»"You need humans to survive..."«

The architect does not argue, but replies something like "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept".

So he agrees that the death of humans have an impact on the "life-quality" of the machines, but that they are able to survive anyway.

This implies that the architect is concerned about "life-quality", something only a human would be.

If the architect is not telling the truth:
He is not a "true" program, but a program emulating the person who created the Matrix. Humans won the war, but fucked the planet. The few remaining humans needed energy to survive and a world where man could start again. They created a Matrix which would produce enough energy to power the machines that run it, and at the same time provide a shelter for mankind.

If the architect is telling the truth:
He don't really care what Neo chooses. As machines do not care about time or pain, the machine world could probably survive for thousands of years inside a old C64 powered by a small windmill. By that time, the skies will be blue and the machines will activate again (thanks to the sunlight and solar panels).

If the architect is telling the truth (from his point of view), but is being tricked by someone who controls him:
He was just a last resort for the AI to stop Neo from choosing the left door and reaching his full potential (being in both the matrix and the real world at the same time).

emp wrote:

The architect does not argue, but replies something like "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept". So he agrees that the death of humans have an impact on the "life-quality" of the machines, but that they are able to survive anyway. This implies that the architect is concerned about "life-quality", something only a human would be.

Maybe this means, that humans are in charge of the Matrix. Exploiting other humans by connecting them to the Matrix?

But maybe there is a flaw in

emp wrote:

This implies that the architect is concerned about "life-quality"

Why does it imply a concern?

The Architect just states that the level of survival would change and they would accept it.

Quote:

Maybe this means, that humans are in charge of the Matrix. Exploiting other humans by connecting them to the Matrix?

Yes, there has to be more to the matrix than just batteries.

I guess the best plot-twist would be to end up with Neo realizing that he has been fighting a human invention all along. But I find no reason to keep people in the matrix just for fun.

There is a reason for the matrix, and the reason is not energy. The reason can be found in the answer to the question "Why must humans be enslaved instead of killed, and why kept awake/thinking instead of drugged/lobotomized?". To answer that question we must define the reason for slavery, which is to have someone else do your work.

There doesn't seem to be done alot of work in the matrix (seems like Thomas Andersons office is in a Dilbert cartoon), so there must be another reason.

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Why does it imply a concern? The Architect just states that the level of survival would change and they would accept it.

The Architect clearly does not like this option. He would prefer Neo to choose the right door, like the others did.

If he classifies survival in "levels", he does not desire a lower level, and "concern" is one of many words used to describe a feeling about something you do not want to happen.

emp wrote:

This implies that the architect is concerned about "life-quality", something only a human would be. . . . If the architect is telling the truth: He don't really care what Neo chooses. As machines do not care about time or pain, the machine world could probably survive for thousands of years inside a old C64 powered by a small windmill. By that time, the skies will be blue and the machines will activate again (thanks to the sunlight and solar panels).

I think that a discussion on AI is due. Machines with Artificial Intelligence have been stereotyped into cold, logical, heartless beings that can compute mathematical equations faster than humans. What most people do not understand is that that is what a Machine WITHOUT Artificial Intelligence (in the sense of a breakthru AI, not the practical definition of AI) is like. When we refer to "AI", we're talking about machines that are smart, that can think, just like us. Morpheus says AI is "a singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines." The keyword is 'consciousness'. These machines are sentient, they're conscious, and the are just as complex or even more so than we (humans) are. So the fact that machines can be "concerned" with anything should not be a surprise at all. After all, the B1-66-ER was concerned about his life, and that's why he killed those 2 people. What we need to figure out is, what part do the humans play in the machines' lives. It is obvious to us why we need machines, but we don't really know why the machines need us. The battery reason may or may not be true, but even if it's true, it's just a matter of time before another form of energy replaces us. And if we're only good as batteries, then at that point we would all be useless and terminated. But one thing that has been common in movies about AI is that the machines with AI are always fascinated by human beings because we created them, just like we are fascinated by some sort of higher being who we think is our creator. The philosophical questions about life, about souls, about existence, and others must also be in the machine's minds. Perhaps they want to keep us around because they believe that the answers to some of those questions can be found within humanity. Maybe. This is just another idea.

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...just like we are fascinated by some sort of higher being who we think is our creator.

Yeah, let us capture God and put him inside a perfect heaven-simulation so we can use his body for energy production.

I think humans stand for the things that the AI doesn't like (Imperfection). And I think the machines know all they want to know about humans and our history. If they had a chance, they would wipe us out.

cochen wrote:

The keyword is 'consciousness'. These machines are sentient, they're conscious, and the are just as complex or even more so than we (humans) are. So the fact that machines can be "concerned" with anything should not be a surprise at all. After all, the B1-66-ER was concerned about his life, and that's why he killed those 2 people. What we need to figure out is, what part do the humans play in the machines' lives. It is obvious to us why we need machines, but we don't really know why the machines need us. The battery reason may or may not be true, but even if it's true, it's just a matter of time before another form of energy replaces us. And if we're only good as batteries, then at that point we would all be useless and terminated. But one thing that has been common in movies about AI is that the machines with AI are always fascinated by human beings because we created them, just like we are fascinated by some sort of higher being who we think is our creator. The philosophical questions about life, about souls, about existence, and others must also be in the machine's minds. Perhaps they want to keep us around because they believe that the answers to some of those questions can be found within humanity. Maybe. This is just another idea.

I like very much your post. We tend to have a pre-concept that we are superior in
"feeling", when feel might be just a consequence of having consciousness.
Also I never bought the battery reason. Cleaning the sky would be much easier.
Of course the powerplant uses us as we see in M1. Maybe to extract not energy
but our "software".

Maybe the whole matrix is some sort of genetic algorith, and they are looking for
a solution (the one? ) to answer some existence questions.

For me it is a passive point : the battery reason is crap. M3 probably with answer this question more than any other question.

What if the matrix was a prison for convicts? Where convicts would have their memory wiped clean and live their life sentences in the Matrix, where they couldn't harm other people outside of the matrix. This theory implies that the MiM theory is true. While "doing time," convicts would provide energy for the law obiding human race while would-be programers could test their programing skills in the matrix before applying to a job position. Then, these programers would be hired by Microsoft, only to be fired after Windows 3K was released. heheheheheheheh.