»Why not cows?«

But why create a simulation instead of lobotomizing? You have to agree that the Matrix would require quite a lot of energy...

And how would you lobotomize a human ?

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And how would you lobotomize a human ?

The same way humans always have been lobotomized. By drilling a hole in their skull, etc.

You knew that, didn't you?

emp wrote:

The same way humans always have been lobotomized. By drilling a hole in their skull, etc. You knew that, didn't you?

You would think they would have taught me that in college .

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You would think they would have taught me that in college.

What kind of doctor are you?

Anyway, I guess you would agree that braindamaged persons would not require an advanced matrix like the one that exists in the movies?

I don't have my doctorate yet . I'm a physiologist , I'm getting another degree in psychobiology , and I just took the MCAT .
What kind of brain damage are you talking about ? If the person is brain damaged , how is he able to survive ?

There are many people in the world today with a brain damage. The damage may vary, but the common state is not to be able to communicate with the world in a reasonable way (or at all). But they are still alive and produce heat.

So you are talking about mental retardation . Mentaly retarded people still need a stimulus , just as normal people do . Without mental stimulation , your neural network degenerates . Ergo , using mentaly retarded people would not benefit the machines anymore than using normaly functioning people .

What about making people deaf and blind before connecting them to the matrix?

That would save a couple of megawatts in simualtion-energy-costs?

Guest? Bah.

It's me, me, me...

wow. u guys have great arguements. you got me speachless with you're knowledge.

She's talking about me

That was me

Ok guys , sorry about that , it wouldn't let me log in .

drnima wrote:

Ok guys , sorry about that , it wouldn't let me log in .

Maybe you should change the default forum style. This way you know that you are not logged in, if you see the standard forum style instead of yours.

But, on the other hand, choice is deception

drnima wrote:

If the person is brain damaged, how is he able to survive ?

You don't need the (main) brain to survive. I read that they once operated out the brain out of a dog and the dog was still living and running (against walls all of the time).

Sorry knnknn , that is incorrect . You cannot live without your brain . Our brain controls our main organs which we need for survival . The heart is the only organ capable of generating automatic depolarizations which lead to a contraction of the cardiac muscle . Our lungs for example increase in volume thanks to a contraction of the diaphragm which leads to decrease in pressure . Air goes from the high pressure of the atmosphere to the low pressure of the lungs ( that's how you breath ) . Our brain ( autonomic nervous system ) controls the contractions of the diaphragm . Just like the lungs , all the other organs in our body are controled by our brain .
It is however possible to live with a lesion in the brain , depending on where the lesion has occured . Each section of the brain controls something different . Lets say you have a tumor in the primary visual area . That part of the brain might be taken out . You will probably loose your sight , but otherwise , you will be able to function normaly .
The dog that ran into the walls probably had a lesion in the cerebellum which controls your balance .

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You cannot live without your brain

Correct but not a complete answer. You began to explain the complexities of the human brain and the division of function/control over the body, but only explained it to a level that supported your argument. Concerning what is referred to as a Lobotomy, this is the destruction of or severing of pathways within the brain. The procedure when performed, and yes it is still done today though very rarely, usually is done on the Frontal lobe(forehead area) which is primarily responsible for personality traits. Problem with the Lobotomy solution for the machines is that the human brain if stimulated will develop new pathways in other parts of the brain to compensate for the lost or damaged area.

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Our brain controls our main organs which we need for survival

But what part of the brain does this? that's the important question. Our brains can also be divided into levels or tissue types and the funtions they perform. The inner or central tissue at the base of our brain refered to as the brain stem is what control the basic life functions. Grey matter( the outer tissue) is what controls and performs our higher functions, thinking, speaking, dreaming, etc.

We had a great experiment for this back in school. Take a healthy living frog, pair of sharp scissors, plenty of bounty paper towels and a jar, introduce the frog to the scissors by gently cutting off the frogs head at the eyes. What you've done now is removed the frogs higher functions and left them on the table. The frog will go into neurological shock for about 15 minutes, but assuming you haven't cut to far, he will eventually stop spasming and become flaccid. At this point all of his organ will begin to return to normal function. For two weeks we then kept the frogs alive by feeding with a syringe and monitered their vital signs. As long as we kept them fed, warm, moist, and free from infection, they lived.

This is why in healthcare we often refer to a patient with a massive head injury and little or no higher function as a brain stem. (ie hey Judy ER is sending up a brain stem from that gun shot wound). We routinely keep these patients alive for months, years, etc. provided we can keep them free from infection. When the cortex of the brain is damaged beyond repair, but the brain stem can keep the body alive, this is what we refer to as brain dead.

Bottom line is the machines need us intact and thinking/dreaming.

i think machines chose humans for energy not only for the reasons you guys pointed out, but the quarrel between the machines and humans. i mean, isn't this how the whole thing started? maybe they had the same gain if they used cows, but maybe used humans since there were so any of us and possibly some sort of revenge. that's a weak arguement on why humans. but what do you think?

Think about it, if you look at how the real wolrd looks in the matrix, it dosn't look like there are many cows around, humans probably killed all the other animals(and invented some sort of fake meat to eat)

In the polls, there is a majority which is assing the whole energy reasoning as bltant nonsense. Indeed, it is one of the weakest concept of the movie and hardly enough to drive the story. I think there wouldnt be a deeper revelation of the makers. They are just humans and prone of poor ideas, aren't they?

The first movie was made as a stand alone movie, and in that movie there was no other reason for the matrix than to use humans as energy. We were supposed to accept that explanation. But we didn't. So now they are going to reload us. The Universe Reloaded.

emp wrote:

The first movie was made as a stand alone movie

Was it? The Wachowski bros told:
Question: "Did you know right away that it would be a trilogy?
Wachowski brothers: "We knew we had too much material for one movie."

knnknn wrote:

emp wrote: The first movie was made as a stand alone movie Was it? The Wachowski bros told: Question: "Did you know right away that it would be a trilogy? Wachowski brothers: "We knew we had too much material for one movie."

Which can be read as

"No, but we knew we had too much material for one movie."

Anonymous wrote:

Think about it, if you look at how the real world looks in the matrix, it doesn't look like there are many cows around, humans probably killed all the other animals(and invented some sort of fake meat to eat)

That is the only explanation I have heard yet that solves the whole "cow" or whatever animal you want to think of problem.

If the war had killed about every living thing except humans and the machines then maybe humans were the readily available animal to use.

Makes since.