»In one word: What is the trilogy about?«

Evolusionary wrote:

Capt may actually be closer to the truth than anyone else...however, from a literary standpoint we must at least give some paucity of credibility to the fact the movie has some point. The point is about truth. And the truth is....there is no point! Wouldn't you say Capt?

I will bring out a favorite quote of mine from the X-Files.

"THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE"

The truth is out there, but so are the lies.- Dana Scully



The truth is that there is no truth!

Evolusionary wrote:

... however, from a literary standpoint we must at least give some paucity of credibility to the fact the movie has some point.

Why? That's an expectation of the films imposed by fans, but why?

What's the point of Lord of the Rings books? What's the point of Joyce's Ulysses? Great literature has never had a requirement of having a didactic point. In fact, being overly didactic is usually a sign of bad literature.

Is it because the films evoke the feeling of mythology, and so therefore people feel they must contain a specific preached moral?

The films are meant to be taken the way any great story is meant to be taken, as stories. There is no scene cut off from the end in which Larry Wachowski comes out and says "And so they all learned a valuable lesson-- That you too can prevent forest fires."

CaptPostMod wrote:

The films are meant to be taken the way any great story is meant to be taken, as stories.

Maybe it could be said that the films are to be taken the way any great story is to be taken: however you want to take them. I think the best stories or movies are ones that can be broken down to multiple levels and in many different ways.

As for how they're meant to been taken; only the W's would know that.

good times

Aquin wrote:

As for how they're meant to been taken; only the W's would know that.

And from interviews it would seem they fully agree with us.

CaptPostMod wrote:

The films are meant to be taken the way any great story is meant to be taken, as stories.

Aquin wrote:

I think the best stories or movies are ones that can be broken down to multiple levels and in many different ways.

What purpose do your writings serve?

AgentDragon wrote:

The truth is that there is no truth!

Ah, but then "Wine is strong, a king is stronger, women are even stronger, but truth will conquer all."

CaptPostMod wrote:

And from interviews it would seem they fully agree with us.

Perhaps, but again we're inferring. Like I said, I'm not decided. I just can't buy that they would be doing such a mindjob on the viewers.



ps - intell, were you refering to me? hope not. i try to have something to say when i do even if it is

So do writers and directors.

Aquin wrote:

Perhaps, but again we're inferring.

No we're not. The brothers have said they do not give answers because they prefer discussion. It is the question that drives us.

Larry Wachowski- "Yeah, I mean, you make a work of art and you want it to be provocative, you want people to dialog about it, you don't want them to rely on somebody to tell them what it is, the whole nature of the movie is exactly that... inspective and pursue it yourself... Yeah, it seems hypocritical for us to go out and tell everybody what it's supposed, or what you're supposed to think about it, and even if I was to do it or Andy was to do it and in the gentlest of terms and try to contextualize it as what it means to us... it... because, by the very nature of us being the creators of it, it becomes, you know, law, THE interpretation, and anyone else's interpretation is just... some crazy individual that really doesn't get it. I don't wanna devalue anybody's opinion of it, because they're all... that's, I don't know, I think that's one of the reasons that art is a worthwhile experience... "

Aquin wrote:

Like I said, I'm not decided. I just can't buy that they would be doing such a mindjob on the viewers.

What mindjob? I don't understand where this argument comes from-- the idea that if the Matrix lacks a didactic point it is a sham or a mindjob? Does this come from being compared to the rest of the mundane world of Hollywood where everything is spelled out and is designed solely to teach some silly moral?

People seem to be under the mistaken impression that the W's have/or claim to have experienced enlightenment themselves. They are only guys expressing ideas and painting images they enjoy. It's a work of art! Signs in the bathroom with pictures of happy stick figure employees washing their hands have a point, the Mona Lisa does not.

Why would the films need a specific moral, a word to be about, in order to not be a "mindjob?"

I'm legitimately confused by this line of thinking, please explain.

CaptPostMod wrote:

Aquin wrote: Perhaps, but again we're inferring. No we're not. The brothers have said they do not give answers because they prefer discussion. It is the question that drives us. Larry Wachowski- "Yeah, I mean, you make a work of art and you want it to be provocative, you want people to dialog about it, you don't want them to rely on somebody to tell them what it is, the whole nature of the movie is exactly that... inspective and pursue it yourself... Yeah, it seems hypocritical for us to go out and tell everybody what it's supposed, or what you're supposed to think about it, and even if I was to do it or Andy was to do it and in the gentlest of terms and try to contextualize it as what it means to us... it... because, by the very nature of us being the creators of it, it becomes, you know, law, THE interpretation, and anyone else's interpretation is just... some crazy individual that really doesn't get it. I don't wanna devalue anybody's opinion of it, because they're all... that's, I don't know, I think that's one of the reasons that art is a worthwhile experience... "

Ok, cool. I get your point here. But by definition we actually are infrerring what they meant because they never tell us exactly. Which by the way is cool. I like that. We don't need to be told and its fun to discuss.

CaptPostMod wrote:

Aquin wrote: Like I said, I'm not decided. I just can't buy that they would be doing such a mindjob on the viewers. What mindjob? I don't understand where this argument comes from-- the idea that if the Matrix lacks a didactic point it is a sham or a mindjob? Does this come from being compared to the rest of the mundane world of Hollywood where everything is spelled out and is designed solely to teach some silly moral? People seem to be under the mistaken impression that the W's have/or claim to have experienced enlightenment themselves. They are only guys expressing ideas and painting images they enjoy. It's a work of art! Signs in the bathroom with pictures of happy stick figure employees washing their hands have a point, the Mona Lisa does not. Why would the films need a specific moral, a word to be about, in order to not be a "mindjob?" I'm legitimately confused by this line of thinking, please explain.

Well, I must confess I'm a bit confused as well. I never said that the films need to have a didactic plot or that the W's had some kind of enlightenment.

I only said that I dont buy into the W's throwing that loop (the Mwam theory) in into the movie when it seems to go against what all the characters have said the entire trilogy. Most everything else that was stated came true by one way or another.

Aquin wrote:

Ok, cool. I get your point here. But by definition we actually are infrerring what they meant because they never tell us exactly. Which by the way is cool. I like that. We don't need to be told and its fun to discuss.

Oh! I thought you were saying that I was only inferring that we were suppossed to infer.

Aquin wrote:

Well, I must confess I'm a bit confused as well. I never said that the films need to have a didactic plot or that the W's had some kind of enlightenment. I only said that I dont buy into the W's throwing that loop (the Mwam theory) in into the movie when it seems to go against what all the characters have said the entire trilogy. Most everything else that was stated came true by one way or another.

Oh, again! When'd we get on MwM? I missed a step. I thought we were talking about the idea that the Matrix can be boiled down to one word or didactic point. Nevermind then

yeah Cap, i have no idea either. (how mwam got here)

i think i got my threads mixed up.

Starting w/ this post -
Posted: 01.Aug.2006 17:56 Post subject: Re: In a Word


Um...*ahem* I fully agree that the films are open ended and brilliant.

Quote:

No we're not. The brothers have said they do not give answers because they prefer discussion. It is the question that drives us.

I think they should have a time limit on that rationale but not announce it ahead of time. I like 2009, ten years after The Matrix came out, they should say what they really intended. Then of course we could tell them how LAME they are.

But the word is:

Reality!

psikey

ps - Choices are meaningless until you figure out the reality applicable to that level of choice.

...it's pretty heavily emphasized in all three films, from the pills to going to machine city.
nin

the matrix is the truth, but wait it's not real it's just science fiction....right?

ALL IS ABOUT CHOICE

Destiny
*************************

It is Not about Choice.
It is about Destiny

It is a modern story about Jesus Christ.
The Bible the Directors cut.

When you have a Prophesy your future has been written for you and you do NOT have a CHOICE you can NOT change Destiny.

Morpheus: Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.


Oracle: Okay. Now I'm supposed to say, `Umm, that's interesting, but...' then you say...
Neo: But what?
Oracle: But you already know what I'm going to tell you.
Neo: I'm not the one.
Oracle: Sorry kiddo. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.

The Oracle: Candy?
Neo: D'you already know if I'm going to take it?
The Oracle: Wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't.
Neo: But if you already know, how can I make a choice?
The Oracle: Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now.



Open your eyes
**********************

Morpheus: We are looking for the Keymaker.
Merovingian: Oh yes, it is true. The Keymaker, of course. But this is not a reason, this is not a `why.'

Morpheus: Everything begins with choice.
Merovingian: No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without.

Merovingian: Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the "why". "Why" is what separates us from them, you from me. `Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.

The Oracle: He is called the Merovingian, and he will not let him go willingly.
Neo: What does he want?
The Oracle: What do all men with power want? More power.

Open your eyes the people in power are lying to you.
They are manipulating you.

More or less, it is the truth. Don't yet ask me about why I chose truth. You already more than understand me.