»Official Seraph Information!«

Thats right people- you heard it here first from your very own Akshat Gupta. Official information about Seraph from the Matrix Online website.

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Pearl Phoenix Dojo The Pearl Phoenix is located at the edge of Jurong, just at the border of what would be considered Harajuku. Although the dojo often appears empty or deserted, it is meticulously maintained for the very special students who occasionally train there. The Pearl Phoenix is the province of an exile by the name of Master Zu -- a name you may not know yet. Though no one can be sure, it is rumored that Zu is the exile who instructed Seraph in the art of combat when he originally came to the Matrix. Of course Seraph did not work for the Merovingian at the time; that came later. It is certainly one of the more...unusual stories I have heard, and I am dubious of the more exotic details, but there is no denying the prowess of an exile like Seraph.

What this means-

1. Interesting dojo. Is it the same one in which Neo fought Seraph in Reloaded?
2. This means Seraph is indeed an exile as spelled out by this excerpt. Congrats to all who believed this.
3. Seraph `came' to the Matrix. This is what bothers me a bit. I always thought that Seraph was a pure-program who always lived in the Matrix. This seems to indicate that Seraph was a machine-program and lived in that heaven before descending to the Middle Earth of the Matrix.
4. Seraph did indeed work for Merv. But there was a period in between when he was on his own. Much like many other exiles.

Discuss!

A good thing would have been to give a direct link to the article.
thematrixonline.warnerbros.com...

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The Pearl Phoenix is located at the edge of Jurong

Interesting to see that Jurong is a place where the exiles who desire to be left alone, or who could not enter a gang, were hidding.
If Seraph was in the area, his lone behavior would fit with that place.

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2. This means Seraph is indeed an exile as spelled out by this excerpt. Congrats to all who believed this.

Oh because you had doubts about that fact ? Every time I think your lack of knowledge reached the bottom, you still manage to go deeper.
Why would Smith be chasing Seraph if he was a legal program ? <sigh>. Why would Seraph be working for Merv if he had a higher authority there ?

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3. Seraph `came' to the Matrix. This is what bothers me a bit. I always thought that Seraph was a pure-program who always lived in the Matrix.

Told you but you treated me like shit when I said that. Maybe is it time that you question your behavior. Neo said that he was from the machine world and the golden code was another proof. Did you ever watch that movie, Mister know-it-all ?

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This seems to indicate that Seraph was a machine-program and lived in that heaven before descending to the Middle Earth of the Matrix.

Wahoo, now you're the only one amongst the elder here who seems to be unaware of that. As I said, every time you go deeper and deeper. Where will you stop ? When you pretend that Morpheus is the One ?

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4. Seraph did indeed work for Merv. But there was a period in between when he was on his own. Much like many other exiles.

That was the only point that should have bothered you. How did Seraph manage to go in the Matrix without the help of Merv, since he's an exile ? That's where he should have begun to work for him in exchange of his entering in the Matrix.

Maybe that Seraph was working in the Matrix when he decided to work for the Oracle, wich made of him an exile. Since he was already there, he didn't need Merv to enter in the Matrix. That's my best guess for now.

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A good thing would have been to give a direct link to the article.

Good idea. Thanks for that.

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Oh because you had doubts about that fact ?

Did I say that? Why do you always jump to conclusions? I always believed Seraph was an exile. It makes complete sense. Nowhere have I said that Seraph is not an exile.

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Why would Smith be chasing Seraph if he was a legal program ? <sigh>. Why would Seraph be working for Merv if he had a higher authority there ?

Again, I have never refuted that. Those are the main points I cite when telling someone that Seraph is an exile. You assume WAY TOO much. You assume what I'm thinking at this moment in time. Did anyone ever tell you what ASSUMing does?

Somehow I knew you would find some way of turning this against me. I wonder how. This is the exemption to "Past experience can never fully predict the future."

Anyway....I'm really interested in what other people would have to say about this.

Machine = Gold
(machine city can be seen through the fractals - in the intro of matrix 3)

Seraph = Gold

Thus Seraph is Linked to the Machines. Most likely he senses it due to meditation.

Machine City is heaven?

I don't understand that Smith already knew Seraph though.
Smith: We've been here before. I remember chasing you was like chasing a ghost.

I'll post something intelligent once I stop dancing in the light of new Seraph information.

Yeah I was wondering where you were. I expected to see you here first.

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Machine = Gold (machine city can be seen through the fractals - in the intro of matrix 3) Seraph = Gold Thus Seraph is Linked to the Machines.

But since that wasn't pointed out precisely and because they gold code on Seraph looked different, people had other hypotheses. However mostly people always kept this option open in case further information be released (which it has been).

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Machine City is heaven?

Yes in a symbolic sense. This is key to understanding many of the theories around here these days. The machines (The Source in particular) are the Godhead or Spirit which has been alienated by the humans. The humans rejected the machines and laid siege upon the sky. Thats a pretty big metaphor. For these sins, the humans were placed inside the dualistic, material `Middle Earth' world of the Matrix. The Source is thus the infinite God. And the whole point of the trilogy is to re-integrate Body, Mind and Spirit and re-connect with the Godhead as Neo does in Revolutions.

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I don't understand that Smith already knew Seraph though. Smith: We've been here before. I remember chasing you was like chasing a ghost.

Apparantly Smith chased Seraph a long time ago. This was back when Smith was still an agent. And Agents chase exile programs. So this indicates to Seraph being an exile.

He also chased Neo, Trinity and Morheus who were not exile programs.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

The machines (The Source in particular) are the Godhead or Spirit which has been alienated by the humans. The humans rejected the machines and laid siege upon the sky. Thats a pretty big metaphor. For these sins, the humans were placed inside the dualistic, material `Middle Earth' world of the Matrix. The Source is thus the infinite God. And the whole point of the trilogy is to re-integrate Body, Mind and Spirit and re-connect with the Godhead as Neo does in Revolutions...

Akshat, I am not saying that your theory is wrong; I am still unsure as to how to understand the source and DEM.
But if the source is the infinite God (Brahman?) and DEM is the godhead,.... how do you understand:

Oracle: "And if you can't find the answer, then I'm afraid there may be no tomorrow for any of us
(...)
He won't stop until there's nothing left at all"

Neo: … and I won't try to stop you. ….The program 'Smith' has grown beyond your control. Soon he will spread through this city as he spread through the Matrix. You cannot stop him, but I can.

Architect: "The function of the One is now to return to the source "... (still deluded?) ..."allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program..."

And Neo rising beyond the scorched sky (imo symbolic for delusion) and experiencing the sun (imo symbolic for Brahman), with the machines unable to follow.... ?

The source is something beyond the sentinels and the agents. The sentinels and the agents are like God's tools of wrath, but they are only there for the sake of control and justice. In order to truly discover God Neo must get past them first. It's almost like a way of proving himself worthy.

Isn't Christ the only one able to save mankind (in Christianity) because he is the only one who is righteous?

Fatpie,
I agree about the sentinels and the agents, I would say so even about the architect and eventually the Oracle. They are all finite aspects of the source, but not the source.
But what about DEM?

What does Neo mean, when he says: "he will spread through this city"? What is included in "in this city"?

What would have happened, had Neo not stopped Smith?

"....there may be no tomorrow for any of us"
Who is "any of us"? Man and machine.... The source included?

tozy wrote:

What does Neo mean, when he says: "he will spread through this city"? What is included in "in this city"?

It's the machine city, so what is included is machines.

tozy wrote:

What would have happened, had Neo not stopped Smith? "....there may be no tomorrow for any of us" Who is "any of us"? Man and machine.... The source included?

Yes

Yes I agree with what Fatty says above.

In my interpretation Tozy, Deus Ex Machina is the Source itself. Or the best visual representation of the Source atleast.

Dont forget the thread is about Seraph guys.

Seraph's story has some parallels with the story of Siddharth, the Buddha.

Buddha was born among powerful as a prince of a Kingdome in India. Seraph was once with Mero, the personification of power in matrix.

Buddha once had access to large wealth and resources. Seraph is associated with Jurang, a place once controlled resources. Perhaps that is why Seraph seem to know keymaker? Keymaker is the resources personified, like in Mero's words 'just means to an end'

Buddha abandoned his father's Kingdome. Buddha's father, the ruling king, was very displeased with Buddha Seraph as we know left Mero who is not too happy with him and calls him the prodigal son.

Buddha turned to the pursuit of self enquiry. Seraph came to the oracle who has 'know thyself' plaque at her door.

Buddha advocated the wakefulness to keep the self inquiry alive. Seraph represents that alertness to protect what matters most, the oracle, the self inquiry personified.

Buddha was attacked by some egotists of his times, but they were minority and largely people revered him in his lifetime. Likewise Seraph tells Smith (the ego personified) how he was unable to chase him down in the past. Smiths tells him back that it was because there were 'few' of us.

Wakefulness, the Buddha nature is subtle and intangible. Seraph too as Smith complained is ghostlike.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

1. Interesting dojo. Is it the same one in which Neo fought Seraph in Reloaded?

Nope. They fought in a Teahouse, not a Dojo. There were tables and benches remember?

Very interesting new information, although I assumed all of it to be the case before it was confirmed here. That's just common sense.

I'm loving how (starting with Reloaded) the brothers have presented the actual Matrix as a leaving, breathing, communal environment.

While it is correct to link Seraph to the Buddha, He is more like Siddharta before He became the Buddha. If you remember correctly, Siddharta Buddha was denied Nirvana, but was allowed to stay in the physical world to help other reach Nirvana. In a sense, Nirvana is the Source. Seraph; who could of been one of the previous Ones(since it is the fate of the One to return to the Source, and why the One glows after the return from the Source); went to the Source, but came back to protect The Oracle(to whom He owes alot, since She saved him from the Merovingian and that lifestyle), and to help Future Ones on the path to the Source. So, yeah, it's not to far fetched to link Seraph to the Buddha or Bodhisattva. Besides, what else would explain the Code Glow Seraph has the One possesses after touching the Source?

Okay, now that my Happy Seraph Dance is over...


Seraph is a program, plain and simple. Would a former One have worked for the Merovingian?

No, Seraph, I believe, is a 'fallen' angel, a theory strongly hinted at in Revolutions. As an Exile, he made his own ourpose, to protect 'that which matters most'. In Reloaded, he protects the Oracle; In Revs, he protects Sati. Sati represents the future, or possibly hope. That, then, is Seraph's self-given purpose - to protect the hope for the future.

Arc - it is interesting that you think the Oracle lured him away from the Merovingian. The Mero's 'Judas' comment could be interpreted that way; I took it to mean Seraph simply betrayed him, either to his enemy, or in another way.

bEagle - Actually, what they said went as follows:

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Smith: "I remember chasing you was like chasing a ghost." Seraph: "I have beaten you before!" Smith: "Yes, that's true, but as we both can see, things are a little different now."

DeAdLy_cOoKiE - The fiery gold code representing Seraph might mean that he came from the first Matrix, or simply that he is a powerful Exile. It also fits in with his name - Seraph literally mean 'fiery, burning one'. Interestingly enough, 'Seraph' the singular of 'seraphim', also means 'serpent'...

*returns to the Happy Seraph Dance*

You got a point there, Archangel.

How could someone who was the One, work for someone like the Merovingian? What if Seraph didn't know He was the One? Remember, the Oracle says that No one can tell you that you are the One, you just know. What if, and this is speculation; that what makes the One, the One; isn't apparent, until it is triggered. You have to realize it first, before it becomes apparent. Or maybe it's just my interpretation.

Isn't it always the purpose, or perhaps, one of the purposes of the One, is to defend a person or a group of people? If that wasn't the case, why did Neo and the One who precede Neo, help the Rebels in the first place? I mean, isn't that why? Because they felt a contingent affirmation or a strong sense of fortitious attachment to said individual or group of people. And while Neo's was more specific, it didn't mean that He still didn't feel the need to protect and defend everybody else.

As for the Glowing Code; if that was the case that Seraph was from an earlier Matrix and that He was a powerful Exile, why didn't the Oracle glow? Next to the Architect, She's the oldest Exile in the Matrix. And She'd have to be powerful if Smith decided to absorb her. Remember, Smith is absorbing those who He believes will give him an edge over Neo.(the reason why He downloaded himself into Bane, was so that He could have someone on the outside to disable Zion's defenses against the Sentinels) And, if The Glowing Code fits into the name, well, then it does. I won't argue about it, if that's the case.


Also, I read somewhere, that Bodhisattvas have been linked to Angels, simply because they serve as intermediaries and are charged with helping individuals achieve certain goals. And, I know for a fact there is such a thing as a fallen Bodhisattva. If you go with the Dalai Lama's percpetion of Dorje Shudgen, then it makes sense that in a way a fallen Bodhisattva, would be simliar to a fallen angel.


But then again, it is just speculation. After all, isn't that the reason why we are here, on this message board? Only the Wachowskis hold the answers to these questions. Unfortunately, they're not talking.

Arc, The Celestial Phoenix Incarnate

i wonder if seraph had a brother the long haried fella and came looking for him and when he wfound out he was working for merv he joined in to get his brother out but maybe his brother didnt want to leave so seraph left without him....intersting thought right?