»Free-will«

In Reloaded, in the park scene before Burly Brawl, The Oracle has a conversation with Neo that takes to the whole "God gives us free-will" thing.

Quote:

The Oracle: Bingo! It is a pickle, no doubt about it. The bad news is there's no way if you can really know whether I'm here to help you or not. So it's really up to you. You just have to make up your own damn mind to either accept what I'm going to tell you, or reject it. Candy? Neo: D'you already know if I'm going to take it? The Oracle: Wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't. Neo: But if you already know, how can I make a choice? The Oracle: Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now.

OK...let me explain. See The Oracle as God talking to someone. That someone is having a hard time trying to understand free-will, he actually thinks free-will is bullshit. What The Oracle tells Neo when he questions free-will is actually a better explanation than the one we get everytime we dare to question free-will. Although it denies the existance of free-will. See, if you are not in this world to make choices and to take control of the path your own life goes, but to understand why your life is going that way, then you really don't have a choice.

Feel free to comment.

I always liked that philosophy. Its awesome.

Thanks

I would like to know your points of view in this matter and discuss them.

The whole "choice vs. fate & causality" theme of the movie is great!


Indeed.

But, not speaking for myself, in another thread called "Choice vs Omnmiscient Being" , or something, this has already been analized (or more correctly "is still being discussed")

Anyway, since that thread has become mudled up, I think it is beast to start of NEW, without Bullshit that has been "void-ed"

Many people have trouble understanding that someone can make a choice, long before that choice has some effect on their life.

Like the "candy" and the "cookie". The choice to take the candy might not have happend that instant, the choice may have been made "subconsiously" many years ago.

"I love candy" can be interpreted as "Oh, I just love the taste and the way you toss and turn it in your mouth" so, this means "whenever I see candy (or are offered" I will take because it gives me plesure to eat candy)

Does this make sense to anyone ?

Free will and fate are one in the same to my way of thinking, because both of the them control us, where as desiny, you can choose your own path, understand why you chose that path. Both of them end in the same place, but you can only know why and how you gothere through destiny.

Also by what MatrixArchitect said about making a choice before it has already happend, comes down to fate again.

I may be miles of with my answer to the question. but this is the first time i have discused the notion of "Fate, free will, and or destiny" so i am sorry.

Quote:

Like the "candy" and the "cookie". The choice to take the candy might not have happend that instant, the choice may have been made "subconsiously" many years ago. "I love candy" can be interpreted as "Oh, I just love the taste and the way you toss and turn it in your mouth" so, this means "whenever I see candy (or are offered" I will take because it gives me plesure to eat candy)

It seems that another way to phrase this is that anytime I am faced with a decision, my choice will be subjective due to my own personal experiences. When faced with candy, I will choose to take it because I like candy.

I agree with MatrixArchitect. Let's start off a new thread on free will. The one called "Free Will vs. an Omniscient Being" is great, but it's getting pretty long to read. So I suggest we post our main ideas and continue discussion here.

And when this one gets too long, abandon it too?

G'Day to all in this thread.

Can any of you give me the titles to some lit on "FATE" or "FREE-WILL", to read, so that i can contribute some more in this discussion.

Cheers from Neo1

Neo1 wrote:

Can any of you give me the titles to some lit on "FATE" or "FREE-WILL", to read, so that i can contribute some more in this discussion.

Don't you even have an opinion? I mean, I've read a lot of different things, in a lot of different subjects, all of which contribute to my general opinions and speculations about the meaning of life and all that.

The question is, mate, what do YOU think?

Quote:

Life is like a game of cards. The hand you are dealt is determinism; the way you play it is free will. Attributed to: Jawaharial Nehru (1889-1964) Indian politician

Right, after I just got done saying "what do you think" I go and put what someone else thought. But then,

Quote:

That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. -Ecclesiastes 1:9 NASB

annaerullo wrote:

Neo1 wrote: Can any of you give me the titles to some lit on "FATE" or "FREE-WILL", to read, so that i can contribute some more in this discussion. Don't you even have an opinion? I mean, I've read a lot of different things, in a lot of different subjects, all of which contribute to my general opinions and speculations about the meaning of life and all that. The question is, mate, what do YOU think?

Yeh, do have an opinon, but i just wanted to read up on the subject of Fate and free will thats all.

You will find some stuff here:

Thanks oscargabrielp...

You're welcome Neo1

One great man once said (it was me ) :

"Omnipotence can only be the fact of one unique being" (sorry for the bad english)

So, pretending to have free-will is just like pretending that a character of a comicbook had his own ability to choose what will happend next in the story.