»Full theory on Source programs and equations«

This thread is meant to address quite a few issues- how the anomaly affects the Source and the different program worlds, Neo’s powers in the system and if the programs contribute to the systemic anomaly or not. These have arisen together from a comprehensive theory I have discovered lately which enhance the way I understand the system as a whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of you were already aware of this. I am surprised that I am only discovering it now.

I will mainly be talking about the Source and the programs running under the Source. They are- the Matrix, the Architect’s chamber, the machine-program network and perhaps Mobil Avenue Trainstation.

First of all lets establish a few facts.

Now whatever you believe the Matrix to be (OS or not) and whatever you believe the Source to be (OS or not), I think we can all agree that the Matrix is a program that runs under the Source. The Source governs it, and all other things machine. The Matrix is just one of a few programs which the Source governs. The Architect’s chamber is undoubtedly another program running under the Source. If you are unfamiliar with this concept, click matrix-explained.com... for an explanation and the discussion which occurred long time ago. Another program running under the Source is the machine-program network (as I like to call it) which has spurred some discussion in these forums. If you are unfamiliar with it, click matrix-explained.com... for my discovery of it. Now if you imagine a hierarchy chart of the system, the Matrix would be on the same level as the machine-program network and the Architect’s chamber. They would all be under the Source.

Another fact to establish is why Neo’s powers affect the Matrix. To me, it feels like I have been mislead in Revolutions and I continued to believe what was told and did not consider it myself until now. Neo’s code/variable in the equation/RSI is the sum of the remainder of the unbalance in the equations of the Matrix. This is what makes him the integral anomaly. This is what gives him powers in the Matrix. He does not have the same powers in the real world because he doesn’t carry the code/RSI in the real world. Similarly, Neo’s powers cannot work in any other virtual environment that does not have the same rules/parameters as the Matrix. If another virtual environment does not have same rules/parameters as the Matrix, Neo’s code/RSI would not be recognized by the environment as the same way the Matrix would recognize it. Therefore, his powers will not work there.

A quick mathematical point of view……we can all agree that there is one equation or a system of equations governing the Matrix, right? We are reminded of this equation and the unbalance within it many times in the movies. Well, the unbalance in this equation is what gives Neo his powers in the Matrix. Logic suggests to us that there is a DIFFERENT equation or system of equations governing the other programs such as the machine-program network and the Architect’s chamber. These equations do NOT contain the unbalance that the equation of the Matrix contains. Therefore, Neo’s powers would not manifest in those programs. Since the unbalance in the equation of the Matrix leads to the systemic anomaly, the other programs (machine-program network, Architect’s chamber) do not have an anomaly within them; or atleast an anomaly which is caused by human choice.

So this brings us to the question which many have asked before in this forum recently- do the exiles contribute to the systemic anomaly? Well, I think it is possible that the pure program exiles (Merv, Twins, Seraph etc.) do contribute to the anomaly because they are variables part of the equation of the Matrix. They are not from the other equations governing the other worlds. But exiles from the machine world- such as Sati- do not contribute to the systemic anomaly IN THE MATRIX ITSELF. Sati is program originally from the machine-program network. Indeed there have been other programs from the machine-program network who have fled to the Matrix to become exiles before (the whole point of the Trainstation). So these programs do not contribute to the anomaly. However, they might cause a different unbalance in the equation that governs the machine-program network. The machines must have another way of dealing with that unbalance. Maybe it is not great enough to cause harm. Maybe Sati is the integral anomaly of that world. Who knows? It is inconsequential at this point. We don’t know enough about that world. The point is- pure program exiles from the Matrix contribute to the anomaly in the Matrix while machine-program exiles do not.

Now comes the question of Neo’s powers in the system. I previously told you that I felt cheated because I had the wrong assumption. With the explanation given in Revolutions, I started to believe that Neo is the integral anomaly of the entire system and that’s why he can control anything connected to the Source. But based on the explanation of how the system recognizes his code as the integral anomaly ONLY in the Matrix, this cannot be true. As I said before, he cannot use his powers in other virtual environments. But then why does the Oracle say that Neo’s power extends to the Source? Because the Matrix runs under the Source. The Matrix comes from the Source and we know so does Neo. So that’s why Neo’s powers reach back `all the way back to the Source’ (Imagine a path created connecting the Matrix to the Source in that hierarchy chart you imagined before). So, this is the reason that Neo can see/feel the Source and can destroy some peripherals connected to it (ie. The sentinels). BUT, I believe if Neo was to go into the machine-program network (we don’t know what it looks like), he would not be able to stop bullets or fly because he is not the integral anomaly there.

Then why are Neo’s powers greater than those of others’ in the construct training programs? Because they are designed to mimic the rules and parameters of the Matrix. So they recognize Neo as the anomaly there as well.

As for Mobil Ave- IF Mobil was connected to the Source, then we know the explanation of why Neo’s powers do not work there. But, seeing that it is an illegal place, I am starting to think that Mobil Ave is not connected/controlled by the Source but is a completely different place. Its sort of a gateway between the machine-program network and the Matrix, like the door of light was a gateway between the Matrix and the Architect’s chamber. The only difference is that Mobil Ave is illegal. There must be then another world- another gateway- between the machine-program network and the Matrix- a legal one. This would be the way programs from the Source go to work in the Matrix- this would be the one Mobil Ave Neo was hypothesizing about. Either way, if Mobil Ave is indeed not run by the Source, then also we have an explanation as to why Neo’s powers did not manifest there.

That was probably one of my biggest complaints about Revolutions. They didn’t explain enough about the Trainstation. They better plan to do it in the future. It might have helped us gain a better understanding of these other programs as well.

So main summing up:

1. Matrix is one of many programs run by the Source; others are machine-program network, Architect’s chamber, Trainstation?, others we don’t know about?. All have their representative equations governing them.
2. Pure-program exiles comprise the anomaly in the Matrix; machine-program exiles do not.
3. Neo’s powers in the Matrix are due to his being the sum of the remainder of the Matrix equation. Unless other virtual environments do not have the same rules/parameters as the Matrix, Neo’s powers will not manifest there.
4. Neo’s powers do, however, lead all the way `back to the Source’ because he is from the Source. This is why he can see/feel it and can destroy some other things connected to it.

Let me know of your opinions, of any questions you might have, or if you see flaws in my reasoning. It is not perfect but a work (and thoughts) in progress.

Thanks

Very nice summed up explanation which corresponds with my thoughts almost exactly.

You could say it was frustrating that they didn't explain things like Mobil Ave station. But it is all a matter of perception. I didn't know about the symbolic links of Mobil Ave untill I red someone's essay, and I must say that I did get joy from discovering this. It gave me a nice after-taste.
I know alot about computers and programming-stuff, so to me it was easier to understand the Mobil Ave process (allthough this also took me some thinking-time, crushing my brain).
So on the one hand it's frustrating, on the other hand it's wonderfull. Without the frustration we wouldn't have spent brilliant moments of time on this forum Let's keep sharing thoughts and together we might solve the puzzle

I don't know if I can fully agree on the pure exiled programs being part of the systemic anomaly.
I think they create a hazard for the Architect. Their presence in the Matrix changes the paths of many programmed 'human'-lives within it.
For example, let's take a government official in the Matrix. Without the Merovingian's presence his programmed-life would have turned out according to the Architect's programming/calculations. But now the Merovingian has bribed him to get him into his pocket. What happens at a point of time is that he gets arrested, changing his entire programmed-life thanks to the Merovingian.
This makes the Architect sweat, because he has to adjust variables in the Matrix to still make things act together in programmed harmony.

On the other hand, however, the Merovigian is also welcome to the Architect. Thanks to him the most dangerous exiles are organized at one particular point. This gives an overview, so that the agents don't have to chase different dangerous exiles spreading randomly through the entire world of the Matrix.

I think that the systemic anomaly ONLY is about humans who do NOT accept the Matrix as a whole. They refuse the programmed-life they were offered by choosing the red pill and leaving the Matrix.
This leaves a remainder within the Matrix; these humans were supposed to die within the Matrix itself, so that their digital-code could return to the Source. You can read more about this here:

Quote:

Very nice summed up explanation which corresponds with my thoughts almost exactly.

Glad to hear it.

Quote:

I don't know if I can fully agree on the pure exiled programs being part of the systemic anomaly. I think they create a hazard for the Architect. Their presence in the Matrix changes the paths of many programmed 'human'-lives within it.

Yes that is what I meant. They cause problems and fluctuations in the equations. But as you said, the technical reason for this isn't the same as the technical reason for the systemic anomaly which is only in humans (choice and 99%, 1%). But the symbolical reason is the same. They too want the power to choose, to live and exist not just for purpose. This is an inherently (until now) human condition. So, as I said, its symbolic. As you said:

Quote:

The machine-world became irrational AFTER coming into contact with humans.

Quote:

They just cause fluctuations within the entire machine-world (including both the Matrix and the machine-network).

Yes I guess programs do cause fluctuations on the machine-side of the universe. As mentioned elsewhere, it would be interesting to see more on the anomaly in the machine world.

Your metaphorical analyses of Neo and Smith is right on track. I found myself thinking the same thing last week when I wasn't here.

Quote:

First I thought it was encrypted, but this can't be true. If it was encrypted, how did the Rama-family get access to it?

Why can it not be possible that it is a separate construct not connected to the Source directly but an illegal passage to and from the Matrix and the machine world? Is this concept similar to the concept of the Chateau or Club Hel?

If I got it right, you say that the code of the One is created at the source, right ? If I remember well, you said so in another topic.
So my question is : if the Source can create the code by itself, why do they need Neo ?

What do you think?

Did you read the Architect's speech?

What is your view on it?

Apocryphe wrote:

If I got it right, you say that the code of the One is created at the source, right ? If I remember well, you said so in another topic. So my question is : if the Source can create the code by itself, why do they need Neo ?

I didn't think that the code was 'orginally created' at the source. I thought it came from the source because the previous one went to the source to have his code reinserted. However, the one code cannot have come from the source originally and still fit in with AGs theory.

AG, you said that the one was the eventuality of an anomaly and said that this anomaly was caused by choice. There is no choice at the source - anything that does not have a purpose is deleted, end of story. How can an anomaly caused by choice occur at a place where there is no choice?

(Apoc would do well to explain what mistakes I am making rather than writing another pointless "Fatpie is so stupid" post. )

Yes every program that does not have a purpose is deleted.

But that does not mean that the One code cannot come from the Source. The One code exists because of the imbalance in the equations of the Matrix. These equations/codes of the Matrix come from the Source, no?

Aksha,

in fact my question was for you and not for Fatpie, thus except if he answered like you would, I still don't know what's your point of view about my question.

Aksha wrote:

What do you think? Did you read the Architect's speech?

As someone else explained it in another topic, it's typically a Goedel's theoreme problem. You really need to understand that theory in order to understand the Architecte's speech.

What does that theory say ?
Every system is incomplete, because it is always a part of the universe. It means that the rules governing that closed system (the "closed" word is very important) is built on the basic rules of the universe and therefore, the rules of the system will always be secondary. In the Matrix, the basic rule is the golden code while the system's rules are the green code. Rules built on other rules. So far so good ?

Let's go on then : a closed system can have other closed systems inside of it, and those smaller systems can have again smaller systems in them. It's typically a fractal structure, hence the fractal that we see in the beginning of Revolutions. The fractal is the symbol of the interacting of different systems.

Now the Architecte's speech : the Matrix has been built on the human neural system (aka our brain) and therefore the basic rule of the Matrix will the functionning of our brain. As I said, in every system there will be a part that will depend on the outside world and the more you'll try to decrease the rules coming from the outside world, the more the outside world will menace the system of destruction.

A good example of it is pollution : we have not had any problems with polluting our air during several decades but now, we're slowly realizing that we're killing our futur. As you see, the system reacted with a menace of destruction (melting of north pole, hot weather, cyclones etc.).

It works for everything : consider your computer as a closed system. You're like the Architecte of your computer, right ? But if you don't work to pay the electricity bill, if you don't use anti-virus, protection against hackers, if you never make a scandisk or defragmentation, one day your computer will crash. The system work for you but you must work for it too, and if you don't work for it then it'll decide to self-desctruct.

Wich bring us to the anomaly : 99% of people accept the program if they're asked first (at an uncoscious level). If they refuse, then they should have the right to leave the system. But what if you don't let them out ? Then they'll launch their self-destruction option, because they prefere to die rather than living in a system that they don't accept.

That's Smith's job, to destroy everything : he's the one menacing the system. Neo is the part of the anomaly that will accept to cancel the self-destruction option if the system accept to respect the outside rules (i.e. our neural brain).
To take the weather example, if we decided to accept stopping pollution, then the weather should re-equilibrate itself.
Machines accepted to let out those who want to, so now we're going to re-equilibrate the matrix until they decide again to cut their promises.

So you see, the anomaly is something universal, that exists at any level in any system, and therefore it cannot be created by the source, it is something that the source would like to delete but it can't.

I explained it as good as I could despite my bad english, honnestly I cannot be clearer than that.

I could start a new thread with this... The oracle said Neo the power of the one came from the source. The architect said he needed neo to go back to the source to temporarily 'disseminate the code you carry'. One might pose: is once Neo is freed and lives in the real world, what code would he have, or want?
'The power of the one applies is both worlds'
Once your mind is freed, you still have code, but when you hack into the matrix. That's another question: Are Humans born in the matrix purely made by AI?
M1 'Human beings are no longer born, we are grown.' Could it be that AI makes all people that are born in the matrix, effectively? I'll explain what I believe: They need choice to keep the system, and with that they need to effectively created all humans, at random, but, and I don't get this, balance everywhere in the matrix. There is the eventuality of the anomaly, neo. I think they need neo to go back to the source becuase otherwise there is no balance. There is no control. I think if neo does return to the source, it keeps the unbalanced equation from getting worse. With the exact remainder of the unbalanced equation going back and repeating itself in the next cycle, (of the destruction of zion and the next zion) things don't get worse. If he doesn't return to the source, there is no balance, and somehow humans rebel and want out because the unbalanced equation gets people knowing that the matrix is not real. To get back to the thread, AI programs are like humans. There is no program that can do everything. AI have ability to make more AI, not smarter than the maker, but differently. 'A single conciousness that spawned an entire race of machines.' One AI, can design a different machine to do different things that the mother AI can't do. Not better, just designed different for a different purpose. That is what the architect is. He is designed for one purpose, something the mother, creater could not have done.

I'll explain further. In M3 'He can't see beyond any choice...his purpose is to balance the equation' Every machine has a purpose. The equation of the matrix is different. Every program in the matrix has a purpose. In the machine world as well. 'every program must have a purpose, if it does not it is deleted' Machines create more machines for purpose. Just like if you didn't want to do math homework, you give to your older brother, who is good at math. You don't want to do math homework, it isn't your thing. Your brother was wired differently when he was born. Thus machines create more machines and wire them approapriately, with a purpose. If I could explain further, the machines are created with desire. They want something. The architect wants to make math and creation work, and to keep his 'painting' in line at all times. That's what he wants. Machines have ability to create desires in their spawns to get a purpose they need.

Well Aksha, I see that it was really pointless to try to explain to you my theory because u apparently didn't even read it.

Apocryphe wrote:

Well Aksha, I see that it was really pointless to try to explain to you my theory because u apparently didn't even read it.

That is because maybe it is too vague?

Your theory begins good, but then hangs in the middle of it. And don't say it is your bad english

It's simple...

The Source spawns all the AI, all the code.

In the world of programmers almost all software is written in source-code. When they are done writing the code-structure it is compiled into a working program.

The Architect writes the coding for the Matrix, but he compiles it from the Source.

So therefore everything originated from the Source. Neo, when present in the Matrix, is digital code, a digital variable which came from the Source.

When Neo opens the door of bright white light in M2 that is clearly the Source ("to reach the Source you need the Keymaker").

At that point Neo has reached the structure that lies above the Matrix and where his code originated from. He becomes in touch with it, he absorbs it's 'environment'. That's why he can feel the Sentinels AFTER he just returned from the Architect. He is now in touch with the system that stands above the Matrix.

Some people believe that Neo had this connection all along, even before he went through the door of light. I don't believe this. He has been the One for over six months and he never felt a Sentinel before? Now all of a sudden after coming back from the Architect he can feel them. Says enough to me

Quote:

Some people believe that Neo had this connection all along, even before he went through the door of light. I don't believe this. He has been the One for over six months and he never felt a Sentinel before? Now all of a sudden after coming back from the Architect he can feel them. Says enough to me

He has not had the connection all along - you are correct.

What you can say though is that his original enlightenment at the end of M1 he had taken an important step - he had learned how to KNOW something.

What happens to him with the source is comparable but on the next level, once again its only about TRUTH.

its like this: think about the levels in this way:

A = matrix world (mr. andersons home)
B = matrix code (falling green symbols)

C = real world (trinity's home)
D = source (gold/yellow code)

then:

A is to B .... as .... C is to D

although CD are much more complex than the matrix (AB), the matrix is only a poor copy or reflection of CD.

now the hard part to visualise - take it a step further, and this is what neo uses on his path from the end of the first movie:

A is to B .... as .... C is to D .... as AB is to CD

what neo does is KNOW B from his existence in A.

from this he can take his KNOWLEDGE of AB and his existence in C to determine the remainder ....which is D.

to realise this connection or to KNOW it puts the source within grasp. So he may not have had the connection with the source all along but each step opens a new door on his journey. Therefore the original connection is very important.


(PS: i know that someone is gonna start banging on now about my understaning of the yellow/gold code as most poeple just like to say its "machine code" and the source is something else ....I've not been on this forum for a while and have given this a lot of thought - i still beleive the gold code is a represenation of the source....maybe i never will understand this machine code business....but it doesnt look like many people agree with me!)

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Apocryphe wrote: Well Aksha, I see that it was really pointless to try to explain to you my theory because u apparently didn't even read it. That is because maybe it is too vague? Your theory begins good, but then hangs in the middle of it. And don't say it is your bad english

Wich part is vague ? Because saying it's vague without explaining why, well that 's a rather vague comment. If you read it all, you can't humanly not have understood the theory I was defending.

Quit poisoning my thread.

I like your explanation AG, it does make a sense that Neo's power in the real world (to control or destroy sentinels) originates from the similarity of machines' neural network to the matrix - due to the source that had probably created them both.

Maybe the source is some kind of programming language that was used to program AIs, machine world and the matrix too. And Neo's power could stem from his (maybe unconscious) understanding to this language. I think he reached some knowledge of that language (how the system work) even before the meeting with Architect but what happen after? He needed Keymaker and I think he got a key - to the system - some kind of 'administrator' right. Imagine the key as a password, like the one that is needed to log into your computer. After this right was granted to him - because Neo was the One and he had prove that by reaching Archietect's chamber - he become able to affect the system on more general level then before.

Why I made an explanation like this? I still don't see how Neo could get his powers only by being the remainder of some equation. I think he obtained them due to his ability to break the rules - by realizing that the rules are there just to impose control, confusion and fear.

I think this could be supported also by Apocryphe's explanation of Goedel's theorem of incompleteness: that even if the system seems to be restrictive and "perfect" in its entirety, it could be undermined from outside, because there is always something outside. Only the universe as whole can be regarded as one and complete system but it is too complicated and interrelated to comprehend it in its entirety.

Quote:

He needed Keymaker and I think he got a key - to the system - some kind of 'administrator' right. Imagine the key as a password, like the one that is needed to log into your computer. After this right was granted to him - because Neo was the One and he had prove that by reaching Archietect's chamber - he become able to affect the system on more general level then before.

I have always agreed with the key as a password idea. I like that explanation of Neo's newfound powers. But how about this- now Neo has experienced another aspect of the Source-network- a separate world- The Architect's chamber. This strenghtens his connection to the Source and makes him realize his newfound powers.

PS- I hate it when people try to explain everything by using computing analogies. The Matrix is more about a study in systems (scientific and technological) in general than computing specifically.

Quote:

Only the universe as whole can be regarded as one and complete system

We're not even sure about that. All systems seem to have undecidability and uncompleteness as essential aspects. So maybe thats the secret of the universe....

Take "source" as a word.

See it as a word, NOT as an object (in this case Deus Ex Machina)

The problem is NOT to look at the movie literally. I like to look at it from a psychological/philosofical point of view.

"The power leads all the way back to the source"

The source = THE PAST. We get power from our PAST (all the way back to when you are born).

But since the movie is actually a big "DREAM", things are explained by OBJECTS, and LABELS. Hence the 3 Power cables, leading to the Source.

Whatever people do, say, create, it is all based on ones PAST.
When a painter paints, you could say that what he paints it originates from his past. (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just a personal theory, one could like a certain painting, while someone else doesn't. The person who likes the painting, can RELATE to it somehow, most likely because of a similar PAST, or variables of his PAST). Same with musicians, writers, movie makers, ME, YOU, NEO.

If a painter paints from his past, the person who created the matrix must have created it from his/her past too. When roads, buildings are built, whatever is realized in the 'material' world, it contains elements from THE PAST. Things we, as humans, can all relate to.

Neo SEES the power lines, and KNOWS he has to follow those POWER LINES in order to reach to SOURCE.

Not entirely sure what im trying to say here.. Maybe that because GOD is in every one of us, we leave MARKS here and there (in the material world), that one can have a 'sight' for, because the one can reason from THE PAST, like every human acts/creates from his past. Babble.

Not sure, is Zion is shaped like a PI symbol? Was it built that way for a reason, or is it coincedence. (In the intro > you can see Zion and Machine City in the code)

There's no anomaly in the equation. NEO IS the anomaly.

Anyways, what exactly does Deus Ex mean?
And are there any MAPs of the Cities?

Quote:

I like your explanation AG, it does make a sense that Neo's power in the real world (to control or destroy sentinels) originates from the similarity of machines' neural network to the matrix - due to the source that had probably created them both.

I'm glad to see how open-minded you are, Titek. You're right, and that's confirmed by the Oracle, who said that the power of the One extends from the matrix to where it came from - the source.

Quote:

Imagine the key as a password, like the one that is needed to log into your computer.

In fact, after months of analysis too long to explain here, I am now 99% sure that Neo's powers are not linked to his statue of "One". He was given powers in the Matrix, yes, but you clearly see through several scenes that he does not understand how the code really works.

He got his powers in the reality from his passage in the door of light, that fact tells everything about how much power Neo really gets from himself. If his power was coming from the anomaly, then the system should not be able to increase it whenever they want.

The real power of the One is to merge with the anti-One, and to destroy it IF he accepts to do so. Finally, the One is the represantant of the human race, he's there to make a decision, a choice. The other powers were given to Neo in order to assure his surviving in the Matrix.

All the rest is a big lie to bring him in the Architecte's room and convince Smith that he must take over Neo. Note that the Architecte only spook about refusing the program and menacing the system, not about powers.

Quote:

I still don't see how Neo could get his powers only by being the remainder of some equation.

Exactly, he does not. That power was given to him. As you said, it is like an admin keyword. The source gave it to him, it could have been anyone else. His only real power is to prevent the escalating of the anomaly.
Note : I read several times that the power of the Christ was to forgive us, his miracles were only there to help him in task. See the analogy ?

Quote:

PS- I hate it when people try to explain everything by using computing analogies. The Matrix is more about a study in systems (scientific and technological) in general than computing specifically.

Any analogy has its limit, but it is a good tool to explain a concept. A good image is beter than tons of speeches. So there is nothing bad to compare it to computers, well except the fact that you seem to suck in this field.

A very intresting post Apocryphe.
The more I look at the Matrix, the more I get the feeling that the machines controlled way more then is shown.

Quote:

Councillor Harmann: It makes one wonder, just what is control?

I first got the feeling when I was thinking about Zion(s) and the hovercrafts remarkable survival of the previous destructions of Zion. Wich made me think, the machines could give the freshly choosen 23 people all they need. A (almost) intact Zion, some hovercrafts, and some knowlegde, about the past ,the Matrix etc.

This seems to fit nicely into the pattern of (total) control.

Apocryphe wrote:

The real power of the One is to merge with the anti-One, and to destroy it IF he accepts to do so. Finally, the One is the represantant of the human race, he's there to make a decision, a choice. The other powers were given to Neo in order to assure his surviving in the Matrix. All the rest is a big lie to bring him in the Architecte's room and convince Smith that he must take over Neo. Note that the Architecte only spook about refusing the program and menacing the system, not about powers.

Do you think that Neo was doomed to be the One, who has to make the choices for all humankind, since the beginning of his life?

I tend to agree that this is Neo's purpose: to make the difficult choices. But how it has happened that it is him?
- Was it a DOOM that the system has chosen Neo? (this is equal to the exlanation by Neo being a sum of a remainder of some mysterious equation - just in more eloquent and technical words)
- Or has the system TESTED Neo (and all the other people too) and Neo was the One who passed all the crucial tests? (this is quite close to the gnostic explanation - that there is certain prearranged way that consist of tests and milestones and therefore only few can reach the end ... and become the One)
- Another view is that it was Neo himself, who CHOSE to be the One, who decided to bear the weight of such decisions because he become aware that there is the need to decide. It could be him, who realized that the turning point is at hand - a point where the current path is coming to the crossroads - and it happened so that he found an unexpected way out. This way was quite different from those seen by the Architect or the Oracle. However, both of them (and a bunch or others: Trinity, Morpheus, Hamman, Sati ...) helped Neo to find this path. (this concept may be close to Nietche's philosophy of will, but also to the scietific view that is hesitant to admit the previous two options)

Personally, the last exlanation sounds best to me. One reason is the widest allowance for freedom. Other is the chance that something new and unexpected may occur - and this is bundled with freedom too.

Maybe all three explanations are just different views to the same thing and there is more of them possible and equally right or true. This eclectic view appears to be the widest and all-embracing but it may just imply hesitancy to choose. It also doubts the premise that there is something like a choice ... and if it could be taken one step further, it doubts the existence itself.

This is a dangerous way of questioning. There is no way back. And the danger lies in the fact that it does not seems to be so. You have to be brave enough to reach the end. Otherwise you gets lost or crazy or mad or empty ... all the synonyms of modern world, I guess.

Let's put the question differently: is it a good way to take? is it a good question to ask? does it have a heart? what led me here, to ask questions like this? ... and that needs enduring courage .

DeAdLy_cOoKiE ™ wrote:

Whatever people do, say, create, it is all based on ones PAST.

Yes. But I would like to add that not only on the past. Also on expected future and on present feelings. Also coincidence is important - just assume Einstein's understanding of time: that synchronous is also at the same place.

What I want to say is that I am quite doubtful to such overwhelming simplifications - they are useful but it depends on context and on the limits of such simple model.

Quote:

Wich made me think, the machines could give the freshly choosen 23 people all they need. A (almost) intact Zion, some hovercrafts, and some knowlegde, about the past ,the Matrix etc. This seems to fit nicely into the pattern of (total) control.

Exactly my thought. Imho, the 23 first people are told that the One negociated a peace agreement and that the machines would help them to build Zion. Or maybe that they're programs like Bane, pretending that they're with us while instead they just manipulate us.

Quote:

Do you think that Neo was doomed to be the One,

All depends on the definition you have of pre-destination .

My personal theory is that the Oracle chooses who is going to be the One. But the person she will choose must have some specific qualities (hence all these orphans that she's training). That's why she said that she's there to unbalance the equation. That's why Smith called her Mom, she created the new Smith. She's pulling the strings.

Any of them could become the One, but she'll choose the person who is more likely to help achieving her plans. For example, Neo has an unconscious need for love and would do anything for his woman, but he had no faith in destiny neither in the Oracle and was too rebelous.

Note that he didn't think that he was the One when he tried to save Morpheus, wich means that he finally decided to truste the Oracle (remember when he was talking to himself saying "that's impossible, it can't be a coincidence" etc.) and according to me, the Oracle would never give the power to someone who is not ready to follow her (note that Neo always follow her since Morph tol him that the Oracle told him what he needed to hear).

Quote:

Neo himself, who CHOSE to be the One

I think that Neo didn't really choose, he was just himself. If the Oracle didn't need Neo to refuse the reload for the sake of love, she would have picked someone else. So it is also depending on the situation, the external parameters.

Quote:

Personally, the last exlanation sounds best to me. One reason is the widest allowance for freedom.

The problem is that you receive a power, you don't take it. How can u gain a power when you're only a part of the system, that you have been created by the system ?
Answer : when the system needs you, it will give all the power you need to do what it expect you to don at least that's how I see it.

Apocryphe wrote:

The problem is that you receive a power, you don't take it. How can u gain a power when you're only a part of the system, that you have been created by the system ?

Why the power cannot be taken? Is there really someone who posses the whole power and is able to give it to Neo?

If you are a part of the system and the system is not static, the relations within the system are changeable and there is therefore the chance that the power (the ability to affect the systems) may rise or decline. I don't think that the whole system (matrix) is RULED by someone, for example by the Architect. He is also a part of the system - his duty is probably to balance the contradictions within the system. There is no one at the top the hierarchy who is able to give a power because the hierarchy is not total. There can be several centers of power: Merovingian, Oracle, Architect, agents, Zionites ... and they seemed to be in balance. But then something happened, new elements came in and the power within the system has shifted to Neo and Smith. There was also a balance but quite unstable. Neo and Smith could not coexist -> there were two different paths to more stable arrangement: 1/ destruction of all by Smith or 2/ destruction of Smith and consequential changes within the system. There was no way back to the previous arrangement and Neo was the catalyzer of such change. He got into the position, where he could very easily outweight the unstable balance (note: just do not imagine the situation like common scales because there is not a reversibity implied by this image).
It is like when you are at the top of the mountain and there is a big boulder. The energy you have to use to send it into the valley is much smaller then to released energy and there could be more, and also very distant, valleys and it depends on you, which of these destinations for the boulder you choose. But to get to the boulder could be difficult.

So, I think that Neo's powers stem from his POSITION within the system, where he came through his choices and where he was also led by the system. I guess that Oracle knew that the new (and possibly better) balanced arrangement of the system could be reached only by shifting the system into highly unbalanced state, from which the new state could be reached. But she didn't know which of the several possible states will be chosen. That was the risk.

This explanation is based on the approach by Prigogine & Stengers in the Order Out of Chaos, where is much better explanation of the development of complex systems and that the complexity is possible precisly due to the irreversibility of natural processes.

Quote:

Why the power cannot be taken? Is there really someone who posses the whole power and is able to give it to Neo?

Because the system created you. You're part of it, you cannot master it, even if it gives you the illusion of that. As Merv said, choice is an illusion to separate those who have power from those who have not.

Let's take an example : you write a book with a story. Will the characters suddenly have a power that you didn't expect ? Even the most powerfull character of the book will always do what you decide him to do.

Quote:

There is no one at the top the hierarchy who is able to give a power because the hierarchy is not total

I agree that there is not a particular program ruling the Matrix. However, I think that there is a basic principle (not even in the code but in the very nature of the hardware generating the source code, it is a mathematical principle) that make it impossible for the Matrix to crash from a program problem.
However, it can crash because of external threats.

Quote:

So, I think that Neo's powers stem from his POSITION within the system, where he came through his choices and where he was also led by the system.

Agreed.

Quote:

system into highly unbalanced state, from which the new state could be reached.

Yes that's what I think. I view it like this : the machines who created the source built a basic numeric system (like binary or something). From an hardare point of view, the language has been built in such a way that it cannot be broken (it is written on an read-only hardware).

Therefore, no matter what happens with the programs created by that system, it can only survive. And that's what all these battles between programs is : a fight for an equilibrium. The programs must die so that the system live. A program wich does not die can only grow with the time going on (more memory space, more power inside of the system) and note that's exactly what is happening with Smith.

But no matter what happens, the programs will balance each other, that's why Neo exist.

My theory is that the machines are using human brains as processor units. Therefore, programs are part human and humans are part program. The battle between the anomaly and Deus Ex is thus the result of that duality, the system is trying to reach a stable state where every human will accept to behave like a program (just as Neo at the end) but only if the program will have human-like feelings.

That's why Sati is so important, she's the prototype of that equilibrated state where man meets machine.
If every human reached that state (the state of Neo), then the Matrix would become a big entity where every human would be like the cell of a whole body.
That's a theory that Karl Popper gave as an example, and we know that Karl Popper is the matrix-name of the Kid