»Thomas Chypher Judas or the other Jesus«

I could say Cypher does not seem to match the Judas character... in to a certain level.

I allways loved the "Last temptation of Christ" by Scorsese, because his judas had such a stamina and spirit - we could understand him - and the Judas of the Gospells is simply non understandable...

We could say Cypher was jealous of Neo (because of Trin);

Could someone be jealous of the Gnostic Jesus because of his Godess counterpart (Mary Magdalen - the lover/ Mary mother of James (and Joseph, Judas and Salome) - Mother of Jesus/ Salome - Jesus's Sister - the three women that stand besides Jesus in his death/resurrection process?

We could say he was selvish (because he was willing to sacrifice everybody's life - the crew, Zionists and the hope of those connected to the matrix that did want to wake up) just because of his own fear and tireness on a war he considered without hope - thus, without purpose...

Could we see Judas (and Iskarioth, a Sicarious, a rebel agains the empire's oppression) being selvish and treasoning the deceptive Messiah?
One that did not take the force of the arms to fight the empire and simply offered his own life as a fee to free humans from the bondage of death?

He's the opposite to Morpheus - he says so in his "little speech" upon Morpheus's body, when Morphes's RSI is on the interrogatory room - Morpheus, as said in Rel and Rev is the simbol of Zion's belief ("He's the one who believes in Miracles" - Locke

"He brought hope to this people - the hope that we can win this war" - Niobe)

More than this would be cruel to say.

I doubt about a dualist conception of the world - things are "good" or "bad" just if we identify with them and we loose the sense of perspective and neutrality (and this is easy to happen);

He's a bit of Judas (I've allways thought it was funny his name was Reagan and he "wanted to be someone famous, maybe an actor" when reinserted to the matrix ]

But, this is the "bad Judas" - one we simply judge without understanding...

Maybe Judas was the stronger of the disciples - how then would we explain Jesus's choice upon him if he was not so?

He, Jesus, choosed him first; and Jesus knew he had to die, and to the prophecy be fulfilled, someone had to betray him - Judas was the chosen...

One interesting issue - there's a man called "Thomas" - one of the twelve - that walked with Jesus...

Using the Gnostic many refferences within the Matrix context, I would dare this little exercise:

Thomas's name was - Thomas Judas Didumus (as said in the Gospell of Thomas, from the Nag Hammadi library);

Thomas means "twin" in aramaic/ Didumus means "twin" in greek...

Acording to the gospell, THomas was the disciple that most understood Jesus's words and Jesus's mysteries - Gospell of Thomas - appocripha;

In the gospell of John (I think I'm recalling this correctly) the two disciples that were not present after the resurrection - when Jesus first appears to the disciples were... Judas and Thomas - Judas because he was, supposedly death (he commited suicide - but so does christ who gives himself willingly to be killed!) and... Thomas - to whom we simply are not given an explanation to his absence.

Thomas appears afterwards, and deserves an apparition of christ just to make him believe (this is the episode of the wounds in Jesus's hands, feet and flank);

If Thomas was Judas, then we would understand better his doubt (in the end, he was the one who was commanded to give Jesus to the authorities, at Jesus's own command!) and, most important - he was so dear to Jesus that deserved an apparition just to wash his guilt away);

The story of the suicide it's odd (in one version he hungs his neck froma tree, in the other he throws himself from a precipice - seems a bit strange, and only built afterwards to put the guilt upon a man called Juda - the only one that was from the province of Judea - the others were all of them Galilean;

It seems a painfull and maquiavelic manipulation of later christian writters to justify the persecutions upon the jews (the jews started to be persecuted near Jesus's time, under the rule of the empire - they were expelled from Rome some years before Jesus was supposed to be born);

Well, if you havent fall asleep yet, I would say Cypher's (means his name hides some Cyphred meaning) role it's a bit as Judas - he exists to confirm Neo/Jesus as the One - the One of the prophecy "Tell me, how can the prophecy be true if Neo/Jesus is death?"

Imagine Cypher/Judas surprise when Neo/Jesus returned from the death?

I think we see it in Thomas's reaction...

And here the final clue - Thomas A. Anderson - "twin of the Son of Man" - one of the versions of the anomaly, one of the Ones...

Some things have connections that go deeper than we think... or maybe not ]

yes ive heard this all before, but thomas is also refered to as doubting thomas. thats why he never believed until after he was shot

...has been an attribute that all the good philosophers had and which made them grow from within respecting others ideologies and beliefs...

Opposing all those who "believed without seeing", Thomas believed but had also a "head" to use and support his beliefs...

Without so many "dogmatic" christians, less people would had burnt in the fires of inquisition - trying to save souls at the cost of rosting bodies...

Not so many Jews would have been persecuted under the excuse that Jews killed the Christ...

We could ask directly to the heirs of the Incas about their past...

Muslims and Occidental people would be in a better stance than they do...

Sócrates would have been a lot better apostol than many...

So, Thomas, for me, it's one of the most balanced among all of those.

I think that - if someone told him to kill in the name of the Christ, he would had doubet first...

The twin is important to the Mysteries; the Greek word is eidolon, from which I think we also get the English word idol (though I might be mistaken). The eidolon is the witnessed image of him who is witnessing - a Twin Image (like the brand of the television Morpheus uses in the Construct).

As lusiada said, Thomas is Aramaic, Didymos Greek, and both mean 'twin.' The Gnostics who created the myths gave Jesus a 'twin brother,' who is usually identified as Thomas. The witnessed eidolon must have a witness, called Daemon in Greek, signified by Jesus in Christian myth. It's not the 'demon' that later Christianity created; the pure form of the word means simply the immortal essence of self.

In some Gnostic Christian texts, it was Jesus' twin, and not Jesus himself, who was crucified! It is not entirely contradictory to the canon, either: From the standpoint of the Mysteries, it encodes the idea that the witness (immortal Daemon) is independent of the witnessed (eidolon), and that that which is witnessed (the physical body) can be transcended by the immortal self (resurrection).

Many ways to say the same things....

In the Matrix, the eidolon/Daemon relationship is abundant, though it isn't always clear which is which. RSI, for instance, could be argued to be either. The Matrix itself is a kind of eidolon for the 'real world.'

... that's what I call a "productive" post.

If people simply say "We have talked about that yet", new people that want to discuss some topic simply will feel "out" of the site's life and thus feel not the need to participate.

Thus, some issue, analized before, may have some other posible explanations...

I doubt people will start from the beginning of page 3 and read all the topics posted before...

But they may start participating a new born topic...

I get a bit pissed off each time I read "It has been posted before" - seems as a doctor of the law speaking - closing all the doors, shutting all the paths simply because he/she has allready discussed that.

Annaellu - the eidilon/Daemon relation is surelly present - I think it started with the link Morpheus/Neo...

Neo (Mr. Anderson and Thomas) had to choose - one of them was about to die - and he had to choose which one - Morpheus - the god, or Thomas - the twin...

Morpheus - the god of dreams vs Thomas A. Anderson - the twin of the Son of Man...

Afterwards, the eidilon/Daemon's choice has adopted other apparent simbols within the matrix trilogy...

Maybe the story of the Kid is some approach to it...

Maybe the choice of the Oracle is another...

Maybe even Neo has found his "true" Daemon - sacrificing himself in the real world, maybe he assumed a different essence within the machine's realm...

"Give up your flesh... we demand it!" - Second Renaissance