»the problem is choice....«

ok, tell me if this makes sense.... the matrix is a simulated world/computer program to keep human under control. now, if it was simply a virtual world for all to live in, imagine the amount of variables involved with each and every person connected to the matrix....if this person is here at this time then this has to occure, and if that happens then this will occure thus affecting this.... etc. the matrix would have to constantly udjust to each person 'choice'. so, the architect per-determined everyones path. this person will do this, at this time, and this will happen, thus affecting this....and so on. but that didn't work, not enough humans accepted that, so the mother of the matrix came up with a solution whereby 99.9% of subjects accepted the program....choice, even if they were only aware of it on a subconsciouse level, and thereby controllable. Morpheus: do you believe in fate, neo? Neo: no. Morpheus: Why not? Neo: because i don't like the idea that i'm not in control of my life. Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean.... thusly, this is why choice will cause 99.9% of people to accept the program, but also cause the contradictory "systemic anomaly", i.e., The One., which also had to be controlled, hence the oracle and the profacy. make sense? mumbo jumbo? you tell me....

yes....thats why morpheus says that...."i know exactly what you mean"....he knows that humans believing they have 'free will' is just another control method. morpheus doesnt come out and say...."you really have no choice" because its evident that neo(thomas) kinda knows that already.

i believe that is one of the main themes from the films. look around(in this 'world'),all people ,with the exception of a small percentage, do the same things. most people react exactly the same. most people want the same things. most responses are pre-programmed and the majority of 'humanity' accept these responses without ever thinking about them.

the only real choice we all have is to wake up. the blue pill or the red pill. if one chooses to remain asleep then one really doesnt realize they are even asleep unless they 'saw the matrix' and couldnt handle it. but one has to consciously choose to break free from the parasitic nature of emotions,habits,routines and attachments.

In my opinion Mirovingian had a better point:

"Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without"

And there is really no way around that...

...surely(in the films) the matrix doesnt want everyone to wake up but im sure it knows that some will. the one thing the matrix cannot replicate or program is imagination. this is why neo does things that 'dumbfound' the program. this is also why the matrix uses humanitys 'primative cerebrum' to control them. the reptilian brain only knows rational responses while the other parts of the brain(right side) are known for creativity and imagination. when one stops listening to the 'reptile' then one can outsmart the program and anticipate things within that program thus leading to the freedom. this all certainly applies in this 'reality' as we know it.

[quote=jeffshag"]... anticipate things within that program thus leading to the freedom. this all certainly applies in this 'reality' as we know it.[/quote]

What is freedom?
Zion? Don't make me laugh...

And also, Neo doesn't anticipate crap. How many times did we hear: "we have been expecting you Neo", "I've been waiting for you Mr. Anderson" etc... While Neo didn't anticipate any of his misfortunes...

..but let me rephrase that. i believe, the only choice thomas anderson actually made was to take the red pill or become his 'other self',neo. i believe if he took the blue pill he wouldve 'woke in his bed and believed whatever he wanted to believe'. either way,whether or not one chooses the blue or red pill, one is still guided. but thats the choice all of us ,and neo have/had. the only choice available is to wake up and if one doesnt choose that then one will be guided by the same programmed responses thus leading to and endless cycle of repeptiveness and despair. we all have two lives. we can choose which one we would like to lead.

Even if the choice exists (which I doubt) not everyone is presented with the option of choosing...
The choice is also flawed. You can only pick red pill or blue pill. What about a green pill of some sort... Well there is no green pill, because Morpheus doesn't want you to have the option of knowing the truth and staying in the matrix...

Again, "Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without"...
Morpheus has some power, he is ofering the "choice", but he is also the one imposing the limitations on your decisions...

i believe no matter how 'programmed','brainwashed' or 'conditioned' one is, there is always that 'loophole' there to escape. now,whether or not 'morpheus' doesnt want you to have the option of knowing,not everyone will buy what 'he' sells. things are imposed on those that dont understand their true predicament.

So let me ask you this:

The only way to screw the Morpheus and go back to the Matrix was to betray him and try to strike a deal with agents...

Can you think of any other ways?

So let me ask you this:

The only way to screw the Morpheus and go back to the Matrix was to betray him and try to strike a deal with agents...

Can you think of any other ways?
well,if thomas anderson really didnt wanna 'know what the matrix is' then he wouldnt have taken the red pill and wouldve gone back home asleep. but since he did take it then his 'destiny' was set. if he had not taken the red pill then someone else wouldve fulfilled the role of the 'one'. i believe anyone couldve done what neo did. i believe that what we have here is one of the greatest tricks pulled by the wac. bros. or whomever actually wrote the script. we have once again been forced fed this notion of a 'savior of humanity'. "it was all another system of control" as neo said. the notion of a savior says....' i am weak and can sit back and do nothing cuz im gonna get saved'. morpheus only believed neo was the 'one' because he was told neo was the 'one' and accepted it.

well,if thomas anderson really didnt wanna 'know what the matrix is' then he wouldnt have taken the red pill and wouldve gone back home asleep. but since he did take it then his 'destiny' was set. if he had not taken the red pill then someone else wouldve fulfilled the role of the 'one'. i believe anyone couldve done what neo did. i believe that what we have here is one of the greatest tricks pulled by the wac. bros. or whomever actually wrote the script. we have once again been forced fed(at least the ones that do accept it) this notion of a 'savior of humanity'. "it was all another system of control" as neo said. the notion of a savior says....' i am weak and can sit back and do nothing cuz im gonna get saved'. morpheus only believed neo was the 'one' because he was told neo was the 'one' and accepted it.

No, but if you are like Cypher and want to go back to the matrix... Do you really have a choice? Do you have a choice when you accept the red pill? You are leaving all of your choices at the door... You have none left... Zion owns you...

i get what you are saying and some of this is just to darn complicated. haha. well, there is something else that ive always thought of,or rather, ever since i began my 'search' way before the films came out and things ive learned from the films. as some believe,like myself, the films are metaphorical but the real message is in there,no doubt. perhaps,cypher was searching for something beyond what most think he actually did. perhaps he even felt something was wrong with the 'real world' and the matrix was closer to another 'real world' that was never actually explained in the films. perhaps even beyond what some call 'god' is another infinite 'reality' that can be transcended. maybe cypher knew more or felt more than what was hinted at and thats why he tried to 'betray' morpheus. cypher didnt want the matrix changed because he felt maybe there was something more to it. with me so far? lol. now, i equate alot of the matrix and my own experiences to the works of carlos castaneda. after all,it was my experiences that led me to see what carlos wrote about. now,in those books the shamans call the 'source' or 'god' or the 'void'....the eagle. and they say that the ultimate feat is to actually....'sneak past the eagle to infinity'. sneak past 'god'? why settle going right to the 'source' when one can find another 'option'? now, they say the return to the 'eagle' is inevitable but not right away. "to die and be eaten by the eagle is no challenge.on the other hand, to sneak around the eagle and be free is the ultimate audacity". i really feel that cypher had another 'splinter in his mind' and was searching for something real deep;something perhaps which is the underlying theme.

It is interesting that you are quoting Carlos Castaneda...
I will never forget one of his quotes:
"God doesn't love you, believe me"...

I think that Cypher is the most human character in the movie...
He sees the futlity of the Zionists... He hates being miserable...
He needs to escape...

omega wrote:

I think that Cypher is the most human character in the movie... He sees the futlity of the Zionists... He hates being miserable... He needs to escape...

Good point...I think that Cypher's emotions and attributes mirror many of those posessed by Smith.

Good point.

I like Smith for one major reason: Humor...
He is the only one who has it in the movie...

Even though he's not really in the movie, Sparks I thought was the funniest.

I don't know who that is...