»Understand the choice?«

I think some people, including myself, have written that the in the Chamber scene, Neo has to make a choice, as this is the true nature of the anomaly and so on blablabla...

I would like to throw in another idea here.

Matrix Reloaded wrote:

Oracle: What happens when you go through the door? Neo: I see Trinity, and something happens, something bad. She starts to fall, and then I wake up. Oracle: Do you see her die? Neo: No. Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time. Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her? Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand. Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies? Oracle: No. You've already made the choice, now you have to understand it. Neo: No, I can't do that. I won't. Oracle: You have to. Neo: Why? Oracle: Because you're The One.

Now what could that mean? One way to interpret it would be that in the chamber of the Architect, Neo does not really make a choice. Because he already made it. It is already a fact what door he will take. Therefore, The One it not necessary any more to make that choice. The choice-element is already included in the code that Neo carries. But this is not the problem. The problem is not choice itself. The problem is to understand that choice. And the Architect canot understand any choice.

So to be able to balance the equation / eliminating the sum of the remainder/ or whatever The One has to do, it is necessary that Neo understands that choice.

Now that would also explain why the Architect mentioned Trinity. As she is part of the choice Neo has made, she has to be included into this scene.

But this also raises a few questions for me.

1. When did Neo understand his choice? In the chamber?

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2. Take those lines:

Quote:

Oracle: No. You've already made the choice, now you have to understand it. Neo: No, I can't do that. I won't.

What do they mean? That neo does not want to understand the choice? Or that he knows that the choice he made, will kill Trinity? I don't get these lines. They imply that Neo's choice is to take the door to the Source.

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3. Take these lines

Quote:

Oracle: You have to. Neo: Why? Oracle: Because you're The One.

What does that mean? Does it mean that Neo has to understand the choice ("You have to" - Oracle), or that he has to let Trinity die and go back to the Source? What is the Oracle reffering to?

If she is right and Neo has already made the choice (and we all know what choice that is), then I don't understand the line ("No, I can't do that. I won't." - Neo). This line only would make sense if he had choosen not to rescue her / go back to the Matrix.

Could somebody please enlighten me here and give me some answers? How do you understand these lines and their meaning?

Or are the Oracle and Neo both wrong? Do they both think that Neo's choice is to let Trinity go and go back to The Source? This would explain what is said in this scene. But then the Oracle would be terribly wrong with her pridiction here.

Quote:

Oracle: You have to. Neo: Why? Oracle: Because you're The One.

Or what does she want to say with these lines?


I'm confused

Neo made the choice long ago that he wants Trinity and nothing else.

Trinity: "they need you (as the savior)"

Neo, actually not really carrying: "I need you!"

At any cost and beyond every authority he wants to behold his connection with Trinity.

But he doesn't understand why. Why would he risk the extinction of the entire human race just because he wants to maintain a connection with one girl?

I think the answer is quite simple...

Every human being is (or has a great potential to be) a tremendous ego-ist. Almost everybody does something because it primarely makes them feel better and not someone else.

Even people who do social and volunteered work have a (perhaps subconscious) egoistic motivation for it.

Why do we have a relationship? To have sex? To feel that you are important for someone? To give meaning to your life? Because it gives us a temporal euphoric experience? There is always a motivation that is based upon a (deep) egoistic need.

Now this is on itself not really a problem. The real problem is that humans do not want to be honest about this. They will always deny that they did this and that because of their ego: they live in a lie, they supress their darkside like it never exists --> "Denial is the most predictable of all human responses"

Now Smith represents the darkside, Neo's ego...

Neo's love for Trinity was so deep and euphoric that he chose to save her instead of the human race. This was an egoistic act, so it indeed allowed his ego (Smith) to literally grow!

This choice eventually led to Neo truly facing his darkside and acknowledging his ego. During the super burly brawl he gets to know his egoistic side ("you do not truly know someone untill you fight them") and after this Neo realized that there is only one way to achieve true enlightment: accepting and embracing your ego, your darkside in full honesty. That's really the only way to live a healthy and peacefull live (read: have a stable Matrix) : knowing your darkside and lightside ("Know Thyself") and keep them in balance on a very conscious level.

It also proofs us that egoistic acts aren't neccesarily evil. Egoism is needed to make mistakes, learn from them and then face new temptations with greater strength and wisdom.

Very good Mobil, and in true Star Trek theme

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Egoism is needed to make mistakes, learn from them and then face new temptations with greater strength and wisdom.

A simple sentence explaining more or less the post.

I didn't think about Star Trek at all. I don't really know that.

But thanks anyway

Quote:

I don't really know that

I will give you an example:

Spock: Captain, I have a idea if we rerouted the laser defragmenter gun and shoot that thing. We could make it expolde
Kirk:Like putting to much air in a balloon

and no problem

LOL All I ever remember is indeed Spock and those females walking around in tight suits.

I am not really into space and science fiction. Only the Matrix offcourse but that might not be so much science fiction if we look at what our technoligy is going to.

Quote:

I am not really into space and science fiction

Me neither, except Futurama, which that quote is from

Thanks for your explanation, Mobile. Especially the part about facing his dark side. While I agree with you what Smith represents, I actually am still wondering where he is coming from...

Letting the technical and symbolical characteristics of Smith overlap each other is difficult but it is possible. Let me try it...

It's a bit long, but I think you will understand if you read all of it

Neo, as 'the One', carries the anomalous code. With this code he can do two things:

-Destroy the Matrix

According to the Prophecy which Morpheus advertizes to Neo, the ultimate goal of the One is to destruct the Matrix.

I think that Neo (subconsciously) knows that with the destruction of the Matrix he will kill all the bluepills. And even if he doesn't know this then he still knows that they can never give shelter to billions of people when they shut down the Matrix.

This little fact is being supressed back into the subconscious mind, because Neo and especially Morpheus don't want to think about this 'side effect'. All they want is to beat the machines and win the war.

-Balance the equation, followed by a system reset

Neo doesn't know this at all. He only knows this when he listens to the Architect. The machines want him to do this badly, because it is the most rational thing to do.

Now let's talk about Smith...

Smith is a sentient program. He is a program that is very integrally connected to the Matrix. I mean, he has to be, because he can 'sense' people that are experiencing a shock and he can travel through the Matrix and enter any blueplill he likes.

So we can conclude for sure that Smith has a connection with the system that is the Matrix.

Smith works for and together with the Matrix system and eliminates anomalies.

Neo is the sum of all troublesome anomalies: he is a super anomaly. For Smith, Neo is the manifestation of all that is irrational and weak about humanity: human behavior is not logical, rational and disciplined; which Smith defines as weak.

So a clash between the two is inevitable for a fact.

When they clash, Neo does not only inprint code on Smith, he also gives Smith his darker side, because he simply doesn't want it.

Let me explain that a little more. Once Neo fully realizes that he is really the One (this is when he stands up after being shot), he subconsciously also realizes that he is somehow responsible for all of humanity. I mean, he is the savior and something is expected from him; he is only more than afraid of what this might be.

Like I said above, Neo subconsciously doesn't want this heavy burden on his shoulders. He wants to enjoy the euphoric feeling of both his love for Trinity and the fact that he has now started the battle to winning the war.

So symbolically he wants to supress his darker side, his side that potentially could destruct the whole Matrix and with it all of mankind. This supression is symbolized in the clash with Smith. Together with the code (technical explanation for Smith's powers), he also gives Smith his ego-side (symbolical explanation for Smith's actions).

Now Smith, still instructed by his deepest parameters (call it karma if you like), wants to eliminate the anomaly. He is going to perform the most rational solution in dealing with the anomaly, thus dealing whith humanity altoghether: kill them! --> "purpose of life is to end" --> when humanity is gone, the anomaly is gone.

Smith is actually a perfect expression of the machine's reaction to the anomaly. The machines cannot eliminate the anomaly as the Architect said, but they wish they could. The only way to really let the anomaly go away is to shut the Matrix down and that is exactly what Smith was going to cause: he is the part of 'the One' that can cause the crash.

Neo is the part of 'the One' that can stop the crash when he complies to the resetting of the Matrix.

Both sides of 'the One' did not finish their task. Instead they joined together and cancelled each other out: creating perfect balance and a natural solving of the anomaly.

I mentioned the word "subconsciously" alot in this post, but that is exactly what it is about...

In M2 Neo absolutely doesn't understand what Smith is. He feels the connection ("it's his subconscious dark side whispering in his head, but he ignores it, he is afraid to get to know it, let alone face it!")

In M3 Neo gets more and more enlightened and only at the very end he begins to realize what Smith is and what he has to do to stop him: get to know him and embrace him. The full enlightment of the mind that is called Neo. The path of "Know Thyself" has been fully completed, so the anomaly is solved.

Bravo, that's good stuff.

Mobile, this is a really great explanation. I will keep that in mind when watching the movies the next time.

In the meantime, let me post a quote that supports your view regarding Neo's 'egoism':

Matrix Revolutions wrote:

Rama-Kandra: No, it is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies. I see that you are in love. Can you tell me what you would give to hold on to that connection? Neo: Anything. Rama-Kandra: Then perhaps the reason you are here is not so different from the reason I am here.

I never saw this from the viewpoint of egoism before. but it makes perfect sense.

i rember that and undertood what it ment

I have one question for you all, to wit: How can Smith represent Neo's "darkside" when he obviously predates Neo and his apparent turning point begins before Neo apparently becomes the One?

Neo becomes The One at the end of M1 (-> resurrection). At this point of time, he also 'destroys' Smith. But something happened when Neo did that... something that changed Smith. So in fact, Neo first becomes The One and then Smith is changed. Or did I miss something?

intell wrote:

I have one question for you all, to wit: How can Smith represent Neo's "darkside" when he obviously predates Neo and his apparent turning point begins before Neo apparently becomes the One?

Smith is the opposite for the reason that he is fighting or destroying the very thing that neo is fighting for.

But also in saying that, smith is trying to get free from the matrix just like Neo is.

Neo is Good, while Smith is Evil.

Mobil ave, i just have to say what a f*&k'n theroy.

Thanks guys for all of your compliments. It means alot to me that you guys enjoy my theories.

Some reactions...

Gh0st_pure soul wrote:

i rember that and undertood what it ment

What kind of respect do you have? First you use an avatar I created without even thanking me for it.

Now you crash a nice theory-thread with such a stupid remark and you don't even spell it right.

Neo1 wrote:

Neo is Good, while Smith is Evil.

Not neccesarily. It depends on what you believe.

Smith talks about evolution in M1. Evolution is about killing the weak so that they cannot spread on. You could see this as a 'nice' thing of nature. Instead of letting the weak suffer, they are exterminated.

Smith is so dissapointed in the fact that the machines keep coping with these weak humans that he also begins to see the Machine World as weak, thus wanting to destroy it all.

Oracle: "...but I believe he won't stop there; he can't. He won't stop until there's nothing left at all."

This is still a perfect expression of the machines' view on the anomaly, because we all know that the human 'virus' of disobedience has also infected the Machine World resulting in all those exiles.

Smith is also the extreme of a human ego: thinking that he is better, that he stands above all and is supreme: that he is the goal of evolution (Hitler?).

(hmm, maybe when Smith said "the future is our time" in M1, they might have hinted towards his future multiple form?)

Smith is the supressed agression that is inside all of us. We are derived from animals and we cannot shake off our instincts so neither our agression.

Smith is the yin-factor of humanity. Humanity, how beautiful it might be, also has a grusome side. It is needed for the death-and-rebirth circle and it is part of life.

Neo shook of this yin-side when he jumped into Smith. This is also expressed in the movies, because before he jumps into Smith he kills 'innocent' bluepills without thinking a minute about it. I mean, these are men with families!

After he jumped into Smith he doesn't kill blue pills anymore, he only knocks them out when it's neccesary.

Smith is needed, just like Neo is needed: true yin-yang, like all of our bodies and minds are a yin-yang system.

The path of "Know Thyself" is about getting to know your own yin-yang system, getting to know your own mind.

Just like you can only escape from a prison by knowing the ins and outs of the building, you can only truly free and control your own mind if you know all the ins and outs.

This getting to know your own mind also includes getting to know your negative side. And what is so hard about that? Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes. Try to be honest to yourself. Only if you truly know your negative characteristics, you can work on it to make them become more positive.

So, conclusively, it's all about Neo being both good and evil at the same time and being confused about it.

It's about Neo's internal conflict...

Smith: "I want exactly what you want. I want everything."

Smith wants to destroy the Matrix, the Machine City and Zion (in the form of Bane).

Neo wants to save the Matrix, the Machine City and Zion; he only doesn't realize this yet because his egoistic side is blocking it. That's why Smith is literally standing in the hallway: trying to block him from further enlightment.

Thats true. Smith is Neo's better half or should i say his worst half.

In saying that i see smith in the scene that he doesn't care, could let things go to hell sort of speaking. but you know what i mean. because when i first saw Neo, i got the impression that. He was a guy that was in it for himself. couldn't care about anyone else.

Which seemed to me ironic. here is a guy that, doesn't care but now has to care inorder to save the world..

So i think this is what also could have been imprinted onto smith in the hallway as well.

Indeed

GREAT posts Mobil_Ave_Neo

Thank you sir!