»Is Zion real? Matrix 3 changed my mind!«

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knnknn, you should also have something like:

Before I thought Zion was fake, now I'm undecided

Hehe, added. People are always different than one thinks.

The only way it would work (Zion being fake) is if NEO never woke up and did everything out of the matrix in between both worlds. It would still make Zion real but half the movie just something in neo's head. Which is all he needed to do...

But, it's really more simple then that. It's just like it says... Neo breaks the cycle when he saves Zion.

How did Neo break a cycle? He reloaded the Matrix. He should have just gone through the right door and saved us the cost of an extra movie.

Now the remaining humans are in Zion waiting for it to reload so they can have new ships and equipment. Or else they are stuck in that hole.

The cycle is broken.

Before, the machines were constantly, inevitably, trying to destroy Zion once it was "repopulated".

Now, the machines (the Architect) have agreed to let those already free and those who choose to be free to live in peace. The Architect agrees to this in exchange for Neo letting Smith take over his program thus allowing the Architect to delete Smith and "save" the matrix. Neo dies (or does he?)

But, by asking the Oracle "how long will this peace really last" (not sure if thats an exact quote or not), the Architect realizes that eventually the free humans will rebel against machines again (who knows when - someday when they rebuild, maybe decades or centuries) and the peace will be over.

The interesting thing to me is, at the end of the movie, none of the people in Zion woud know about the "deal" that Neo made with the machines. All they saw was that the sentinels suddenly stopped attacking then retreated - they don't know why or if its permanent, etc. Sure they realized Neo must have reached the machine city and saved them, but exactly how they would not know (yet).

I'm also not sure if the "deal" requires them to stay in Zion or if they would be free to move back to the surface. Again, at least for the moment, the people of Zion wouldn't know either way and would probably prefer to stay underground anyways.

Critter

It looks to me as Zion is as real as the Matrix. Even the distinction of MwM doesn't reflect the intention of the Ws. In every situation it mattters how to decide, regardless if in Zion or in the Matrix or at the source. The results of the decisions are effective. How else do you define reality?

But naming Zion as real might be misunderstood to call the matrix as virtual and therefore minor. This sort of evaluation wouldn't fit.

So: Please add the option

Zion is as real as the Matrix or the source.

Just-a-Program wrote:

So: Please add the option Zion is as real as the Matrix or the source.

No. That's would result in too much options. Sorry.

i liked this. i voted for that i was undiecided and now im not i know zion is real....ive been there!

k

This is the point I still have problems with. What is the practical difference between taking the right door in reloaded, and the "peace" that was achieved in revolutions. Critter, you quoted the architect at the end of revolutions in reference to the new found peace being temporary:

Quote:

But, by asking the Oracle "how long will this peace really last" (not sure if thats an exact quote or not), the Architect realizes that eventually the free humans will rebel against machines again (who knows when - someday when they rebuild, maybe decades or centuries) and the peace will be over.

How is this temporary peace different from that resulting from each reboot? The "escalating probability of cataclysmic disaster" still exists in each (even if they are on different time frames for some reason.

If Zion knew that the machines were no longer going to threaten those freed, maybe it would be different (and would not in return pose a threat to the machines). But as you pointed out, how could they know this? (Maybe morpheus' intuition?)

A possible difference is that smith is gone now (which was kind of a side problem to the initial conflict introduced in the first installment). I have a problem with this, because what is to keep another smith phenomenon from emerging again? He was supposedly a natural counterbalance to the equation (to remainder of the sum... inclusive with only type of matrix that actually works, and we assume will still be utilized).

I think ulitmately, the real difference is since those who want to be free can be, perhaps there will be no more agents to enforce compliance (the peace agreement, in contrast to another reload where liberation must be fought for). Also the exiles get to live free now (get to make sunsets instead of staying in hiding to avoid deletion!)