»big big plot hole«

If Neo deleted Smith at the end of Matrix 1...smith wouldnt have gone to the source to be deleted and therefore he woulnt have had the choice to become an exile or not

He chose NOT to go to the source to be deleted. He was compelled to stay, compelled to disobey.

Precisely. Remember the method of "deletion" in the Matrix. When fighting against "sentient" programs, or perhaps any kind of program, you can't simply "erase" them at your leisure.

Neo could "destroy" programs, but there's still an entire system regarding death as well, at least for programs.

Normal Method:
Program is declared "beaten" or "killed" or whatever. Therefore, it gets "deleted." The program must now return to the Source for deletion, for this is the final "resting place" for those programs.

Smith Method:
To balance the equation, Smith sort of becomes the "anti-one" or Neo's opposite. It's not just an arbitrary thing, in my opinion on that subject, but since he becomes this anti-one, he is irrevocably linked to Neo from now on. They hate each other deeply. They refuse to lose to one another, for different reasons of course. Because of that, Smith encounters the "part" where he's supposed to return to the source. But as Fatpie supplied from the script, he was compelled to stay. So he broke the system. Technically, he was supposed to get deleted like Neo had initiated, but Neo can only bend or break the rules... he doesn't have control over the entire rule system though.

I know there are a lot of people who look at the matrix in terms of mathematics and the workings of a computer system. I don't know much about computers, but something just occurred to me.

When a computer deletes something it doesn't delete straight away does it? If I was to delete lots of secret documents on my computer and a computer expert was to come to my computer straight afterwards they would no doubt be able to see all (or at least most) of the documents I just deleted.

Any link to this deletion system in the matrix? Or completely different and irrelevent?

Doctor Shaft wrote:

Precisely. Remember the method of "deletion" in the Matrix. When fighting against "sentient" programs, or perhaps any kind of program, you can't simply "erase" them at your leisure. Neo could "destroy" programs, but there's still an entire system regarding death as well, at least for programs. Normal Method: Program is declared "beaten" or "killed" or whatever. Therefore, it gets "deleted." The program must now return to the Source for deletion, for this is the final "resting place" for those programs. Smith Method: To balance the equation, Smith sort of becomes the "anti-one" or Neo's opposite. It's not just an arbitrary thing, in my opinion on that subject, but since he becomes this anti-one, he is irrevocably linked to Neo from now on. They hate each other deeply. They refuse to lose to one another, for different reasons of course. Because of that, Smith encounters the "part" where he's supposed to return to the source. But as Fatpie supplied from the script, he was compelled to stay. So he broke the system. Technically, he was supposed to get deleted like Neo had initiated, but Neo can only bend or break the rules... he doesn't have control over the entire rule system though.

well then surely when programs such as the twin, mervs henchmen and the keymaker are killed in the matrix (they are all exiles) they simply go back to the source for deleletion and choose to become an exile again. There has to be some way of getting them finaly deleted.

Ultimately, it's really quite simple. All programs are able to choose to return to the Matrix after being sent for deletion. Returning to the source and subsequent destruction is "the rule", but programs are capable of not doing so anyway.

Smith is motivated not to return to the source because he has Neo's code within him, and it's his function as the anti-one that compells him to return.

Simple.

AzarN wrote:

Ultimately, it's really quite simple. All programs are able to choose to return to the Matrix after being sent for deletion. Returning to the source and subsequent destruction is "the rule", but programs are capable of not doing so anyway. Smith is motivated not to return to the source because he has Neo's code within him, and it's his function as the anti-one that compells him to return. Simple.

yeees i understand that. It is simple.


Howerver im trying to say that once an exile has been destroyed in the matrix (be it by an agent or by neo) then they can easily refuse the source again and return as an exile.
Therefore programs such as the twins may not be truly dead. They may refuse the souce again.
What im getting at is are there any other ways of destroying a program besides the source?

Even the source could have a problem deleting programs. Viruses inside the temportary memory are very insidious. They can copy themselves thouthands (or more) times per second, and scrap their origanal copying program. Sort of like always being on the run, and trying to keep hidden.

Okay.. so basicly it takes a program to fight a program while your comp is running.. and even then.. mathematicly it's almost an exercise in futility (if the virus is programmed right). So when that doesn't work.. reboot. You have to hope the virus didn't write it's self to start up with your computer. If that happens, it'll start right up with the next reboot (maybe that's how the exiles do it).

Of course..if all else fails, you wipe everything out, only put your base operating system (and BIOS) back in, and you have to start all over.

Just thinking... yeap.. the exiles MUST run off a machine mainframe, otherwise rebooting the matrix that way would wipe the exiles out. Smith is different.. he's written into people. The machines would have to basicly wipe The Source out to get the exiles... lol.. weird stuff.

Okay.. now there's just one hole in this thing I need to work out... How can they delete the Smiths that have written themselves over exiles?

exactly which is why Neo said that Smith couldn't stop at destroying the matrix that he would continue to the source.

remember the real had been destroyed hundreds of years prior all that was left was the simulations of the real run by the machines.

The AI was created in mans (humankinds) image. The program that represented death & destruction in the matrix was Smith. Death and destruction in a computer is done by what we label a virus. Peace is returned to the machine we call a computer when that virus is destroyed.

Smith wanted to "break into Morpheous' mind" to get the codes to the Zion main frame. Zion was a seperate city run by a mainframe computer. If the machines could gain access to it they could destroy it. Smith's purpose was to destroy Zion.

Still no one has answered my question. What happens to those exiles (eg the twins) that are destroyed within the matrix?

(If they are offered the choice of exile or deletion once more they will obviously choose exile once more.)

They don't got o the source to choose deleltion or exile. They choose exile or deletion which would require going to the source. So the agents find the exiles forcefully take them to the source who deletes them.

Quote:

Okay.. now there's just one hole in this thing I need to work out... How can they delete the Smiths that have written themselves over exiles?

Tehy delete the Smith program (or virus) and anything connected gets taken with it.

Fatpie42 wrote:

When a computer deletes something it doesn't delete straight away does it? If I was to delete lots of secret documents on my computer and a computer expert was to come to my computer straight afterwards they would no doubt be able to see all (or at least most) of the documents I just deleted. Any link to this deletion system in the matrix? Or completely different and irrelevent?

To answer that quistion you would have to know the way of data storage that the system uses.
For example.
The situation you describe concers your hard drive. A optical system. When you delete something from your HD in the OS, it is usauly only removes the entry from the index of your harddrive, the actual data remains, until the same part of the hd is rewritten. There are other storage media that dont have that property.

My gues would be that deletion means the data is gone.