»The Simple Theory«

my theory

For me the discussion of a Matrix within a Matrix, although interesting is not the most relevant. The final part of the trilogy could in theory have been written either way, some questions would need to be cleared up more than others, but it could be done. Personally I quite like the neatness of the previous versions being levels of the Matrix on top of each other. But either way this does not effect what I consider the main principle of the film - Neo's journey.

i dont like the "Neo is a program notion". I agree that by analysing the script you can draw some conlcusions toward this, however, it is not correct. Neo is Human - get used to it!
For me the film is a metaphor for the "upward" journey of wisdom/knowledge/hope/determination in Neo's mind, it would be a great shame if the fantastic representations of this metaphor in films 1 & 2 are undermined by a pointless twist in the 3rd film.

I will eat my hat if neo is a progam! (And its a big hat!)


If in reloaded he is able to strike a deal then he has defeated the system - in one way the machines are not the enemy - its the system created by them that is the enemy.

This is analagous to our real world - we have a system which we created, and it isnt very fair to all human beings - many people fight against this system - to beat this system would not mean slaughtering every human being on earth - to beat the system would be to remove system with wisdom, to strike a new deal between everybody.


I also dont think that it is necessary to try and litterally explain things like how Neo sees Trinity falling before it happens:

As we already know "the one" has the ability to control the Matrix as he see's fit. In other words - as Neo's Wisdom grows he has more and more ability to control his destiny i.e. the ability to "shape" his future.

Couple this with Morpheus's quote in the first movie:

"there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"

And then you can intepret images like Trinity as Neo "knowing the path". This image is a problem for Neo, he doesnt understand it, and it manifests itself as a nightmare.

Now take the oracles quote in reloaded:
"we can never see passed the choices we do not understand".

Up until the point when Neo actually catches Trinity he did not understand this image - he just knew this formed a moment in his "path" perhaps you could describe it as a metaphorical milestone.

consider the Oracles comment: "you are looking at the world without time now neo"

Now, if you discount time as being the primary driver on a metaphorical "path". Then its not that he understands the image after he has caught her but the exact moment he catches her represents neo understanding how to walk his "path". the milestone in time and understanding are co-incendent. (we could also talk here about "reason" there is a reason for this event......)

Milestones represent the bringing together of knowing and walking the path, almost like a test, each one is there for a reason, once understood neo moves forward to the next step on his inner journey.

my thoughts why Smith is such a main character then:

In my opinion Neo is totally human and is the anomoly - Smith is a program but is becoming more "humanised" throughout the adventure. The path neo is following is shaping the matrix around himself, this is having the greatest effect on smith. i will try and explain:

I think maybe the part of neo that ws copied or printed onto smith in M1 was neo taking the opportunity to "shed" some "dirty" or evil part human code while destroying smith, (like the part of the code the architect speaks of inherent in every human being).

This could make sense because Neo would actually be taking the opportunity to send this part of the code back to the source with smith.

(The obvious metaphor here is Neo being a hacker)

In effect by the end of of the M1 Neo had taken a step towards the purest kind of thought.

Instead of returning to the source Smith thrived on this new part of the code - combine his original programme single minded, powerfull, destructive, bounty hunter with the human code Neo didn't want (I expect this would include ego, envy, greed) then you have a total meglomaniac.

The reason why Smith his so important is because he is basically Neo's "alter-ego". This idea would work in some ways with Neo not just blasting everything away at the end of M3 (as posted above). If he is able to make an agreement with Smith to end the inprosonment of mankind he is actually "taming" or even winning over this bad side. (metophorically HIS bad side or even the "DARK SIDE" of humanity)

thats the way i look at it anyway - and I love it!

Something in your post got my special attention:

"Neo catches Trinity on his dreams"

actually, he doesnt ! Trinity falls upon a car in the dream but
neo catches her after leaving the Architet.

Maybe this is signal that something is really different from the expected
path for the one ?

Strav wrote:

Something in your post got my special attention: actually, he doesnt ! Trinity falls upon a car in the dream but neo catches her after leaving the Architet.

Actually, Trinity does not fall upon the car. It is the Agent that fell onto the car. Neo was unable to see past the choice he could not understand, blocking himself out of his vision, ergo leaving it incomplete.

"you've already made the choice, now you have to understand it" the oracle tells him.

For me this means that Neo has made the choice that he will free humanity - obviously falling in love with trinity and being presented with binary choices which clash with this has confused this a little.

The Oracle further confussed this by basically blackmailing Neo by saying - you have made the choice to free humanity - but this means she will die - you have to do it because you are the One.

(If neo had not have off-loaded some negative code into Smith then saving humantiy may have appealed to the emotions of greed, ego etc!, the incident with smith is as important as the trinity "choice" to this version of the one being different his predesssors.)

He IS the One and does not forget what this really means. The architect gives him a binary choice with one of the answers presenting an apparantly logical decision and the other presenting an emotional decision. In my opinion Neo rises above this - in a very pure way - he has choosen not to make the choice as presented to him. He makes up his own third outcome which he is his "path".

The architect cannot understand this: when Neo warns him that he should hope they won't meet again he replys "we won't" the architect is sure of this, absolutely sure because the door is the choice and thats it! Black OR White!

What is control? Control is telling someone what the "doors" mean. But when Neo walks out and threatens him he is actually saying "I don't really like your doors Mr, who are you to tell me what doors I have, especially if you give me such an unreasonable choice, I am going to go through both"

Why should we (humanity) have to fit into binary logic in a situation like this? the anwser is not even a yes or a no, that would not make sense. The question is enough, the question is the splinter.

It is at this moment that he "understands" this milstone. Now he can proceed.

@diemkai

Obviously you belong to the “literalist” camp of Matrix.
Anyhow, I would like to argue one of the ideas from your original post.

diemkai wrote:

I think maybe the part of neo that ws copied or printed onto smith in M1 was neo taking the opportunity to "shed" some "dirty" or evil part human code while destroying smith, (like the part of the code the architect speaks of inherent in every human being).

I am not quite sure about your concept of humanity, but if you believe in the essential conflict inherent in human nature –good can not exist without evil, right without wrong, … - , "shedding" some "dirty" or “evil” part of human code will cause Neo to become another entity, maybe a god, therefore Neo will not be “human” anymore.

Nevertheless it will cause Smith to become more human, but that code will not be erased from Neo, just copied or printed unto Smith.

HolEavataR wrote:

Actually, Trinity does not fall upon the car. It is the Agent that fell onto the car. Neo was unable to see past the choice he could not understand, blocking himself out of his vision, ergo leaving it incomplete.

Please take a moment to read HolEavataR post.

Neo sees something crashing unto a car, he does not see Trinty crashing unto the car. As we come to see later in the movie, it is the agent falling unto the car, the exact same fashion Neo foresaw it.

Regards,

Atreides

@Arteides

your are right: my words don’t explain my concept of humanity – Its really important so I’ll try and clear it up a bit:

I don’t believe human beings are inherently evil, I strongly disagree with the architect on this issue (I think neo also disagrees with him on this too)

However, there is no doubt that our system (in particular in the late 20th century) has the effect of producing society in which these negative emotions are abundant. “Some consider this the peak of our civilisation” – I do not, it depends on what you use as performance indicators!

I think human beings have the potential to make a journey analogous to Neo’s. Its difficult to find the right words to explain the goal of this journey – I guess enlightenment (although I don’t mean religious), balance and harmony would be appropriate for starters.

Take it a step further and you can apply this not only to individuals but to society in general.

The uber-meaning or the “why” of the trilogy may be taken as the same why we can ask of society – why are we so “unbalanced”?, are we inherently evil?, why can we not move forward when there is something fundamentally wrong with the world the way is?

Can we as a conscious collective society move away from the notions of wickedness, evil, ego’s etc? (I think yes, why not)

Neo has done so in the Smith incident at the end of M1 but this is not the end of it! its coming back to haunt him (the power of smith in the M3 clips supports this), therefore in order to achieve true balance he must strike a deal with this negative power, a revolution if you like!

The “driver” emotion for all of this can be best defined by the word “hope”, which the architect uses at the pivotal moment of one of neo’s biggest steps. Hope is not a human delusion, but the journey to the goal is clearly complex.

I don’t think that if neo prints his negative code onto Smith he (Neo) would becomes less human, because these are not emotions which have to be associated with human beings, after all we have a choice don’t we?

(Or perhaps they are real human emotions but the enlightenment is an “emotional evolution”, this would then tie in with your comment about him turning into some kind of God, I think I’m gonna leave this for now, the rabbit hole is getting a bit deep, I thought this was a simple theory! (It was before I wrote it down))

If the final part of the trilogy does imply anything like this then its pretty profound stuff!

@diemkai
I would like to thank you for your prompt reply. I have a better understanding of your concept now.

I don’t know if you agree that “good” or “evil” –regardless of their existence- are abstract concepts defined by no other known creature than Humans?

Simply put, could positive exist without negative?

diemkai wrote:

I don’t think that if neo prints his negative code onto Smith he (Neo) would becomes less human, because these are not emotions which have to be associated with human beings, after all we have a choice don’t we?

You said if he “sheds” his negative code, meaning he does not carry his negative code anymore. Only positive code. Won’t he become unbalanced then?
By the way printing or Copying does not mean deleting the source code.

I did not meant Neo evolving into a higher entity, or even god, just not being human anymore. One option is Neo becoming a god, which considering tha path of the trilogy is not a likely option.

By the way what do you mean by emotions? Do you interpret ‘good” or “evil” as human emotions?

One day, god gathers all his angels and ask them if they know who is the most praised one among them?

Since no one could answer his question, he replies:

Satan is the most praised one among you all. Without him nobody could define me…….

Please do not draw any conclusion from the above

Regards,

Atreides

(I do not consider good/evil to be human emotions)

I think Morpheus gives us an indirect clue to the interpretation of what I have called good and evil.

In the lift on the way to see the oralce in M1 Morpheus says to Neo

"try not to think of it as right or wrong".

As soon as you try and categorise any of these things in the context of a metophorical path you get into difficulties. There is no absolute in the same way that there is no pre-dermination, there is just the path you "know" and the path you ultimately "walk". We know there is a difference between these two and therefore the path we "know" will change as we "walk".

With respect to the querry about Neo being "unbalanced" if he off-loads some code - i dont think I would define him as unbalanced at this location on his path, however, in order for him to acheive this balance he has had a negative effect on his surrondings (the potential for a meglomaniac smith to cause havoc) the global balance and future of the matrix/humantiy/machines are "in limbo" throughout M2.

Can good exist without evil? not an easy question!

If you have love does that automatically yield jeolousy?
(Neo - Trinity "milestone", Neo - Persephone "milestone")

If we have truth do we need the false to understand what we mean?
(the real world and the matrix)

If we consider extreme "pairings" like this - what do we call the middle ground and what is it like/is it possible to stay there?

(I don't expect M3 to provide anwsers to this!)

diemkai;

I really like some of the ideas you have written above - I picked up on a few of these concepts (similar) myself but you have thrown the switch in another direction once or twice - its well thought out stuff.

I am drafting some ideas at the moment, it takes one of your ideas a bit further (social hope comparissions) - I will post in a couple of days - I would appreciate comments from a like minded thinker.