»The Anti-One- Comprehensive theories and explanations«

Akshat Gupta wrote:

Again, I dont think they did anything. The emergence of the One was an inevitable cause of the solution the Architect came up with. The system is doing the internal cleaning. The Matrix is a vivisystem and acts like one. This comes straight out of Out Of Control, a Matrix- inspiration book. By summing up the fluctuations into one variable, the system is screaming to its creators/maintainers to help in fixing it. Now whether the Architect and the Oracle choose to do this or not is entirely up to them. Of course they choose to help the system. But my point here is, they are taking advantage of this effect of the system. They are not creating this measure of control themselves. They are using the effects of the system as measures of control.

I don't think so. The first two Matrices didn't give the humans a choice. The program was forced upon them; most humans refused because they want the power of free will, so the Matrix crashed very rapidly. There was no remainder, but an overflow of refusal which the system couldn't cope with.

The third Matrix gives a simple choice: either refuse or accept. Most people accept now, because the Matrix is quite safe for them: a whole life is planned for them and they now have the free choice of choosing it or not. This is enough power for them, so most of them choose the comfort of the Matrix-life.

About 1% is still refusing the Matrix and the program still has a problem with calculating this refusal in. It's still irrational and not solvable to them. So just as like with the first two Matrices, a set of fluctuations is bugging the Matrix. The only difference is that the fluctuations aren't as huge and dominating as with the first two Matrices. The system can bear the fluctuations, but there has to come a solution at a certain point or else the fluctuations will overflow and cause a crash again.

Now I believe in the symbolic link that the Architect is the creator-god of the system and Neo is Loki, who was put into the garden by God himself. Plus, the Architect talks about Neo's life as "by design", so I still believe that the Architect, as a mathematical freak, summed up the streams of fluctuations and gave them to Neo who was suited for the job.

Now, and this is also for Rex_Regis...
The agent-programs are an integrated subset of the system. They are meant to fight/destroy any thing that is causing fluctuations in the otherwise perfect system. Neo is the sum of these fluctuations, so it is quite logical that the main, most driven agent goes up against this sum of pure irrationality.

So the system makes them two opposite variables within the equation, but they were initially planted by the Architect/Oracle.

The Anti One is a perfect representation of the machine-side, partly rational, partly irrational, because:

1) He is rational because he wants to get rid of the humans: purpose of life is to end
2) He is irrational because he developed personal hate against his own creators and he strifes for pure freedom
3) He is a scream from the machines for understanding, because he is the only way to a bloodfusion between humans and machines

I still believe that the Anti One is part of each cycle. The Oracle sits calmly in the park, she simply wants the One to meat his counterpart, to feel his threat.

So the equation has produced two opposite extremes which can be either be

1) Neutralized, which happens if the One returns to the Source at the Architect. This is rational and the fusion is post-poned.

2) Solved, merge together and become an implementation for the system for accounting a balance between rationality and irrationality.

The five previous Ones did option 1, Neo did option 2.

The Architect didn't know what Neo was going to do. The Architect only noticed that his attachement is different now. This One was in love and I think the other Ones only had close friends like 'Morpheus' falling out of the window.
I, and many others here, still think that the Oracle manipulated them to fall in love, so that they might have a shot at peace. The Oracle finally learned that the only solution is on the path of love.
The Architect only knows what Neo is going to do after reading him when he was told about Trinity.
Maybe the Architect 'hopes' that Neo will choose the left-hand door, so that the Matrix will crash and the humans will die off. The Architect represents the cold-hearted rationality of the machines, so maybe on a subconsious level he wants to get rid of them.
Anyway, the Architect never comprehended what the Oracle did and why she did it.

I'd like to join this conversation even though I'm German and only saw the German translated movies(but got myself the English transcript including ETM and will read them to be a better partner for this discussion)

I think the Merv is actually a part of the system: I share your thought that his organisation is somewhat like a Zion for the machines, saving programs that seem to fulfill no purpose and would therefore be deleted.
When Smith is 'deleted' in some way by Neo, he must have been saved somewhere, and I consider this place to be somewhere in the Chateau's Dungeons, where the Keymaker(my pack prefers to refer to him as the Key Generator) was hidden.
Smith, even though deleted, HAS a purpose as the anti-one. His purpose is the balance of the architect's equation. The Architect himself is not resurrecting Smith. He only created the equation and the Merv is the part to store powerful programs which might have the abilities to
a) serve as guardians over the exilants(remember Neo had no easy fight against Merv's minions)
b) counter the one's powers. Smith is not allowed to be deleted, because the equation needs him to fulfill his purpose, which is hunting down the One.
This is also the reason why Smith will not return to the Chateau to get control of the Merv.
He is too busy getting his hands on Neo, as he said: "We're here because of you, Mister Anderson."
He's not back for the sake of destruction but only to remove the variable "Neo" from the equation.

Another thing about the Merv: he asked Trin and Morpheus for the Oracle's eyes. What good might they be to him?
If they bear some powers of foreseeing future events, he might take over the Oracle's powers. Neo were under HIS control instead the Oracle's.
He would have been able to control the One. Alternative: is there not a possibility Smith might have a need for this source of information?
The Oracle's eyes are her 'gift' (I lack another word, so excuse me for that), that allows her to imba the equation. So there might be a reason for Merv's demand to be brought her eyes.

But why would Merv set Smith free? My answer is: he would do this because he's made to do it. If he's part of the equation, he must follow the rules. He has to unleash the Anti-One. He has no choice-how could he? He denies the existance of choice: "Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without."
He(as every program) only does what he is meant to do.

And so does Smith: he tries to balance the equation without being aware of his actions' consequences. When Smith takes control of the Oracle, he changes his role: he becomes responsible for the imbalance of the system. This simply doesn't fit with his original purpose. He also takes over the Oracle's memories and her gift of foreseeing events.
As we know the Oracle-Smith is also the one who "defeats" Neo in the super burly brawl. You remember the Oracle saying "I'm willing to go as far as you to get [the end of war]?" The Oracle does go as far as she knows Neo has to go. Oracle-Smith recites the phrase about beginning and end(too lazy to look it up right now). Neo did not show any signs of understanding what he was meant to do before, did he? Now he knew. With his deletion Smith's existance was without purpose. This is the only way to get rid of him.

Back to Merv: I think he was originally created to store programs without current need which might be reloaded later. He also controls(?) the Trainman, who I would compare to an "up-, downloading program". Probably none of his stored programs can cross the line between his realm and the Matrix without his permission.

The Chateau's Script(e.g. the walls) is encoded so no agent can enter? What a great idea. We all know what an Agent would try to do if he could make his way into the cheteau. He would try to delete all the 'non-purpose-programs' inside. If the cyclic Matrices follow one common event-line, these programs might be needed again. For this they have to be stored at a place, where the agents can't go.
This fortifies my convinction that the Merv and his places are wanted for this sake. He is the keeper of 'unique' programs that may be useful for some purpose but not for a 'life' in the usual Matrix.

I hope my conclusions appear to be logical to you as I just like you am convinced, that the Architect is trying to build a perfect logic world and there are only representatives of the equation's variables impersonated(correct word?) in the story's characters. I hope I was able to introduce something new or at least to be a valiable partner for this discussion.

P.S.: If I made up something fully irrational without seeing it: please correct me. It will also help my comprehension and probably make the discussion more satisfying for all of us.

Syme wrote:

I'd like to join this conversation even though I'm German and only saw the German translated movies(but got myself the English transcript including ETM and will read them to be a better partner for this discussion)

Welcome to the forum!

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I think the Merv is actually a part of the system: I share your thought that his organisation is somewhat like a Zion for the machines, saving programs that seem to fulfill no purpose and would therefore be deleted.

Yes Merv is within the 'scary'-category. He is a result of AI-consious evolving into irrationality, so as a program he is unwanted; he is an exile like the Keymaker calls him in ETM. But on the other hand the machines DO need him, like they need Zion in order for the One to emerge properly. The machines don't like it, because it is not rational, but yet it is the most rational way of grouping the outcasts together; they rather would have one organisation than all the exiles spreading seperately through the Matrix causing all sorts of havoc. So that's why the machines are 'scared' of the Merv, but yet they allow him.

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When Smith is 'deleted' in some way by Neo, he must have been saved somewhere, and I consider this place to be somewhere in the Chateau's Dungeons, where the Keymaker(my pack prefers to refer to him as the Key Generator) was hidden.

That's an issue what is bothering me. We don't have enough information about how he resurrected and where he spent his time during six months.

When Neo jumped into him, he not only destroyed Smith, he also destroyed the host (a human in the Matrix) that Smith was using at that moment.
Also, Smith says in M2: "I was compelled to stay"; this could mean that he never actually left the Matrix, so the Mobil Ave theory would be flawed.

So what I'm thinking now is this:
Smith returned to the agent-network, like he normally would do when he no longer needs his host or when his host dies. The other two agents disobeyed their purpose/orders; they ran away from Neo like cowards. So I think they also returned to the agent-network and then surrendered to the Source because they failed to rationally execute their parameters. Smith, however was very very frustrated about what Neo did to him, so he kept wandering in the Matrix like a worried ghost (within the agent-network that is or whatever system the agents travel in, it must be some sort of networking-protocol).

Now, when Neo meets the new upgraded agents at the rebel-meetingpoint it is clear that he sees these new agents for the first time, otherwise he wouldn't say: "hmmm upgrades".
This implies that there were no agents during the six months that Neo was freeing people as the One.
Also, the other two rebels say "agents?", like they are very surpised. This might also indicate that they haven't encountered agents for a long time. Maybe they thought that Neo had scared them away forever in the hallway of the hotel.

So, but this is very assumptive, when the new agents came, Smith was forced out/kicked out of the agent-network (hence his missing earpiece) and that's the moment when he begins his personal quest.

So what I am trying to say is that he was trapped in his own former network and that he was wondering around the Matrix like a restless spirit that was angry about his death, feeling that he didn't complete his purpose on earth.

It was either that OR he was in Mobil Ave. But I just can't imagine Smith negotiating or even talking to the Merovingian. Smith is much too arrogant for that, they would have a fight in an instant I guess

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Smith, even though deleted, HAS a purpose as the anti-one. His purpose is the balance of the architect's equation.

Agreed. The Oracle is unbalancing the equation by helping the non-accepters to leave the Matrix and by helping the rebels to find the One.

The Architect wants to balance out the One with the Anti One.

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The Architect himself is not resurrecting Smith. He only created the equation

Correct. The Architect just made sure that one of the agents has smarter parameters and becomes the leader. He is the most driven and most intelligent agent and these factors will by nature drive him to be frustrated about failing.
So the Architect puts in the variables and the equation works it all out by nature.

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He is too busy getting his hands on Neo, as he said: "We're here because of you, Mister Anderson." He's not back for the sake of destruction but only to remove the variable "Neo" from the equation.

He does enjoy to destroy, and he does want everything. Why else does he bother to face Sati and Seraph first instead of walking straight to the Oracle whom is much more important to him?
He just has extra motivation to get Neo because Neo is the sum of his frustrations. And where do you wan to put most of your agression? Yes, against your own frustrations.
Neo literally is the sum of the remainder that he has been chasing for about 100 years, only to see that he would fail at stopping the One.
Also, Neo's mind is connected to the Source. Neo can destroy machinery when he is up close. Imagine what Smith could do if he would pump his entire collective consiousness through Neo's mind. It might improve Neo's strength by a million or so and with that Smith could take on Deus Ex Machina. Also, Smith clearly says: "I want what you want, I want everything", so he clearly might think that Neo will gain him more power. But we are not sure of this, so for now let's stay to the fact that Smith wants to kill Neo out of frustration.

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Another thing about the Merv: he asked Trin and Morpheus for the Oracle's eyes. What good might they be to him? If they bear some powers of foreseeing future events, he might take over the Oracle's powers. Neo were under HIS control instead the Oracle's. He would have been able to control the One. Alternative: is there not a possibility Smith might have a need for this source of information? The Oracle's eyes are her 'gift' (I lack another word, so excuse me for that), that allows her to imba the equation. So there might be a reason for Merv's demand to be brought her eyes.

I just think that Merv wants them in order to gain more power. The eyes of the Oracle give (fore)knowledgement and knowledge equals power. Maybe her eyes also have more answers about the why which is the most powerfull thing to know as Merv said himself.

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But why would Merv set Smith free? My answer is: he would do this because he's made to do it. If he's part of the equation, he must follow the rules. He has to unleash the Anti-One. He has no choice-how could he? He denies the existance of choice: "Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without." He(as every program) only does what he is meant to do.

If he ever had the Anti One captured, then maybe he is 'forced' because he has a deal with the Architect or something: no attempts to get you if you co-operate on these and those issues.
His luxurious existence is maybe paid with the consequence of obeying the system once and a while.

I don't agree with you that he does have to do things because it's the way of the equation. Also, he is not a rational program anymore; he does things beyond his parameters and original purpose.

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The Oracle does go as far as she knows Neo has to go. Oracle-Smith recites the phrase about beginning and end(too lazy to look it up right now). Neo did not show any signs of understanding what he was meant to do before, did he? Now he knew. With his deletion Smith's existance was without purpose. This is the only way to get rid of him.

Fully agreed. We all need guidance in our lives; we have a relationship with 'god' who tells us through our own heart which things are good and which things are not. The Oracle is also a (half)god; she guides Neo among his entire path. He just needed that little push from a 'higher order' so that he could accomplish his true destiny.

Smith is indeed worth zero without Neo, because negative can never exist further on without it's positive.

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The Chateau's Script(e.g. the walls) is encoded so no agent can enter? What a great idea. We all know what an Agent would try to do if he could make his way into the cheteau. He would try to delete all the 'non-purpose-programs' inside. If the cyclic Matrices follow one common event-line, these programs might be needed again. For this they have to be stored at a place, where the agents can't go.

I don't agree on this. These programs are not needed anymore, they are just dangerous. Agents would never be able to destroy the ghost-twins for example. So it's better that they protect the Merovingian instead of being rogue guys on the loose. Otherwise they would cause unecessary havoc and now they have somewhat of a purpose, allthough it's not fully rational.

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P.S.: If I made up something fully irrational without seeing it: please correct me. It will also help my comprehension and probably make the discussion more satisfying for all of us.

Your efforts are very welcome; it keeps us thinking. I just spent my #1000 post on you, what an honour