»Eveys Torture?«

Was V justified in torturing Evey. I mean he knew she did not know where is was. Or who he was. All she knew was that he was underground and the color of the stone.

"Every day YOU could have ended it"

Often only when everything in life is stripped away do we find what really matters.

I think that it takes numerous events to get us to a place where we say okay i realize my true purpose. possibly trial and error?

Inevitability wrote:

"Every day YOU could have ended it" Often only when everything in life is stripped away do we find what really matters.

The point is she could not have ended it because she really did not know the location of V.
On another note. What kinda enlight ment can one attain from torture. COnsider thos3e who are innocent and being tortured at Guantanamo.

Red Ghost wrote:

Inevitability wrote: "Every day YOU could have ended it" Often only when everything in life is stripped away do we find what really matters. The point is she could not have ended it because she really did not know the location of V.

V, sounding just like Agent Smith: "Give them something, anything..."

'Thank you. But I want to die behind the chemical sheds.'

Red Ghost wrote:

On another note. What kinda enlight ment can one attain from torture. COnsider thos3e who are innocent and being tortured at Guantanamo.

I guess the answer depends on what you think is more important than life, itself. This is when one's true mettle is tested. All the things one claims or thinks they value is seen for how important they really are.

Now this is a side point:
If the detainees are part of the same breed of "terrorists" as the legendary suicide mission specialists, who believe in giving their lives for their cause, how effective can the military really expect torture to be on them?

And if they are not...what are they doing there?

Coincidence?: Eveys dress in the cell is the same color as those at guantanamo.

Remember the prisoners at Guantanamo are only suspected terrorist. So is there torture justified. And on the terrorist note is it not strange that every day we see suscide bombers bombing Iraqi. How com non in america... we are led to believe that the sucicide bombers operate independently ...

Makes you wonder about alot of things. Like Are they really terrorist. Or is that just a tool of goverment to instill fear. Remeber how Noosefire blamed V for the St Marys Virus.

Quote:

Makes you wonder about alot of things. Like Are they really terrorist. Or is that just a tool of goverment to instill fear. Remeber how Noosefire blamed V for the St Marys Virus.

Exactly. As some of us always say. These ideas put in movies are not new. They are repackaged in order for each successive generation to remain aware of them. For example, did not Hitler do the very same thing?

Red Ghost wrote:

Or is that just a tool of goverment to instill fear.

You got it ...

GhostTrax wrote:

Red Ghost wrote: Or is that just a tool of goverment to instill fear. You got it ...

Good. I'm glad GhostTrax got to see this thread.

Adam Sutler: I want everyone to remember why they need us!

intell wrote:

Adam Sutler: I want everyone to remember why they need us!

And what better way to make people remember why they need those in power, than to scare the crap out of them by staging false flag "terrorist attacks", and then blaming them on V / Osama Bin Laden ...

To know me is to look to a mirror?
This is my explaination... the nine steps to seeing V.
The concept to watch is synchroncity and flow

en.wikipedia.org...

1. COMMITMENT

If there were only one personal attribute we need for V, one that makes everything else possible, it would be commitment: to our own growth and expansion, to our family, to our chosen profession, to truth, and to the greatest whole. With commitment, we say yes to life, and we don’t just mouth the word. We take a stand for our deepest values, and we do everything it takes to live by them….

2. HONESTY

Honesty, like Janus, the Greek god of hearth and home, has two faces: one that looks outward and one that faces inward. Inwardly, as we enter more deeply into V, we seek integration, the coming together of all of our sometimes-conflicting parts into one powerful whole. This requires a solid commitment to identify and break through layers of misconceptions, self-deceptions, emotional scars, limiting and self-sabotaging beliefs, outdated responses, internal conflicts, buried dreams, hopes, and fears—all the accumulated baggage of human existence. We are ruthlessly honest with ourselves, no matter how uncomfortable that may sometimes be. We pursue the truth because we know it will set us free from old wounds that interfere with our experience of V. We question and probe our own inner world to see what’s real, what’s true, and what’s not. The result of this quest for the truth is a deep self-understanding and a peace that can come only when we truly know ourselves…..

3. COURAGE

Courage does not require rappelling across rocky cliffs but rather, day in and day out, overcoming our fears by stepping outside our personal comfort zone, following our intuition, and making ourselves available to the larger plan. It means we transcend our limited self-definitions to be open to new information and stretch beyond the way we’ve always done things in the past. It means we listen within and sometimes turn left when everyone else seems to be going right. It allows us to risk ridicule to create something new, or to risk rejection when we are being true to our sense of what’s right…..

4. PASSION

V is engendered by passion—passion for life, for knowledge, for a cause, for a relationship, for truth. Passion means caring deeply about something beyond ourselves. It means engaging with it at intense levels. It means letting go of self-protective caution to involve ourselves wholeheartedly with what we love…..

5. IMMEDIACY

Living in V means living fully in the present. We don’t hang out in the past rehashing old issues. We don’t hang out in the future trying to second-guess how things will turn out. We settle all of our attention on each interaction, whether it’s washing a dish, making love, attending a meeting, or reading to a child. We are fully engaged in whatever we are doing, and time seems rich and full and resonant and still, all at once. This state of awareness is called immediacy…..

6. OPENNESS

Being ready and willing and available to a wide range of possibility makes the power of V abundant in our daily life. When we are open, we waste little energy in warding things off; we do not erect walls between ourselves and the world. Instead, we embrace whatever develops, for we know that everything we experience has value. Events unfold naturally and effortlessly because, without preconceptions or judgments, without fear or anger, we are willing to do whatever a situation requires….

7. RECEPTIVITY

Being in V means that we are ready to take our part in the unfolding of events. We listen to our inner voice for messages, we observe all that happens around us—especially synchronicity—and we then move in harmony with the moment. But we don’t attempt to control the outcome of those events. Instead, we hold open the space in which potentiality exists. Like a dancer poised in the still moment at the start of a movement, we can go in any direction the music suggests….

8. POSITIVITY

In positivity, we seek out the value in every situation, at every turn, emphasize it, and work actively with it. That’s not to say that we are Pollyannas or blind to the negative potential of a situation; through experience, we’ve learned that in the positive side lies the potential for movement. We believe everything happens for a reason, and that perfection is found in each moment. As a result, we don’t shrink from difficult people or situations or challenges—we move toward them…..

9. TRUST

One thing can switch the experience of V on and off in an instant: trust in V itself…..

to be concluded...

en.wikipedia.org...

Red Ghost wrote:

Coincidence?: Eveys dress in the cell is the same color as those at guantanamo. Remember the prisoners at Guantanamo are only suspected terrorist. So is there torture justified. And on the terrorist note is it not strange that every day we see suscide bombers bombing Iraqi. How com non in america... we are led to believe that the sucicide bombers operate independently ... Makes you wonder about alot of things. Like Are they really terrorist. Or is that just a tool of goverment to instill fear. Remeber how Noosefire blamed V for the St Marys Virus.

I have to chime in on this one. Don't get me wrong; I dislike and disagree w/ alot of what my country/government is doing overseas including the war.

But you ask why the there aren't suicide bombers in America? Shit, your right. They should just come over and start blowing us up. After all, we deserve to die too, right?(sarcasim) There aren't any bombers over here most likely because they couldn't make it over if they wanted to due to all the security. But thanks for the question and compassion.

Its difficult for me to related Bin Laden to V when there are VIDEOS of him talking about killing America/Americans. In the MOVIE we see the behind the scenes and get a look at the true colors of the villans. In REAL LIFE we have only consipiricy theories and judgements.

We're not all bad even though our president is an idiot.

There's something to be said for peace.

Aquin wrote:

But you ask why the there aren't suicide bombers in America? Shit, your right. They should just come over and start blowing us up.

If there are so many terrorists around these days they could be blowing themselves up all over america all the time basically. It can't be that hard to make a bomb, strap it on and go for it.

It's all bullshit.

Aquin wrote:

Its difficult for me to related Bin Laden to V when there are VIDEOS of him talking about killing America/Americans.

It's not about relating Osama to V, it's about governments staging terror attacks and blaming them on someone else, ok.

And if you are talking about the tape where Osama supposedly confessed to being behind 9/11, it has been proven to be fake. He has never taken responsibility for the attacks, but has instead on numerous occasions said that he had nothing to do with 9/11.

And he is not wanted for 9/11 by the FBI, who said "we have no hard evidence connecting Osama Bin Laden to the events of 9/11."

(And just recently Bush was asked by a reporter what Iraq had to do with 9/11, and he said "nothing!")

Edit:

Aquin wrote:

We're not all bad even though our president is an idiot.

Of course not. And Bush is not only an idiot, he's a psychopath and a murderer. But you have to hand it to him, he is damned entertaining.

GhostTrax wrote:

Aquin wrote: But you ask why the there aren't suicide bombers in America? Shit, your right. They should just come over and start blowing us up. If there are so many terrorists around these days they could be blowing themselves up all over america all the time basically. It can't be that hard to make a bomb, strap it on and go for it. It's all bullshit.

Not that I don't doubt it. But what are they waiting for and why haven't there been any reports of it going down? Just because some people might be able to make bombs doesn't mean they are.

but yeah, it is bulshit.

GhostTrax wrote:

Aquin wrote: Its difficult for me to related Bin Laden to V when there are VIDEOS of him talking about killing America/Americans. It's not about relating Osama to V, it's about governments staging terror attacks and blaming them on someone else, ok.

Maybe, but then its a bit hard to take statements like that seriously when there's nothing to back it up other than conspiracy reports. If you guys are so serious and care about American life, then why not take all your reports to national news and have them substantiate it?

GhostTrax wrote:

And if you are talking about the tape where Osama supposedly confessed to being behind 9/11, it has been proven to be fake. He has never taken responsibility for the attacks, but has instead on numerous occasions said that he had nothing to do with 9/11. And he is not wanted for 9/11 by the FBI, who said "we have no hard evidence connecting Osama Bin Laden to the events of 9/11." (And just recently Bush was asked by a reporter what Iraq had to do with 9/11, and he said "nothing!")

I'm actually not sure which particular one I was refering to, seeing that there have been numerous one w/ OBL stating his intense purpose of destroying the west. It just doesn't make any damn sense.

All that along w/ 9/11 whether he had nothing to do w/ it or not. I don't really put much stock in his word about his involvement. But when his point is clear that he wants to destroy the west/America and then some people here write "V/Osama Bin Ladin", it somehow rubs me the wrong way.

GT-Sorry if this offends, but I can't put much stock in conspiracy reports if they're not validated by someone unbiased. And I don't believe everything I'm told.

Aquin wrote:

GT-Sorry if this offends, but I can't put much stock in conspiracy reports if they're not validated by someone unbiased. And I don't believe everything I'm told.

Tell me. Does this include the bs cover story about how a cave fugitive was able to manage getting 19 people halfway around the world to coordinate the hijackings of 4 passenger jets on the same day and fly them into their targets in less than 1 hour and a half, while at the same time the leader of the most technologically advanced military can't seem to <insert here almost anything> in a planned invasion?

Terror is kept on your mind:

intell wrote:

Aquin wrote: GT-Sorry if this offends, but I can't put much stock in conspiracy reports if they're not validated by someone unbiased. And I don't believe everything I'm told. Tell me. Does this include the bs cover story about how a cave fugitive was able to manage getting 19 people halfway around the world to coordinate the hijackings of 4 passenger jets on the same day and fly them into their targets in less than 1 hour and a half, while at the same time the leader of the most technologically advanced military can't seem to <insert here almost anything> in a planned invasion?

Everyone has their slant. I take it all (and I mean it all; i.e. national news, news documentaries, conspiracy reports) with a chunck of salt. But I tend to listen more to those that have been doing jounalism for years like the national media.

I'm not saying the people that pulled off 9/11 weren't creatively dangerous. But I would think that if the conspiracy reports held any water the media would jump on it just to have a breaking and important story about 9/11.

But, no one has. Is that because the reports don't hold water, or the story hasn't reached the right hands?

Intel wrote:

Terror is kept on your mind: news.yahoo.com...

I'm not scared. But like I said, I'm not exactly in league w/ my gov's way of handling things right now.

Intel wrote:

Despite the fact that... GhostTrax wrote: If there are so many terrorists around these days they could be blowing themselves up all over america all the time basically. It can't be that hard to make a bomb, strap it on and go for it. It's all bullshit. Aquin wrote: But what are they waiting for and why haven't there been any reports of it going down? Just because some people might be able to make bombs doesn't mean they are. Right. But how is a car bomber in Iraq a "terrorist"? Who is intended to be terrified by it? An invading force that is armed because...get this...because they expect resistance? C'mon now.

I don't really get what your saying. But maybe to answer what I think you're asking. A car bomber in Iraq is a "terrorist" because they, well, bomb people. Innocent and Armed forces. Who should be terrorized by it? I would think the civilians would be more frightened than the Armed forces. But, while I'm not afraid to die, I'd be pretty nervous walking around there whether I was a civilian or a soldier.

Intel wrote:

Aquin wrote: If you guys are so serious and care about American life, then why not take all your reports to national news and have them substantiate it? Since we can reasonably believe that the media is somehow aware of public opinion and that skepticism in the official story is now being expressed by a significant number, here's a deeper question:

I'm going to have to stop you there. Do you live in America? If so, then you know that none of these conspiracy reports have been given the time of day for some reason. If you do not live here, then you can not reasonably believe that the media is somehow aware of public opinion and skepticism in the official story. By the way, the conspiracy your speaking of is not public opinion. Thats why they call it a conspiracy theory. We are not skeptical about what happened on 9/11, we're skeptical about our leaders and are working on correcting that next election. Now on with the deeper question:

Intel wrote:

If they are serious and/or care about American life and/or lives, why don't they investigate the issue enough to substiate either side?

That would be because they have and the known story is what we have. I'm not trying to destroy your argument, but it doesn't hold up. Its not like Bush gave the media a script to read. This isn't V for V. This is for real. If there's a different story, then someone's going to have to make a case and bring it to the media, since they got it so wrong.

Aquin wrote:

Maybe, but then its a bit hard to take statements like that seriously when there's nothing to back it up other than conspiracy reports.

Dude, governments killing their own people is nothing new.

Aquin wrote:

But I would think that if the conspiracy reports held any water the media would jump on it just to have a breaking and important story about 9/11.

Aquin wrote:

But I tend to listen more to those that have been doing jounalism for years like the national media.

I hope by listening you don't mean that you will believe unsubstantiated conclusions solely on the basis of tenure in the journalism field. No respectable journalist should want you to do so. Ever seen the film, "The Insider"? Why did Al Pacino's character quit?

Aquin wrote:

I would think that if the conspiracy reports held any water the media would jump on it just to have a breaking and important story about 9/11. But, no one has. Is that because the reports don't hold water, or the story hasn't reached the right hands?

Or the reasoning in the first paragraph affects the questions asked / conclusions reached in the second paragraph.

Re: the media uniformity...
The very fact that everyone says basically the same thing should concern you much more than anything said here so far.

Aquin wrote:

If so, then you know that none of these conspiracy reports have been given the time of day for some reason.

Actually, I know the opposite to be true. If you look at the 9/11 thread, you will see that much research has gone into examining the facts at hand, not by a few crack pots here and there but by objective people from various fields of study. Time of day, indeed.

Aquin wrote:

If you do not live here, then you can not reasonably believe that the media is somehow aware of public opinion and skepticism in the official story.

Why? Journalists don't interview people anymore? I don't think I follow you, here.

Aquin wrote:

We are not skeptical about what happened on 9/11, we're skeptical about our leaders and are working on correcting that next election.

Wanna bet? I have been hearing this stuff for a long time and no noticeable changes in foreign or domestic policy have I seen, but if you close your eyes, Mouse said it tastes like you're eating runny eggs.

Aquin wrote:

Its not like Bush gave the media a script to read.

Lmao! That's certainly true. "Misunderestimated" is not a media catch-phrase yet.

Aquin wrote:

If there's a different story, then someone's going to have to make a case and bring it to the media

What case has been made for the "official version" they accepted and reported?

GhostTrax wrote:

And you know, you don't have to be named Mohammed, have a beard and be muslim to be a terrorist, despite what fox news says.

Right. Listen to FawkesNews.

GhostTrax wrote:

You know, when "terrorist groups" do something, they are usually pretty keen on saying "hey, we did it!"

That's why it's done. The deed is supposed to inspire fear, so that you know who's demands need to be met or who to fear pissing off.

GhostTrax wrote:

Have you read the interviews with Osama where he says that killing innocent women and children is, eh, not his thing, and that he has nothing against americans in particular, only the system itself?

Not that I believe these either but it makes you pause to wonder where the lie is and why you believe either message.

What Evey went through was needed for her to fully understand what V was really all about. I think his reaction to her telling the bishop about him says it all.

Evey in that scene.
Evey, when she thought she was about to be executed.
See the difference?

V's pretence during the "torture".
Treatment of prisoners of war at Guantanemo.
See the difference?

Movies depicting US POW's in Vietnam.
US actual violation of the Geneva Convention at present.
See the simularity?

intell wrote:

Not that I believe these either but it makes you pause to wonder where the lie is and why you believe either message.

Yeah, but he did say to several magazines that he had nothing to do with 9/11, that information was supressed.

But one blurry tape where he supposedly admits everything is conveniently found in Kandahar.

So what happens?

The media of course go with the tape and never mention that he in fact denied being behind 9/11 and voila, the real perpetrators have their supervillain to blame everything on and to scare the people with.

Right. And so many supposed tapes he makes. All this film work and no one can trace it to find him?

If any one of you wanna make an easy mil. Go to Afghanistan and look for the Hollywood-style movie set...lol.

intell wrote:

Right. And so many supposed tapes he makes. All this film work and no one can trace it to find him?

It's very odd that such a slick and illusive organisation like al-Qaeda leaves all these different trails everywhere lol!