»THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ZION«

diemkai's ideas abt the source being the 'energy that underlies all things' is quite nice, but they're wrong. now there are many ways to refute this. i can simply use instances from the movie - neo saw ONLY the machines and bane in code, he could affect/control only the machines, etc. there also something u seem to have forgotten - neo says very clearly, very plainly, in reloaded that the source is the machine mainframe.

but the reason diemkai came to the conclusion is because the matrix movies are obviously abt some 'deeper' philosophical meaning. but simply represent the energy of the universe as orange/gold code? thats not the way the brothers have followed till now. the film is all abt ALLEGORY, not direct presentation of ideas. they could have represented Jesus by dressing up neo in red and white robes and giving him 12 followers. but did they? NO. they used allegory, as for every 'deeper' concept in the movie. if they wanted to represent energy, they would have used allegory, not GOLDEN CODE

ralph_angelus wrote:

the film is all abt ALLEGORY, not direct presentation of ideas. they could have represented Jesus by dressing up neo in red and white robes and giving him 12 followers. but did they? NO. they used allegory, as for every 'deeper' concept in the movie. if they wanted to represent energy, they would have used allegory, not GOLDEN CODE

It may not have been intentional for the gold code to MEAN energy - this is only my way of explaining what it is - what is for sure is that they are saying "here is some green code , here is the MATRIX, here is some gold code, here is the REAL world" - it makes you think - but what its not saying is the gold code is just the next level of matrix code - its something else - thats why it doesnt look like the green code - (I think we would all agree that if the gold code was just falling gold characters like the matrix code that would be very corny and would mean something different.

Why can't you interpret the gold code as a form of allegory? I think it is.

Many people keep saying that the gold code is just the machine mainframe - i can't agree with this and make the films work in my head - the gold code must be everyewhere - this bit is conceptually tricky - but its all there - watch the movies again - from just the first scene you will see the gold code is "EVERYWHERE" - the trick to realise why Neo has to go to the machine city is because although the gold code is everywhere it is "more dense" in particular places of activity and "MOST dense" at the machine city. (analagous again to the green code - the cities in the matrix represent more dense code activity - one of the animatrix's deals with this issue very precisely - the one where kids are playing on the outskirts of the matrix)

The film clearly communicates on many levels and uses non-direct presentation of ideas all the time - many many different ideas - thats why when you analyse detail too much you can often find conflict - you can take the ideas whcih mean most to you and focus on them - then find others - I accept there are many different ways of interpreting the movies.

IMO, Zion is real. In the book of revelations (in the Bible) Jesus comes on Mount Zion I believe. The Zion in the movie is... a mountain, or cave. Did you notice that everyone took off there shoes before going into the cave area of Zion? That is because it is holy. And real.

If Zion is a simulation why would the machines need to come destroy it? Don't they WANT people jacked-in? And how could the machines enter the simulation to destroy it? Wouldn't that make the Machine City part of the Zion Matrix?

The Architect said "This is the sixth time we have destroyed Zion, we have become very efficient at it."(not a dirct quote, sorry).

Also, I remember lots of blood during the battle in Zion. Neo bleeds in the Matrix, yes, but... it's just a thought.

And what about the people born in Zion? If Zion was fake what would that make them? Programs?

And the "Gold Code". It really doesn't look like code at all, it looks to me like golden smoke. It also trails off, behaving not like the green code of the Matrix.

We know Neo does not posses the gold stuff. But, Neo, while blind, seems to look directly at Trinity many times, while she is piloting, and while she is dying. I'm just pointing this out, not trying to prove anything.

So the gold stuff to me is still a mystery. Zion is not.

The Source. Does it's name deserve capitalization?

My geuss is that the source is simply the body. Neo's body. Is his body special? He stopped sentinals, he can see programs in the real world...

If the Source is more, if the Source is spelled with a big S, then what is it? And how does Neo get his power from it in both worlds?

Maybe it is a flaw. Maybe the Wachowskis are geniusess... in marketing.

diemkai wrote:

Many people keep saying that the gold code is just the machine mainframe - i can't agree with this and make the films work in my head - the gold code must be everyewhere - this bit is conceptually tricky - but its all there - watch the movies again - from just the first scene you will see the gold code is "EVERYWHERE" - the trick to realise why Neo has to go to the machine city is because although the gold code is everywhere it is "more dense" in particular places of activity and "MOST dense" at the machine city. (analagous again to the green code - the cities in the matrix represent more dense code activity - one of the animatrix's deals with this issue very precisely - the one where kids are playing on the outskirts of the matrix).

If the gold "code" is everywhere as you say (more dense in some places than in others), wouldn't Neo have had some "feeling" of it's presence in the main part of the city (Zion)? ...In the tunnels? ...In the ship? ...In Trinity? He did not.

He only had the "feeling" when in the presence of the Sentinels at the end of Reloaded and when he and Trin were flying over The Fields in Revolutions. These things are attached the The Machine City/01.

This says, to me anyway, that gold code/aura/energy is NOT everywhere. It ONLY exists in The Machine City/01 and in anything that is attached to The Machine City/01.

This is why I feel that what The Brothers are showing us at the beginning of revolutions is the machine-code of the part of The System that is running The Matrix.

On the inside of The System, the gold is code. On the outside of The System, the gold is the aura or energy given off by The System of which Neo can "see".


What is the Matrix

What is the Matrix wrote:

This is why I feel that what The Brothers are showing us at the beginning of revolutions is the machine-code of the part of The System that is running The Matrix. On the inside of The System, the gold is code. On the outside of The System, the gold is the aura or energy given off by The System of which Neo can "see". What is the Matrix

Can somone explain to me what is meant by this? Lots of people question my gold code is everywhere theory but I never understand the alternative.

diemkai wrote:

There is no such thing as Zion however it is NOT a matrix in a matrix. At the start of M3 an image zooms into the green code and keeps going until it goes deeper and into the gold code. This is the source. The source is all that really exists. Its energy it holds the fundemental rules for space/time.... Sitting on top of this source "fabric" is the real world. But unfortunately the real world does not exist in the REAL way that the souce exists. That does not mean it is a Matrix! It just means the real world is our perception of the source code - we have choices / emotions....love / hatred / fear / etc - but these are just distortions of the fabric to show "us" what "IT" is. The matrix has been written by a form of intelligence from the "REAL WORLD" (AI). The green code sits directly on top of the gold code - so behaves pretty similar (as we know anyway) to the REAL world. The source is everywhere and is everything. So - at the level of the gold the boundaries between a conciosness and an active computer program do not really exist! Thats why everybody is getting confussed because all the theories like MwM / neo is a programme / etc are irrelevant.

nice try...but i think you are searching in vain for things that arent really contained within the matrix at all

its a very existentialist view and holds no relevance and contains no links to the matrix saga whatsoever

but again...nice try

you go on the presumtion that the gold is code when it is simply how neo percieves the machine city due to his connection with the source

it is probably the exact same way the the machines percieve each other

the only example of gold code that we see in the whole trilogy is the way neo sees seraph in the tea house within the matrix and that is pure symbolism of the seraphim angels

it has no direct relevance to plot

Quote:

nice try...but i think you are searching in vain for things that arent really contained within the matrix at all its a very existentialist view and holds no relevance and contains no links to the matrix saga whatsoever but again...nice try

I know what you are saying, there is perhaps no direct confirmation but I geniunly beleive that the best thing about the movies is not just what we see on screens - they give a platform to think about these sorts of issues.

I think you are wrong to suggest that these opinions hold no relevance and have no links to the matrix saga. OK, maybe the detail is not expicit in the films but the questions are there, and for me thats what the movies are about, the questions have been around for thousands of years and I think the films inspire that kind of mental investigation.

Maybe its off topic and should go in the philosophy section but this thread did start out by trying to explain my theory to those who have been argueing about if the MwM theory is correct or not. In my opinion the gold code is critical to this debate and every time I try and explain why people just tell me that the gold is the machine code - i listen and think it through but I am just not happy with that explaination - I never have been.

Quote:

it is probably the exact same way the the machines percieve each other

I don't think so - the machines would probably use sensory equipment which is based on our senses - maybe some additions/enhancement - ie. sonar, infa -red, etc.

I don't think the machines recognise the gold code - why would they?

Quote:

the only example of gold code that we see in the whole trilogy is the way neo sees seraph in the tea house within the matrix and that is pure symbolism of the seraphim angels it has no direct relevance to plot

I remember other occasions: (in fact I don't think you know what I mean by gold code)

start of M3 - insider the punch in / punch out clock
During the bane / neo fight
In the oracles kitchen with smith
At the end of M3 when they fly over the fields and when they crash
At the Dues Ex machina

Its all relevant to me.

diemkai wrote:

What is the Matrix wrote: This is why I feel that what The Brothers are showing us at the beginning of revolutions is the machine-code of the part of The System that is running The Matrix. On the inside of The System, the gold is code. On the outside of The System, the gold is the aura or energy given off by The System of which Neo can "see". What is the Matrix Can somone explain to me what is meant by this? Lots of people question my gold code is everywhere theory but I never understand the alternative.

Well, since I was the one who wrote that, I suppose I should explain it.

On the inside of The System, the gold is code.

What I was saying here is that a the very beginning of Revolutions, what I feel that we are being shown is the machine-code of the part of The System which runs The Matrix. I say this because the gold code becomes green as the view expands out. What happened is that WE (the audience) were being carried over the threshold from the Machine World (represented by gold code) into The Matrix (represented by green code).

On the outside of The System, the gold is the aura or energy given off by The System of which Neo can "see".

What I was seeing here is that what Neo is "seeing" at the end of Revolutions isn't code because he is not inside The System/01. He is on the outside. Therefore, what he would be "seeing" is the energy being given off by The System/01, not code. Hence, on the inside of The System, the gold is code. On the outside of The System, the gold is energy.

I hope that is enough for you to understand what I meant by those statements. If not, then maybe someone else who understands can explain it better.

WitM[/b]

diemkai wrote:

What we call real in the real world doesnt really mean real - we still have a code - we can even "see" the code - we learn about it in physics - we just dont call it "the code".

this could be a reason why the orange/gold code doesn´t look like code but like flames or rays (note that rays in confront to code and numbers is not discreect (to say you got numbers 1,2,3,4... (called discreet) but rays are like 0 ... 0.01 .... 0.011 ... 0.0111 ... 0.02 .. (not discreet, like our world))). this would mean that at the beginning of revolutions they show us greencode of the matrix and the underlying undiscreet, natural, goldcode. but it would also mean that seraf and smith are humans, and neo and trinity not. or that 01 is actully real, but zion not.
ok, un-proved myself

i don´t get why seraf is shown golden and the oracle, persephone, mero etc. not...

I think the reason it looks like fractals, flames etc and NOT like code is because it is analogous to the underlying structure on a Quantum scale - its not based on binary logic like (ones and zeros) it is much more complex than this.

None seems to notice that in beginning of Revolutions, we go deep in the code but just go "up" of one level and then we are into a green code !

What does it mean ? Th code was yellow and, when we come back it is green. Well, it is simply the main characteristic of fractals : the way they look depends on the level of wich you observe it.

The code is green for people being in the matrix but the green code is made of a simplier code that is basically the yellow one. The more the code is near the source, the more it is will look yellow to the "further-from-the-source programs" programs.

Being yellow or green is just a relative thing, question of point of view(er)