»Clues from the Animatrix...«

I have finally seen "The final flight of the Osiris" and got some new ideas...

When they (the Osiris) get to the surface, in the background it seems like smoke rising from some of the machine made "towers".

And even further back the whole horizon is very bright.

So the bright light in the background indicate that only a small part of the planet is covered with black skies. Probably just the area around 01.

Zion is situated at the foot of the matrix, and the matrix is close to 01.

Nobody from Zion has been anywhere else than below ground or at the surface near 01. Ergo... Never seen the skies anywhere else.

The machines are producing the black smoke that covers the sky.

Conclusion:

After the war, humans accepted that fixing the planet would take hundreds of years, so they made a matrix to live in while the machines fixed the planet.

The machines got to use the humans as energy sources as reward for maintaining the matrix.

The machines were given 2 directives:

To protect the human race by keeping them safe in the matrix.
To release the human race when the skies where blue again.

So the machines keep the skies black so that they won't have to release the human race and thereby getting in trouble again.

Well?

The 2nd renaissance: Archive of Zion exist and show that machines and humans have come to peace.

You are right. I have not noticed before, but the machine at the UN says something like "Your flesh is a relic, I am your vessel". And something about the machines demanding that the old world must be destroyed... And <BOOM> it does...

The question is what is meant to be historically correct and what is just symbolism...

Interesting... Maybe the machines are there to protect the humans. This would answer the "why use humans when you can use cows" questions.

Some may know that the sun is expanding, and in 5-6 billion years will consume the earth, and shrink to a black hole. Maybe these films are in reality played beyond that time. Maybe humans are in hibernation (dream) until the machines find another planet to unload them.

Furthermore, what makes you think that the "real" world is on earth. Maybe its some other planet that the machines are adjusting (adding oxygene, etc.) for humans, and thats why it seems so rough. So in a sence, humans power the machines to build worlds for humans.

I doubt this will be the case though, its seems too sci-fi-ish. I read the apparent plot that may consider false for M3, but I think it has some pretty good ideas.

What is the relation between love and One. "Being in One is just like being in love" - Oracle in M1. So being in love - loving someone, and being the One - for someone, is being loved by that someone. Maybe this holds the key.

There are many eventual exits out of this Matrix saga.

For me, there is one puzzle: Sun stimulates trees, trees make oxygene, so no sun, no oxygene. At the end of M2, they get out of the Neb, yet they have no trouble breathing???

RISCII wrote:

Sun stimulates trees, trees make oxygene

Yep, for themselves. The ocean makes oxygene for humans.

But your question remains. I would suggest that machines at the engineering leven (Neo+Councillor Hamann) are responsible for making O2.

I know about the engineering level, lets assume human batteries stimulate trees, or whatever (dont know that area too much), and zion has oxygene. But still, when they get out of the neb, there is still oxygene. Lets assume the machines produce oxygene (for unknown purpose), which from m1 we see when neo is unplugged from the matrix the first time, he can breathe. But why would they need oxygene machines in zion then. And why would the machines want oxygene on the planet. Fair enough, lets assume they produce it for humans in those egg-looking cages, why outside?

RISCII wrote:

"Some may know that the sun is expanding, and in 5-6 billion years will consume the earth, and shrink to a black hole."

I only have one nit-picky comment to make...

The sun is far too small to become a black hole. It would have to be about 10x its mass to have enough gravity to collapse on itself.

Also, earth is doomed way before that. The seas will boil and it will become too hot for life to exist on earth well before the sun actually consumes earth (duh). But I think that will happen (if I can remember) in less than 2 billion years.

Dont be picky I just gave an idea. The sun will expand, yes the oceans will boil, the sun will consume earth and some other planets, and once it becomes a red giant, then it will shrink to a black hole. If by that time we dont find another sun to live on, thats it. Maybe, "It ends tonight!"
"ha ha ha ha" - Smith...

RISCII wrote:

thats it. Maybe, "It ends tonight!" "ha ha ha ha" - Smith...

Night? The darkness spreading? Witha red giant sun knocking at your door?

RISCII wrote:

"and once it becomes a red giant, then it will shrink to a black hole."

No! No, it won't!

I would like to add my two testicles to this thread.

In order for the sun to transform into a black hole, the event depends on the quantity of matter consumed by the sun in it's period of expansion. With it's expansion it will envelope Mercury and Venus as it grows. As these planets are destroyed, this may effect the orbit of the remaining planest, such as the Earth and Mars. The maximum expansion of the Sun is thought to enter our own orbit, so in otherwords, the Earth would be swallowed up just like the inner planets. This would increment the mass of the Sun substantially, not to mention that with the added gravity and stronger solar wind, the asteroid belt and Mars might change their orbits making them spiral into the Sun.

So like i said, the expansion of the sun might provoke many of the planets to spiral inward. If for example Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune would crash into the Sun, this would provide alot of light elements that would "stoke the fire" and let the sun expand even more. Naturally it won't expand more than Mar's orbit to do this. With the sun being able to burn for quite a bit more, the result might be a supernova that in turn might create one of two things, a quasar, or a black hole.

Going along with the Matrix plot. It might just be that the goal of the machines is to help the humans after all. Long term flights outside our solar sistem might take hundreds of years to reach the nearest stars. This would cause us humans to make "Generation Ships" where humans would live and at the end of the journey colonize any found planets. A matrix might be a prototype of a life support system for the voyage. Other than that as we see Smith over writing himself to a person, we can say that agents and programs in the Matrix tend to emulate the functioning of a human mind, and thus making them "compatible" with us. So in the end the machines might see that joining our minds to a machine body might be a next step to human evolution.

One reason why I believe this is because when the 01 ambassadors went to the UN, they wanted peace between humans and robots, which was at pretty much the last minutes before the war. It might be possibile that "Mother" and "Father" are the principal AI constructs that controlled 01, and might have been some of the first robots to become "Conscious" about their existance. We might even find out that these AI's might even be built around Asimov's 4 principals of robotics.

admford wrote:

In order for the sun to transform into a black hole, the event depends on the quantity of matter consumed by the sun in it's period of expansion... With the sun being able to burn for quite a bit more, the result might be a supernova that in turn might create one of two things, a quasar, or a black hole.

Let me make this as clear as I possibly can. The sun needs to have more than 10x its current mass to have enough mass to become a black hole. The sun contains more than 99.8% of our solar system's mass. That means it would have to consume more than 5000x the mass of all of the planets in our solar system combined to become a black hole. Unless it expands so much that it consumes hundreds of not thousands other solar systems, it will not become a black hole. Which means it just won't happen. Ever.

Now that that's out of the way...

I agree that it seems like a good possibility that the machines are helping the humans, at least in a way. I like the theory that because the humans scorched the sky, they made a truce with the machines (remember the animatrix? They did come to 'an agreement'...) that allowed them to be in hybernation until the sky is cleaned. I agree with you that the principle reason behind this is the machines proposing peace. But, as we know the Zion archives are suspect anyway, and suspiciously slanted towards the machines.

Also, with that scenario it doesn't make sense why they would have the humans believe (or that they would believe themselves) that their sole purpose is to provide energy for the machines. If their intentions are innocent or even helpful, then why would the humans of Zion be convinced that the machines are against the humans? And why would the machines allow this false perception to spread? Anyway, I still like the theory

Just some thoughts...

My best guess would be because the Matrix in the begining would've been too perfect, just like it was said in the first movie. But, it didn't cause the death of those humans, a "Perfect" world would have forced humans to remain in the Matrix, just like an addiction. This group of humans would not be able to survive in the real world after being disconnected.

As for Zion and an imperfect world created in the Matrix, then that would create groups of people that would want to be disconnected from the Matrix. Life in Zion would have prepared humans to be released into the "Real world" where conditions are possibly even more difficult. It would be a two step system that would gradually release people into the real world to repopulate it. 250,000 people would be more than enough to start living in small cities and gradually incrementing the world population. Continuose releases of people would be able to slowly repopulate the Earth.

The destruction of Zion might be the release of people into the real world. A single release of 250,000 people is a gamble. In a world that is barely hospitable, survival would be the main problem, and with a slow reproduction rate, the human population will die (which i think it was the first Matrix's objective in releasing a single large population into the real world).

Quote:

Also, with that scenario it doesn't make sense why they would have the humans believe (or that they would believe themselves) that their sole purpose is to provide energy for the machines. If their intentions are innocent or even helpful, then why would the humans of Zion be convinced that the machines are against the humans? And why would the machines allow this false perception to spread?

The human race is serving as energy for the machines because that was part of the agreement we see being barcode-signed in a old 3D-Studio rendering in the Animatrix (2nd. Ren.).

The machines were not allowed to use any other energy source, as this would break their dependence of humans, and that would just leave us in a matrix without maintenance (reloads).

But the last thing the machines want is the human race back in business, so they keep the sky scorched.

Huh? Where do the machines get their energy from?? A body surely isn't enough.

That's why the idea is flawed.

Huh? What idea?

The idea that machines use human bodies as energy source. I think this is pretty farfetched.

in the 2nd Renaissance, the machines are representative of god's chosen people, and all of the book of revelations stuff in them. they are repressed, they get their own country in the middle east, their economy is greater than all the world's and all the world wants them destroyed. the sun is blotted out of the sky, the giant war, all the tribulation stuff.
the meek (subservient machines) inherit the earth. then came the slavery of man

Quote:

then came the slavery of man

It's not slavery. Just control.

In the Second reinassance(spelling?), at the end of the episode, you can see a kid playing in the snow under the dark scourched(spelling?) sky above, playing besides the destroyed buildings that rest from the war between man and machines...it is clear that it is the "real world"...after that the kid is called from his parents from the house, and when she/he arrives, they turn to be AGENTS, after that we see that the kid is in fact inside of a POD of liquid, in the matrix. This clearly shows that the "real world" is in fact another matrix, another prison for the mind.
PiukNeo.

Anonymous wrote:

In the Second reinassance(spelling?), at the end of the episode, you can see a kid playing in the snow under the dark scourched(spelling?) sky above, playing besides the destroyed buildings that rest from the war between man and machines...it is clear that it is the "real world"...after that the kid is called from his parents from the house, and when she/he arrives, they turn to be AGENTS, after that we see that the kid is in fact inside of a POD of liquid, in the matrix. This clearly shows that the "real world" is in fact another matrix, another prison for the mind. PiukNeo.

It's just symbolic. Why would agents show up in the doorway instead of the kids parents?

I had the thought a while ago that humans and machines had made some kind of a deal. That something had gone terribly wrong, and the only way for the human race to survive was with the help of the machines(as they always have). Perhaps the machines are trying to put things right with the planet at the same time trying to learn as much as they can about the human race (emotions, what makes us what we are etc.)
Or perhaps the machines feel that they are the dominant race on the planet now (just as we have our own theories of our self importance) and intend on keeping the human race 'fast asleep'. There are many interesting theories out there.....

There has to be a greater underlying reason behind the human race being kept in pods than just energy or even amusement for the machines. The architect said himself that the machines could survive (albeit in less comfort) without the human race so the real reason behind why humans are kept alive by the machines must be because that is their purpose to do so. Either that or the machines have reached as far as they can in terms of their evolution and the only step left for them to take is to master emotion (hence the interest in the anomaly that most people here agree is love).

I like those theories that are coming out concerning the machines as 'caretakers' for the human race in some form or another. They put a nice new spin on things that haven't been considered before. Who knows, maybe with each reloading the machines lost some focus of what their true purpose was and are now kinda making it up as they go along.

One final thing though. It's cool that everyone takes such a great interest in this subject, the movies are damn cool and it's neat the've sparked such debates, but like it's been said before, everyone should stop reading so much into everything that is portrayed on the screen. It seems every last second of film has been over-analysed, from how many Smith's does Neo fight to the exact chronological order of events in the animatrix. You guys have gotta chill out a bit and realise that most of it (especially in the Animatrix) is just symbolism. And don't worry to much about the fine details like the time on Neo's watch when he first kicked Smiths ass or what's writen on that mini-disc in Neo's false book (disk_play, but not that it matters at all).
Maybe then your theories will be more concise. Don't think I don't like them though, I love 'em, keep them coming!