix in the movie versus the characters in the novel. It is the movie's contention that when a user experiences death as a part of his experience in the matrix, in the words of Morpheus, "The body cannot live without the mind" - and therefore the user's body would die as a result. Setting aside the fact that this is a gross misprepresentation of medical science - the body *can*, in fact, live without the mind - consider the difference between the two states. In the novel, the user is projected as consciousness. Page 2:

"...projected his disembodied consciousness into the consensual hallucination that was the matrix."

The braindeaths that occur as a result of the user's projection into cyberspace do not happen as a result of them being "killed" in the matrix. In fact, there is no explanation for why this occurs, in contrast with the explanation given by Morpheus above.

* <<Maelcum is a big, "all natural" rastafarian that wouldn't enter the matrix -- much like Tank and Dozer.>>

There is no reference to any of the Rastafarians being "all-natural" in the novel. Besides that, Tank and Dozer *couldn't* enter the matrix because they didn't have the ports to jack in on the backs of their heads. It's Aerol that wouldn't enter the matrix, not Maelcum, and Aerol's logic for not entering the matrix is entirely different. In the Rastafarian religion, Babylon refers to an oppressive power structure - Aerol's reaction to the matrix highlights his desire to separate himself from the society that his religious order has rejected.


* At times in the novel, Case heart stops when he’s in The Matrix, but he is still alive!

The whole point of these incidents is to point out that he is *not* alive when it happens. His EEG goes flat, meaning he dies braindeath. The significance of these incidents is to show that he has surpassed McCoy Pauley in ability and skill: page 96:

"‘You tryin’ to break my record, son?’ the Flatline asked. ‘You were braindead again, five seconds.’

* In one of Case’s dreams, he dreams of destroying a factory of babies, grown in tubes inside the Tessier-Ashpool (his enemy) factory. Is that like the humans grown in the vats, plugged into the Matrix?

There is no such dream in the book. He does dream of destroying a wasp's nest, but the significance of the dream serves more to highlight the difference between Neuromancer and Wintermute and the "hive mind" nature of Wintermute. Page 147:

"Wintermute was hive mind, decision maker, effecting change in the world outside. Neuromancer was personality. Neuromancer was immortality."

* Maelcum refers to Dixie as “the ghost.” Possible inspiration for Ghost?

No. More likely this is a reference to the classical "ghost in the machine."

There are a lot of other comparisons that are made between the two stories which are, I'm afraid, merely coincidences. While it's true that the movie owes a great debt to Gibson's work, that fact alone can be blamed for these coincidences - but there seems to be little or no symbolic significance to most of them.

tiger

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BatmAngelus wrote:



* The three villians, Hideo, 3Jane, and Peter Riviera, keep Molly alive, but tortured (i.e. Peter takes out one of Molly’s lenses, Hideo takes out Molly’s leg, etc.) and Case decides not to flee and feels that he should rescue her. This is kind of like THE MATRIX where Morpheus is captured and Neo decides to rescue him.

Any thoughts?


If there is any villain in Neuromancer, it is Armitage/Corto. He's the one who almost gets everybody killed and then cracks up in the end when things go wrong. Neither 3Jane nor Hideo are portrayed as antagonists. Peter is a more of a self-interested traitor, like the Matrix's Cypher.

Remember, the whole thing is a heist, orchestrated by Wintermute to merge with Neuromancer. Thus good and evil are relative in the book. Molly would not have considered anyone but Peter her enemy, and Case doesn't seem to hate anyone in the book, ever.

capnsid

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Everyone is forgetting the obvious Neuromancer predecessor, when it comes to sci-fi film similarities: Escape From New York. Hell, there are enough precedents in that film for The Matrix, as well, but I'll just drop the Neuromancer stuff in here and leave.

1. Snake is injected, in the neck, with micro-explosives, lodged in both arteries, with the cores already dissolving/Case is forced to work with Corto?Armitage after being injected, in the neck, with toxin implants.

2.Plissken flew a Gulffire glider over Leningrad, in the war, frow whence he received the nerve gas which robbed him of his right eye, causing significant, permanent pain (EFNY novel); then followed a series of events which led to a crime spree/Corto was blasted down over Helsinki in a microlight, crashing, and taking over a combat chopper, after which he was shot down, reassembled, mentally built-up by Wintermute, then released from the hospital, after which he pulled off a number of heists.

3.Hauk has the same relationship with Plissken that Corto has with Case: antagonistic, invasive, yet they understand each other.

3.Plissken meets two fountain of knowledge-types, a tough-as-nails woman, and the soon-to-be-dead leader of an insane asylum/Case meets The Finn, Riviera, and Molly, and watches Molly confront the head of the insane Tessier-Ashpool clan in their enclosed society. A prison, of sorts.

4.Plissken fights for his life in an arena, during which Maggie and Brain kill The Duke's right hand man, Romero, and two guards watching The President/Case and Molly watch a holographically-enlarged arena deathsport wherein Case's girl, Linda Lee, is tracked down by Wintermute's(?) cronies and killed, with Case nearly biting it, only to be saved by Molly's gun.

5.Plissken's weaponry includes, among other things, shuriken of varying type/Case's favorite weapon is a chrome shuriken, which appears here and there, througout the book, all the way up to The Straylight Run.

6.Molly's boy, Johnny Memory Lane, was killed by the Yakuza, well after they'd thought they were in the clear from stealing Yakuza property (stolen by the yak, in the first place!)/Snake watches his partner get gunned down by the patient and authoritarian Blackbelly Police, after they've escaped with their final big score.

7.Plissken was thrown into prison to save himself/Case was thrown into a prison of his own flesh and eventually saved himself.

8. John Carpenter and William Gibson both have 13 letters in their names. I'm outta here.

SILENCE that ninja bunny!!!

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