»Some evidence against MwM«

Lysander wrote:

The gold stuff isn't code. At least, not like the matrix code. There are no characters.

nitpicking and irrelevant. he can see the machine world but not his own with no eyes (my pont).

Grendelvs wrote:

Lysander wrote: The gold stuff isn't code. At least, not like the matrix code. There are no characters. nitpicking and irrelevant. he can see the machine world but not his own with no eyes (my pont).

So your point is something that's totally obvious? Thanks for your contribution.

Your question: "if it were MwM, he should be able to see all of [the code], don't you think?"

My answer: he's not seeing code.

well, what is it? the crux of my point is, why can he see only the machine world and not anything else if it's MwM? this seems to be one of the strongest things against the MwM theory.

if you're done nitpicking, please try to explain it to me, as i only catch the obvious.

i don't think that Zion is "real" as we know it BUT Its not a matrix within a matrix.

The gold code is the key to how I see it.

Many people seem think the gold code code is only in the machine city, I dissagree, the source is everywhere (we see it at the start of revolutions, in the oracles appartment and when neo fights bain), however, it is more DENSE in the machine city.

(This is reflected in the same way that the matrix code (green) must be more dense in a matrix city - i.e. there would be code for the functioning of trees, wind, air, etc etc out of the city but in the city there is more going on - loads of people, buildings, cars, etc etc.)

The films visually represent four perceptions:

1) the matrix
2) the green code

3) the real world
4) the gold code


these two pairs are obviously related - i.e. the matrix/green code is a copy of the "real" world/gold code.

What i am not saying is that the real world is another matrix.
The point being made is that our Real world is based on building blocks - atoms, electons, quarks and rules of how these interact - gravity, electromagnetism etc. So these levels are there just for the puropse of analogy to our world.

Therefore the idea of a matrix within a matrix kind of misses the point for me - its not endless levels of matrix within a matrix - the levels in the movie (1,2,3,4) just take the concept of copies/simulation one step deeper.

(You can ask how do we know that the real world/gold code is not a copy? The answer is we don't really - in the same way we don't really know for sure in the our real world check the "brain in a vat" theory on an internet search)

But whether the levels go on forever isnt really a question worth investigating - what I see as the one of the main purpuses is how we "attach" meaning to things we perceive - we percieve what we experience as real (because we percieve them this way they ARE real) - but if we are able to consider them as copies / images / relfections / icons / symbols of something else (not necessarily something physical) then maybe it is possible to acheive a deeper understanding of what we are experiencing.