»THE FLAWS period please add to and answer my Q's«

Some of these Q's might have been answered but these are just off the top of my head.

How did neo stop the sentinels in the real world?
How did mr smith poses that guy in the real world?
Did neo die?
What of the 7 other matrix's?
Who was the architect?
Why was the orical a different apperence?
How did neo get into a train station that he could not get out of?
What happened to the little indian girl when the asian guy was assimilated?
Why is the little indian girl the last exial?
How did mr smith know what he was going to say at the end of the fight scene?
If neo's goal in the end fight was to be assimilated, why the long fight?
If the orical wants to un balance the matrix, why is she content in the end when it is back to being stable?
If the orical is just a program, when she was assimilated by mr smith wouldn't she be lost forever and not come back when the matrix is back to normal in the end?
Also, since she kept wanting to stir things up in the matrix, why would she be brought back and talking to the architect in the end?

At the end the architect said whomever wanted out of the matrix would be freed. I can think of about five things wrong with that off hand but let's just call it another flaw.


In the first movie there goal was to free people from the matrix. At the end of the third movie, not only did they not achieve their goal, they lost thousands of people and had half of zion destroyed.

How could he be the one if he's dead?
The orical told morphious he would find the one who would free everybody.
She told neo he was the one.
The orical tells you the options, if you chose those options she can tell you the outcome.
He dies without freeing everybody.
He is not the one.

The film makers out triked themselves, and tried to confuse the audience into thinking they had seen a good movie. I see they have fooled some of you.

And finally whats with the little indain girl being able to create a sunset at the end of the movie? (It took me the secound try to catch this) I think their trying for number 4.

jockeyshiftit wrote:

Some of these Q's might have been answered but these are just off the top of my head. How did neo stop the sentinels in the real world? How did mr smith poses that guy in the real world? Did neo die? What of the 7 other matrix's? Who was the architect? Why was the orical a different apperence? How did neo get into a train station that he could not get out of? What happened to the little indian girl when the asian guy was assimilated? Why is the little indian girl the last exial? How did mr smith know what he was going to say at the end of the fight scene? If neo's goal in the end fight was to be assimilated, why the long fight? If the orical wants to un balance the matrix, why is she content in the end when it is back to being stable? If the orical is just a program, when she was assimilated by mr smith wouldn't she be lost forever and not come back when the matrix is back to normal in the end? Also, since she kept wanting to stir things up in the matrix, why would she be brought back and talking to the architect in the end? At the end the architect said whomever wanted out of the matrix would be freed. I can think of about five things wrong with that off hand but let's just call it another flaw. In the first movie there goal was to free people from the matrix. At the end of the third movie, not only did they not achieve their goal, they lost thousands of people and had half of zion destroyed. How could he be the one if he's dead? The orical told morphious he would find the one who would free everybody. She told neo he was the one. The orical tells you the options, if you chose those options she can tell you the outcome. He dies without freeing everybody. He is not the one. The film makers out triked themselves, and tried to confuse the audience into thinking they had seen a good movie. I see they have fooled some of you. And finally whats with the little indain girl being able to create a sunset at the end of the movie? (It took me the secound try to catch this) I think their trying for number 4.

1. Neo is connected to the matrix "without jacking in" and being connected to the "source" allows him to shut down the machines and be connected with them electronically. -because of the machine plugs in his body and such- *this is what the oracle meant* but isnt very clear in the explaination.
-this is difficult to explain unless you understand computers, and the wachowski brothers are computer nerds.-


2.Smith possessed that guy in the real world, because he took over his conciousness.- while bane was plugged in he was taken over by the Smith program.

3. Did neo die? -this is a question that was left UNANSWERED. but most things point to that he did. ONLY a few things point to that he is still alive.
But it isnt clear.

4. The other matrix's (im not sure there was 7) were just matrixes that other neos inhabited and worked out exactly the way the trilogy has dipicted in the movies.

5. the architect?- The program (or conciousness of the machine god) that was responsible for the creation of the matrix.

6. the oracle was a different apperance because the actress who played the origonal one DIED.- they tried to explain it in the films as she was jumping from body to body "shell" so that she could escape the people that were chasing her (i.e. the merovingian)

7. Neos body went into the train station after he suffered the shock of being connected with the source (the oracle said he wasnt ready for the conncetion) his mind went between the matrix and the source. Why it was there and no where else?- i dont know, i guess it had to go somewhere.
why he couldnt get out?- he should have been able to, and this idea was stupid.


8. The little girl (she was called the last exile because she was the last program to be exiled-*im guessing*) was assimilated with the asian guy as you put it, you get this sence when smith says "cookies need love like everything does."
This makes it pretty clear when Smith snikers after he makes this comment.

9. Mr. Smith knows what to say because he assimilates the oracle.

10. the long fight between smith and Neo was because Neo had 2 options, to either defeat smith physically, and having himself be assimilated was a last resort. (it only came to mind when the oracle told him "everything that has a beggining has an end Neo.) it was this statment that gave him the idea to sacrifice himself.

11. The oracle is smiling at the end because the matrix is still unbalanced because people still have choice. "choice" is the unbalancer. Choice still exsits so therefore it still remains unbalanced. -and in some small way she won over the architect.

12. there are software programs out there that do a process that some people call "debugging" which cleans out things like viruses that are connected to software. (however most viruses corrupt software and half to be deleted) I guess Agent smith is a weak virus that doesnt corrupt programs.- either that or the machine god's anti-virus program that it put into the matrix is just to awesome for words.

13. the oracle is brought back so that she can continue the cycle and wait for the next NEO

14. the little indian girl is a software programmer, thus she can manipulate the program of the matirx *it is her purpose given to her by the merovingian*

15. No one Knows whether NEO is dead or hes not.
i like the cypher reference though "how can he be the one if hes dead?"

this is true. Also. its a good point that says if he is dead and all the people in the matrix arent free.

however, it never said EVERYONE.

and in a way they people are Free to choose. Choose to live the matrix or in the real world.

the prophecy said this : the oracle prophecied his return and envisioned that this coming would hail the destruction of the matrix, and end to the war and freedom for our people. That is why there are those of us that have spent our entire lives searching the matrix, looking for him- this is what Morpheus said.

The oracle never said anything close to this in the matrix trilogy. it was always 2nd hand.
- but you notice it says that it would hail the destruction of the matrix.-

hail the destruction of the matrix?-
this never happend. and will NEVER happen.- this is a problem. NOT whether they are free or not.

because like i said, in a way they ARE free.
-which many people argue that this is the case-

I KNOW it sound like im defending the movie, but i like to show that i know what the hell is going on and i STILL think the movie was a huge DISSAPOINTING peace of crap.

Buddy, I think you misunderstood. I can speculate about the movie too.
If you believe what you typed, than the movie should have been quite entertaining for you. However I doubt you were sitting in the movie theater coming up with these conclusions. The fact is that these flaws were not addressed in the movie where it counts. If the flaws were addressed in the movie, instead of some message board, I still think it would have been a stinker due to the excess of cgi and poor choice of endings.

jockeyshiftit wrote:

Buddy, I think you misunderstood. I can speculate about the movie too. If you believe what you typed, than the movie should have been quite entertaining for you. However I doubt you were sitting in the movie theater coming up with these conclusions. The fact is that these flaws were not addressed in the movie where it counts. If the flaws were addressed in the movie, instead of some message board, I still think it would have been a stinker due to the excess of cgi and poor choice of endings.

Your right about one thing. ALOT of these answers are speculations.

However, i knew how the movie was going to end MONTHS before the film came out.

- i know this is probably hard to belive and it comes easy to say now that the movie is already over- But there are alot of people where i live that i told (the didnt think it would end the way i said) and when it ended the way i said it did said "you were right."

However MOST of the things that i said i figured out during, Before, and right after the movies ending.
-Most of it was due to researching the W-brothers after the 2nd film.- and doing some research in philosophy during the first 2 films ( i research philosophy as a hobby of mine)

I didnt need this stupid forum to figure out those things.

Granted, i agree with you that all of these things arent CLEAR but most of them can be GATHERED from what the W-brothers presented.

Most people on this site argue that (oh i like it that they left it SOO OPEN)

i like not knowing what the hell is going on.

for me this sounds stupid. and people should just walk out of every movie before it ends so they can like EVERY movie.

the movie WASNT entertaining for me because even though i understood the moive, i understood that it sucks.

I think the worst part for me was accepting that my hero (NEO) who appeared so awesome in the first 2 now gets his butt kicked by a bum, goes blind, and loses his girlfriend to the grim reaper.

and to top it all off? you dont know whether or not hes dead?

-this was probably the biggest reason why i hated the 3rd film.-

Its like understanding that there are flaws.

I UNDERSTAND that there is flaws, and the main problem with the movie is that it CONTRADICTS itself in its positions about philosophy.

It makes for a stupid movie when there are so many "holes" in a film.


ok- Now if you want to say that the movie should have made it Clear so that EVERYONE could understand it just as the movie was presented.

to say that the movie should have been easier to understand?

Then i agree.

But the reason why people make films that you have to "dissect" is so that people can feel superior to others when they say "oh you just dont UNDERSTAND it."

I come back with :

"yes i do. I UNDERSTAND that it is a HUGE piece of crap."

there have been other movies like this (none i can think of now. but im sure there is) that do this kind of thing.

but i dont agree with it and i think that if i was making a movie, why the hell wouldnt i make it so that EVERYONE understood its greatness the first time they saw the film.

It just makes more sence this way, and the w-brothers want to make themselves look "superior" to everyone else.

and in some ways they succeeded because SOME fans love the last film.

But MOST dont.

and to that i say; HA HA.

In genral, people are ignorant. If they liked it, good for them. But this aspect ties into religion and government as well. Ignorance is bliss. If they want to stay in there own little "Matrix" type world, thinking that it was a flawless movie made to be vauge, thats their prerogative. The movie was not hard to understand. They tried to make it ambigious so that it would feel like it was complex, but it ended up backfiring. It makes me go back and look at the secound movie and think; maby they wern't trying to ask "the big questions." Maby they were just sitting around a big table saying "hay, I know, lets just throught in alot of complex shit n try n fool the people into thinking its a complex movie." I know I had to listen to the architect scene at the end of movie 2 a few times to relise he was just shooting bs. I think they just out triked themselves in the secound one and could not fallow through. I know if I had a few minutes and was getting paid millions, I could figure out a better ending.

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It makes me go back and look at the secound movie and think; maby they wern't trying to ask "the big questions." Maby they were just sitting around a big table saying "hay, I know, lets just throught in alot of complex shit n try n fool the people into thinking its a complex movie." I know I had to listen to the architect scene at the end of movie 2 a few times to relise he was just shooting bs.

Man, damnit i WANT to agree with you on this since the 3rd movie was so damn bad. but its not the TRUTH.

Most of the W-brothers ideas were brought about by their philosophy teacher. It was the combination of his ideas and their own that made the film.

after they came up with the idea, they confronted a comic artist to make a thumbnail layout and proposed it to the film makers.

the film makers addressed the film and its ideas (and usually the flaws) but in the movie industry MOST of them have the same beliefs as the w-brothers, so making an ending that was "grey" was not hard to promote.

I think that if they had the teacher that the spoke of (i forget his name) then im gonna tend to believe it wasnt inteded to be hogwash.

what MIGHT be the case however, is that maybe they got the imput from their teacher and came up with their own conclusions.
Because philosophy is all about speculation and most of it doesnt come up with REAl answers.

-the quesitons that they proposed in all 3 movies have REAL answers, the w-brothers failed to look hard enough, or didnt want to put the truth in the film, or they were just lazy.

Some of my friends who have studied the w-brothers have came up with the possibility that maybe they HAD no answers to their questions that they proposed and this is why it ended the way it did.

Most people believe that NOTHING is black and white. EVERYTHING is gray.

The w-brothers believe this.

it was this these kinds of beliefs that made the 3rd film so stupid.

Yah, I had a gray shirt. I bleached it and made it white, and I did not like that so I dyed it black. Now it's back to gray for some reason.

I was being sarcastic about the "sitting around the table thing."

Tell me what you know about the ?...brothers.

I would tell you what i know about the w-brothers, but it would bring up to much disscussion and long debates about those subjects that they believe in and im NOT about to go into those long debates


for instance, just look how many things popped up from just their stupid movies.

-but, if you look... you will find.
(besides, i dont know the websites off hand cause it was months ago when i found them searching around for days)

goto bookstores, -there is even a book called "matrix philosophy"

that might open your eyes to some things.

then look at some sites - they stopped doing interviews when matrix came out, but not when they did a movie called "bounce"

Not only that there is a couple of things out there that will open your eyes to what they are all about.

look, and ye shall find.

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Tell me what you know about the ?...brothers.

They believe in Causality and Nihilism. They also believe that there is no right or wrong, hence the ending was vague.

Here are some URL's for some background on them:

Oh and here is one more with this important quote:

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calla: There are quite a few hidden messages in the movie that I notice the more I watch it. Can you tell me about how many there are? WachowskiBros: There are more than you'll ever know.

From:

Raksasha69 wrote:

ALOT of these answers are speculations. i understood that it sucks. that it is a HUGE piece of crap."

2 things to say

1:i thought you only worked in fact in order to prove your points and did not speculate

2:are "sucks" and "huge piece of crap" dictionary definitions

hahaha

sorry...i couldnt resist

the anomaly wrote:

Raksasha69 wrote: ALOT of these answers are speculations. i understood that it sucks. that it is a HUGE piece of crap." 2 things to say 1:i thought you only worked in fact in order to prove your points and did not speculate 2:are "sucks" and "huge piece of crap" dictionary definitions hahaha sorry...i couldnt resist

I SPECULATE all the time.
heres me doing JUST THAT:

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Your right about one thing. ALOT of these answers are speculations.

that was me admitting that i was speculating.

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3. Did neo die? -this is a question that was left UNANSWERED. but most things point to that he did. ONLY a few things point to that he is still alive. But it isnt clear.

heres ANOTHER speculation. its NOT CLEAR and showing BOTH sides in this stament qualifies it as a speculation.
guess, conjecture, supposition, surmise, surmisal, speculation, hypothesis -- (a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence)
2. speculation, conjecture -- (a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence); "speculations about the outcome of the election"; "he dismissed it as mere conjecture")

see that? and see how i said it was NOT CLEAR?
that was speculation. because i said that while the MAJOIRITY of the evidence points to his death, it still isnt CLEAR.


very good. but sucks and huge peice of crap is the conclusion i came up with after the end of my post.

it is the conclusion i drew from the facts that prove my points.

but sucks and huge piece of crap were meant in the connotaion of opinion, and i will ADMIT that those statements are OPINION.

Thus it is at the END of my post. thats why it is a conclusion i have drawn.

its like when you write an essay, you say what your going to say, then you say it, then you say what youve just said.

like this:

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Heres why i think the matrix sucks. heres proof why it does suck point A, B, and C. (granted suck is slang and connotates opinion.) but saying its a BAD movie is what suck means in "slang terms" and that is why i say "the matrix sucks."

it was not proof of anything and i wasnt denoting it as such:

it was used in the context of the SPOKEN WORD.

noticed how i said I REPLIED and the quotation marks?
it was meant as the spoken word, and thats all.

but if you want to get technical then fine:

slang -- (informal language consisting of words and expressions that are not considered appropriate for formal occasions; often vituperative or vulgar; "their speech was full of slang expressions")

and YES there is a definition

suck-- see slang. Verb. To be worthless, contemptible or disgusting. E.g."The storyline in that book is a little contrived and the characters suck."

crap--Noun. 1. Nonsense, rubbish, something useless or not good.
2. An act of defecation.
3. Faeces.
Exclam. An exclamation of disbelief, annoyance.
Verb. To defecate. Defecate is infact a euphemism meaning to purify or cleanse. E.g."He crapped behind a tree and wiped his arse (anus) with a huge leaf."
Adj. Rubbishy, of no worth

so there.

jockeyshiftit wrote:

Buddy, I think you misunderstood. I can speculate about the movie too. If you believe what you typed, than the movie should have been quite entertaining for you. However I doubt you were sitting in the movie theater coming up with these conclusions. The fact is that these flaws were not addressed in the movie where it counts. If the flaws were addressed in the movie, instead of some message board, I still think it would have been a stinker due to the excess of cgi and poor choice of endings.

Yeah what-eveeer! Talk to the hand.

I thought all the answers given to those questions were spot on and obvious. If you had trouble understanding those things then I feel sorry for you because you are obviously a loser. Byeeee!

Raksasha69 wrote:

so there.

i start my posts with "i dont give a shit" and you end yours with that

are we even now my friend?

hahaha

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i start my posts with "i dont give a shit" and you end yours with that are we even now my friend?

what?

uh.

ok.