»The theory that makes the most sense is the...«

one that is easiest to explain in relation to the plot. most of the elaborate theories in this forum would not make for a good movie. most of you are taking these things to an extreme that would not translate well onto the big screen. i think the plot will take the path that everyone expects it to (zion is in the real world and in the end the humans and machines work out a truce or the humans win outright). i hate to disappoint all of you out there with your inventive (even though some of them are off the wall) theories, but most likely this movie will follow the path of least resistance in regards to the story. i don't think the movie is going to end with neo waking up from a dream or some of the other crazy stuff being thought up by you people.

Not all 'US PEOPLE' share that view ~ I've never thought for one minute that Neo was dreaming ~ Some of 'US PEOPLE' on this site have had some really good ideas and have done alot of research in to the allegory behind the story, perhaps you ought to look a little deeper and see just how deep the rabbit hole goes......

lol, I came up with that Dream theory, COULD it happen, yes. WILL it happen, probably not, but you have to admit, I produced a pretty good argument that would support it.

*Considering that the trainman / kid thing must be explained in Revolutions
*Considering that the movie is full of fighting sequences
*Considering that Neo has to fight the way thru to the machine god
*Considering that after he has spoken to the god he has to fight Smith

There is really hardly time nor space to explain that Zion is fake.

remeber that this is a movie and there is a limited amount of time so you can't make the story too complicated. and by the way i was not saying that all the theories and ideas are off the wall. hell i spend a good amount of time here and if anything they do make for a good conversation. all i was saying is don't get your hopes up for anything like that to actually happen.

Da_IcE wrote:

..., but most likely this movie will follow the path of least resistance in regards to the story.

uhhh.... Have you been watching the movies. All they have been doing is following the path of resistance. The movie is TITLED "revolutions" for a reason. Think about all the information we got just out of the first movie, do you honestly think that the final film of this trilogy will just be mindless 2.5 hours of fighting. And although most of M2 seemed like a kung fu movie, the 5 minutes of dialog between Neo and the Architect proved to be the biggest plot resistance to date, which has flipped our thoughts around, causing queries regarding Zion itself. Da_IcE, the thing that makes these movies great is that they are thought-provoking. The first one didn't really leave us with many questions about the future of the Matrix, we all assumed that that was the end, or the beginning of the end, but it still inspired thought. And Reloaded.... well.... I think we've all proven that it left questions unanswered when you see us all scrambling for trailers, pausing frames to find some detail which can give us an insight into the final installment. Point being, these theories are what make the movie so great. As far as time constraints..... Keanu did say that the movie would leave us with questions. Perhaps that means they won't spoon feed us at the end, that they are going to be ambiguous much like they were with the end of M2.

Although you've gotta be totally right about making sure a plot is made that would translate well to the screen is going to be the studio's greatest priority and some idea's are getting to be quite exessive (or just plain shit-Neo waking up from a bad dream etc...), there's gotta be more to the plot than what you have suggested. I mean these guys have spent years working on this story, and with all the cultural and religious conotations flying around, as well as the studio hype, wouldn't it suck a little if REVOLUTIONS just ended with a truce? Where's the fun in that? I'm betting it's not going to be quite as lame, but if Neo does just wake up, screw it, I'm boycotting the movies forever.

See below

The point is quite well taken that the Hollywood powers would not finance a movie they could not understand. And given that some of the powers are not too bright - as proven by the garbage that they "green light" and then they wonder why nobody shows up at the theaters - the plot cannot be too complex.

Remember all the complaints about Brian De Palma's Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise? I thought it was not hard to follow at all, but then Jay Leno says he wants to invite Tom Cruise on to his show to explain "what was happening in that movie"!

David Lynch's Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive have mystical plots that cannot be explained "simply" or with Aristotelian logic and they tanked at the box office. This is remembered in Hollywood! Lynch goes to France for his financing now!

On the other hand the "Dallas Solution" had better be avoided as well: it's all a dream?! If the Brothers Wachowski don't want to be "lynched", they had better not even dream of that!

So I agree that we will probably see a rather straight-forward showdown between Man and Matrix in Revolutions , but that we will see a few surprises that perhaps nobody has yet thought of here or on other forums. (e.g. perhaps the entire Matrix culture is taking part on just part of the planet, and there are other more normal civilizations progressing on other continents: perhaps the majority of the human race has left to colonize the moons of Jupiter or other galaxies and the Matrix-world somehow evolved out of schemes to transport the human race to another galaxy as computerized DNA emulations.)

The twists in Revolutions therefore could lie outside of the main story line, yet still provide surprise and interest and depth.

I totally agree about everything SJ says. Hollywood is stupid! And when I first watched Reloaded I thougth to myself: Oh no, they Hollywoodized it This thought echoed when the Rave scene was on and during almost every fighting scene in the movie (especially with the Seraph fight). But, after much discussion, I believe that there is some underlaying reason to all the mindless asswhooping. I just hope this fanatic Matrix audience won't be disappointed with a "whoa, it was all a dream" story (not unlike Mullholand drive).

Loki wrote:

...making sure a plot is made that would translate well to the screen is going to be the studio's greatest priority...

Ok a couple of points here.

It was written specifically for the big screen and so it's not the same problem as an adaptation from a book or a play.

When WB took on the matrix, they were hesitant. The Brothers had a trilogy to sell, WB didn't want to chance it on the set and decided to see how the first one went.

Unlike many writers, the Brothers were totally involved with the production at every level. Nothing happened on the Matrix without their say so.

WB had a few reservations about parts of the film, but the brothers managed to convince them it was the way to go.

The result,

The Matrix was WB's briggest grossing film in the history of the company.

I don't think WB is gonna try to change a formula like that.

The Film will be seen pretty much as it was intended.

This is also why you won't be seeing a Director's cuts of the movies. The ones we get ARE the directors cuts.

For me the discussion of a Matrix within a Matrix, although interesting is not the most relevant. The final part of the trilogy could in theory have been written either way, some questions would need to be cleared up more than others, but it could be done. Personally I quite like the neatness of the previous versions being levels of the Matrix on top of each other. But either way this does not effect what I consider the main principle of the film - Neo's journey.

i dont like the "Neo is a program notion". I agree that by analysing the script you can draw some conlcusions toward this, however, it is not correct. Neo is Human - get used to it!
For me the film is a metaphor for the "upward" journey of wisdom/knowledge/hope/determination in Neo's mind, it would be a great shame if the fantastic representations of this metaphor in films 1 & 2 are undermined by a pointless twist in the 3rd film.

I will eat my hat if neo is a progam! (And its a big hat!)


If in reloaded he is able to strike a deal then he has defeated the system - in one way the machines are not the enemy - its the system created by them that is the enemy.

This is analagous to our real world - we have a system which we created, and it isnt very fair to all human beings - many people fight against this system - to beat this system would not mean slaughtering every human being on earth - to beat the system would be to remove system with wisdom, to strike a new deal between everybody.


I also dont think that it is necessary to try and litterally explain things like how Neo sees Trinity falling before it happens:

As we already know "the one" has the ability to control the Matrix as he see's fit. In other words - as Neo's Wisdom grows he has more and more ability to control his destiny i.e. the ability to "shape" his future.

Couple this with Morpheus's quote in the first movie:

"there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"

And then you can intepret images like Trinity as Neo "knowing the path". This image is a problem for Neo, he doesnt understand it, and it manifests itself as a nightmare.

Now take the oracles quote in reloaded:
"we can never see passed the choices we do not understand".

Up until the point when Neo actually catches Trinity he did not understand this image - he just knew this formed a moment in his "path" perhaps you could describe it as a metaphorical milestone.

consider the Oracles comment: "you are looking at the world without time now neo"

Now, if you discount time as being the primary driver on a metaphorical "path". Then its not that he understands the image after he has caught her but the exact moment he catches her represents neo understanding how to walk his "path". the milestone in time and understanding are co-incendent. (we could also talk here about "reason" there is a reason for this event......)

Milestones represent the bringing together of knowing and walking the path, almost like a test, each one is there for a reason, once understood neo moves forward to the next step on his inner journey.

my thoughts why Smith is such a main character then:

In my opinion Neo is totally human and is the anomoly - Smith is a program but is becoming more "humanised" throughout the adventure. The path neo is following is shaping the matrix around himself, this is having the greatest effect on smith. i will try and explain:

I think maybe the part of neo that ws copied or printed onto smith in M1 was neo taking the opportunity to "shed" some "dirty" or evil part human code while destroying smith, (like the part of the code the architect speaks of inherent in every human being).

This could make sense because Neo would actually be taking the opportunity to send this part of the code back to the source with smith.

(The obvious metaphor here is Neo being a hacker)

In effect by the end of of the M1 Neo had taken a step towards the purest kind of thought.

Instead of returning to the source Smith thrived on this new part of the code - combine his original programme single minded, powerfull, destructive, bounty hunter with the human code Neo didn't want (I expect this would include ego, envy, greed) then you have a total meglomaniac.

The reason why Smith his so important is because he is basically Neo's "alter-ego". This idea would work in some ways with Neo not just blasting everything away at the end of M3 (as posted above). If he is able to make an agreement with Smith to end the inprosonment of mankind he is actually "taming" or even winning over this bad side. (metophorically HIS bad side or even the "DARK SIDE" of humanity)

thats the way i look at it anyway - and I love it!

It almost inevitable that the matrix will still maintain intact after revolutions, as there is a game called The Matrix Online that is based after the movies end.

Its that simple. Humans do not win.