»Neo wasnt supposed to die (ask Agent Smith)«

Was Neo supposed to have been shot and killed by agent Smith in the first Matrix? Was this really something that was supposed to happen to follow the path of the One?

The movies make so many hints that certain things took place before, or that history is repeating, and the Architect basically tells Neo that he was essentially destined to perform a certain function.

But, even as Smith says "everything is happening exactly as before," he says "well, not exactly"

Exactly! Smith was always a part of the system before- he was able to recall the previous versions of the Matrix to Morpheus- he was there, and he was a part of the system, working on the side of the Matrix. He had never before turned against it, never rebelled against its rules. We can tell because in the first movie he is still an agent. Why? Because of something else that should be obvious: Smith never died before. He's right there when the movie begins.

Smith is later killed by Neo. This is after Neo was shot and killed in the hallway of the hotel. In the second movie we are shown a parallel between Neo and Smith. Smith is sort of an anti-Neo, both opposite and same. But even before we see this parallel when they first fought in the subway passage, mirroring each other's moves and pointing their guns at each other and saying "youre empty" "so are you".

That was also the first time Smith and Neo fought. Seraph says this is the only way to truly know someone else. Did Smith recoginize something inherently different in Neo that set him apart from his predessors which warranted trying to kill him? Is part of Smith's function to protect the Matrix from a version of the One that might not fulfill its duty? See, if Smith never died before, I think maybe the One never died before either. And since Neo is the only One who comes back from the dead 'reborn' in the Matrix, it triggers whatever "compells" Smith not to obey the rules he previously followed.

the original reason for Smith wanted to kill Neo is because he was told to by his master (the architect). Then, as the film went on, we find out that Smith is beginning to gain emotion, to turn more human. He begins to hate the Matrix and so the only way out is through Morpheus (the Zion codes) who is being protected by Neo. The power of the machines is there because they do not have emotion. Smith failed as a program because he began to feel emotion. Neo and Smith's path cross each other as the film progresses, with Neo becoming much more calm and 'machine-like' and Smith becoming more and more human.

Smith blames Neo for 'setting him free', as he said, from the system and taking away his purpose (killing the ONEs).

Here a paradox is created. Smith wants to kill Neo because Neo has taken his purpose. But killing Neo is now Smith's purpose. So Neo has given him a purpose. Confusing? Yes.

MantaRay wrote:

the original reason for Smith wanted to kill Neo is because he was told to by his master (the architect).

I think that by fighting Neo, Agent Smith realized that something was much different between Neo and his predecessors (the previous Ones) and that this either triggers his program to automatically adjust to the threat level and to kill Neo, or to exert himself more vigorously within the parameters of his purpose, to do everything in his power to stop Neo for personal reasons (his own hatred of humans and the matrix).

I think that the programs seem very capable of emotion: anger, lust, and wrath are displayed by Smith, Merovingian, and Persephone. Further more benevolent emotions are shown by the Oracle. True love itself might be beyond their grasp, but there is nothing said at all to hint that programs are incapable of emotion.

Maybe NEO was not suppose to Kill Smith.

Remember the Oracle did say Neo was waiting for another life.
Trininy was to fall in love with the one. - New to Matrix ver 3.6
Smith says Neo was not meant to TAKE smiths purpose.
-technically i guess the one would had woken up and taken the phone and exited the matrix.
WE DONT KNOW.
OR Smith's change is also - Neo to Matrix 3.6
If the KEymaker was no longer necessary, then the machine might have been expecting to kill Neo.

oh man... so many theories... the answers are coming.... why does my head hurt? you've never used it before... doh

Andromeda wrote:

Maybe NEO was not suppose to Kill Smith. If the KEymaker was no longer necessary, then the machine might have been expecting to kill Neo.

hmm


Although I believe "the one" isnt supposed to die in the matrix, I do find it interesting that system finds the keymaker (exile) not neceessary in helping Neo to the source.

Sorry for steering of course. so btt.

IMO, Neo needed to die to know he was "the one". When he revived and saw everthing in code, he did something that no one else did before him....kill Smith. What happened the previous 5 times is a complete mystery.

Andromeda wrote:

Maybe NEO was not suppose to Kill Smith. Smith says Neo was not meant to TAKE smiths purpose.

he says the opposite:
Smith: "Perhaps some part of you imprinted onto me, something overwritten or copied. That is at this point irrelevant, what matters is that whatever happened, happened for a reason."

SpyHunter wrote:

IMO, Neo needed to die to know he was "the one". When he revived and saw everthing in code, he did something that no one else did before him....kill Smith. What happened the previous 5 times is a complete mystery.

IMHO, Neo wouldnt have needed to die to know he was the One, at least on the same level as his predecessors. We can assume that the One never died before for two reasons:

1) Neo is brought back to life by Trinity and love. The Architect tells Neo that the other "Ones" did not have this sort of affection for a specific person. So if one of them had died, how would they have come back to life?

2) Smith was Neo's double/shadow before Neo kills him. If he played a similar role in the cases of the previous "One's", then the fact that Smith never died indicates that no "One" previously had to die in order to go to the Source.

If this line of reasoning is correct, then Neo's death may have given him more power than any other "One" before him. Like Obi-Wan, cutting him down only made him more powerful. I am guessing that this change- Neo dying and coming back- made all the things Neo is doing actually special. We know there were previous "One's", but they might have only had a fraction of the power Neo has. And since Neo overshadows all his predecessors, he is in his own class- he is THE One.

I like your point... however whatever happaned happaned for a reason could have a different meaning... lets look at the rest of the quote:

Smith: I killed you, Mister Anderson, I watched you die... With a certain satisfaction, I might add, and then something happened. Something that I knew was IMPOSSIBLE, but it happened anyway.You destroyed me, Mister Anderson. Afterward, I knew the rules, I understood what I was supposed to do but I didn't. I couldn't. I was compelled to stay, compelled to disobey. And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed - I'm unplugged - a new man, so to speak, like you, apparently free.

Smith's purpose might had been to kill Neo, and hope the anomaly would reproduce later on on a different human. However he makes evident that Smith being destroyed was not a part of the plan. Obviously Smiths' purpose is to kill Neo, which then again could depend on your theories of machine free will etc. Smith chose exile as opose to delition and now he plans to kill Neo. based on the upgraded agent Jackson's reaction of "you" with a surprise, I assume the smiths are not part of the plan.

Also the Architect said that Neo's path was "based on a similar predication - a contingent affirmation" meaning they are predicting what Neo is going to do based on the choices that are provided to him. Neo could had simply woken up, and exited the Matrix, or do it Kid's style and wake up without taking an exit.

Smith didn't say you destroyed me cause that was part of the plan.
THEN AGAIN it is possible that it was part of the new plan (depending how you interpret the dialogue of different characters.

HOWEVER I still believe NEO was not suppose to take Smiths purpose. Smith was suppose to kill Neo. Wether the agents have limited understaing or knowledge of the world outside of the matrix could also change this theory. So lets agree we disagree.

StaticAge wrote:

Was Neo supposed to have been shot and killed by agent Smith in the first Matrix? Was this really something that was supposed to happen to follow the path of the One?

I believe Neo's life would have had to be in jeopary before he would even attempt to assume the role of 'The One.' The Oracle hinted at this with the 'what are you waiting for...' part. It stands to reason the the Matrix would have been constructed so as to force the issue (him assuming the ones identity). And if that is the case... (most likely) he wouldn't have died anyway at that point in 'Matrix time.'

Enter the Matrix (the game) adds to this last thought of mine with the man that says '24 hours. That's how long Zon lasted last time.' So to expand that... 'The One' couldn't save Zion the previous 5 or 6 times (from the conversation with the Architect [assuming he was truthfull]), and would have HAD to have reached the same location each time (talking to the Architect), at which point in time, the choice is presented to him -- Left or Right door. It seems that from the dialog and order of the man's statement of 24 hours, that the only REAL important choice that can be made is which door. But still seems fruitless, as either way Zion is destroyed.

Note: It is only after talking with the Architect that Neo can feel the Sentinel's.

Now tack on the conversation in Matrix 2 with the Marovincian dude, about choice, and it isn't too hard to see that each Neo has to choose the Red pill, has to love Trinity, has to be forced into using "The One's" powers, has to get the Keymaker to get to the Architect, and so forth.

Also the conversation with the Oracle in Matrix 2, something about 'its not about choice, but understanding why you are going to do something.' Once again hinting that Neo really doesn't have many choices (at this point it would seem, but I'll leave it open for Matrix 3).

So, my conclusion (date me, it may change later) is that he could not die (and fail) when Agent Smith shot him in Matrix 1. To quote Smith in Matrix 2, "It is inevitable." But it seems that now he can by the way Matrix 2 ended with him sustaining damage from the Sentinels.

Note: Did you notice the extra/replacement Agent (bringing the Agent count back to 3, excluding Agent Smith) at the beginning of Matrix 2. And when they 'died' none of them reverted back the civilians they had 'possesed.' Interesting eh?

And Lastly, I too agree that the first difference (of the 5 previous times) is that Neo killed Smith. Smith seemed to profer 'well that was a first' in more of a round about way in the Matrix 2.

StaticAge wrote:

IMHO, Neo wouldnt have needed to die to know he was the One, at least on the same level as his predecessors. We can assume that the One never died before for two reasons: 1) Neo is brought back to life by Trinity and love.

Exactly, Neo was brought back by love. Trinity needed to feel the loss of him in order to shed her fear and tell him she loved him.

In essence, he needed to die to accept the program and become the one.

1 The Architect tells Neo that the love he shares with Trinity is different from the previous Ones. Therefore the One was never in love before, which means that as far as the One fulfilling his purpose, falling in love isnt supposed to really matter.

2 My point is that, yes, Neo seems to be doing things that previous Ones did too. After all, its a matter of time, not hope, right? But we no way of knowing what powers the previous Ones may have had (other than being able to shape the Matrix from within) or whether or not Trinity was even in any of the previous versions. We can guess, but there is no evidence. Similarly, we have no evidence of how much of what Neo does was done by his predecessors either... but we can figure some of them out.

3 Smith on the other hand DEFINITELY was in previous versions of the Matrix. Smith also DEFINITELY did not die. Nowhere does it say that the One died before.

4 Considering that Smith was there before, why was he surprised Neo comes back to life? He should have known that the One couldnt stay dead. He would have seen the One's ressurrection before. His surprise is because the One never died before, and never came back from the dead either.

5 Smith is Neo's shadow and vice versa. Smith never died before because the One never died before. Smith also cant obey the rules because he is trapped by this same bond he shares with Neo- if Neo continues to live, he cant die either because he has to mirror him.

6 I think Neo does have choices to make, and freely. When the Oracle says he already decided, she refers to the fact of how he interpreted his dream: although it looks like trinity bit the dust and how, he says he doesnt know if she's dead. Its like the old riddle 'is the glass half empty or half full?' Neo is an optimist- he cant accept Trinity dying. He had made his choice, and apparently that choice was one the others hadnt made. Same for falling in love- a choice others didnt make.