»I still think Zion is a construct !«

Hi...

I'm a newbie and my english is week so please be cool if i sound dumb...

Many people whine because of the end of REVOLUTIONS and the truce between humans and machines...


There is no peace...

The Machines have no choice...

Here' my theory :

When Smith and his clones die , I think that all the humans he infected die too...only the most "powerfull" programs survive...
We don't see mobs in the streets in the Matrix at the end of the film , we only see a few programs...

So how do the machines survive without humans batteries ?

Because there are other humans alive still plugged ... because ZION IS A CONSTRUCT ! When the Architect saw that certain matrix inhabitants didn't accept their world, he had to put them somewhere where they would accept it. This way, the Architect and the machines could still harness Zion’s inhabitants as batteries.

In RELOADED the Architect said : "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" It means : if you(Neo) crash the matrix by choosing to save Trinity we will use the survivors in the Zion's construct...

This is why Zion is spared in REVOLUTIONS...

At the end of REVOLUTIONS , Neo did what he should have done in RELOADED : to return to the source , let Trinity die and reload the Matrix like all his predecessors...
By saving Trinity who is meant to die anyway (the Architect said it)Neo let Smith take control of the Matrix in RELOADED...he could have stopped the Smiths early on from destroying the Matrix world , meanwhile, Bane (as another Smith) would have infiltrated Zion easily without Neo's intervention and facilitated the destruction of Zion.

Zion is the "blue Matrix" and Machine city is the source in this layer...The Architect also said in RELOADED : "The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race"

Why do the machines want Zion to be rebuilt , if it's not a construct ? Why ?

In every previous version of the Matrix, the people of Zion were destroyed and the majority people of the Matrix were preserved. In this version, the exact opposite happens. All people still in the Matrix (i mean the green matrix ) perish and Zion lives...


I also think that Neo and Trinity may be programs (Morpheus is human) this is why Neo can be so powerfull and why Trin is meant to die : a program is usually deleted when its funcion is fullfiled...Trin's function is to lead the ONE to the source.

Voilà

Why do machines need Neo? (if hes a program)

Could you be more precise ?

Trinity is indeed a program ! Like the keymaker in the 2nd film, who's purpose was to lead The One to the door. Which he did and then died because he's purpose as a program was fullfilled and therefore became deleted. The same happens with Trinity. And who knows Morp. in maybe M4 ?

S.

Quote:

When Smith and his clones die , I think that all the humans he infected die too...only the most "powerfull" programs survive...

This I think is impossible because at the end of th 3rd film The Oracle asks The Architect "And what about the others that want to be freed ?" (something like this)

If everyone is dead then there would be nobody left to free...

Correct ?

Nice theory Skhan...pretty similar to wat I had in mind. John...the Machine needs Neo to better understand human irrational thought process or decision making...the machine would then put in watever it had learned and patch the Matrix, better world for its crops therefore it can keeps on ticking and ticking and ticking....

hahahahahahahahah so stupid...so the best way to do that is to arm the liabilty with super powers

this...movie...is...so...fucked...up

John...How could it be a stupid move by the machine when it always has Neo under control? The movie is so screwed or is it tat your brain cant process tat I am assuming Zion is not real. The movie has flaws, but u must give reasons 4 ur intelligent conclusion than simply making tat stupid remarks. Any fool can do tat, u r probably better off donating ur body as battery, who knows u could be the one if u believe!

John...How could it be a stupid move by the machine when it always has Neo under control? The movie is so screwed or is it tat your brain cant process tat I am assuming Zion is not real. The movie has flaws, but u must give reasons 4 ur intelligent conclusion than simply making tat stupid remarks. Any fool can do tat, u r probably better off donating ur body as battery, who knows u could be the one if u believe!

matrixbn wrote:

John...How could it be a stupid move by the machine when it always has Neo under control? The movie is so screwed or is it tat your brain cant process tat I am assuming Zion is not real. The movie has flaws, but u must give reasons 4 ur intelligent conclusion than simply making tat stupid remarks. Any fool can do tat, u r probably better off donating ur body as battery, who knows u could be the one if u believe!

its a forced plot. why does the one always have super powers? why let 23 out? why not just kill em? the one is a normal human and evolves powers slowly , kill him before he is allmighty and b4 he is unplugged...

heres one

machines needed neo to understand the human nature better?

THEY HAVE BEEN MASTERING THE HUMANS FOR CENTURIES, and this requires some understanding, doesn't it?

in the animatrix, second rennaisance part 1, there's a scene shows machines investigating human brain working style. and this is just after the mankind blacked out the sky, so it is before the 1st version of the matrix.

the architect told this is the 6th version so, by now, they should be knowing every details about human.

so, neo is not for helping machines understand human nature, he is there for helping machines destroy agent smith.

machines needed neo because he is the ONLY ONE WHO HAS A CONNECTION WITH AGENT SMITH. thus, no one else could destroy smith. only neo, because of that, deus ex machina allowed him TO SPEAK.

Morpheus tells Neo in Matrix 1 that there was a man who woke up and could "remake the matrix as he saw fit". This guy did NOT sit bolt upright in his goop and climb down the powerplant tower, run across the wasteland with his atrophied legs and never-used eyes and start digging almost to the earth's core. He woke up after the architect agreed to implement the Oracle's suggestion - an almost subconscious perception that there is an alternate reality. This was to prevent "lost crops" when people woke up spontaneously. Zion was pre-built (programmed) for red-pills to 'escape' to. Zionites seem to buy the idea that over a period of 200 years, humans pulled this off. Commissioner Harman has no idea how the stuff at the engineering level works. If he doesn't, then nobody does.

sharakhan wrote:

Hi... I'm a newbie and my english is week so please be cool if i sound dumb... Many people whine because of the end of REVOLUTIONS and the truce between humans and machines... There is no peace... The Machines have no choice... Here' my theory : When Smith and his clones die , I think that all the humans he infected die too...only the most "powerfull" programs survive... We don't see mobs in the streets in the Matrix at the end of the film , we only see a few programs... So how do the machines survive without humans batteries ? Because there are other humans alive still plugged ... because ZION IS A CONSTRUCT ! When the Architect saw that certain matrix inhabitants didn't accept their world, he had to put them somewhere where they would accept it. This way, the Architect and the machines could still harness Zion’s inhabitants as batteries. In RELOADED the Architect said : "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" It means : if you(Neo) crash the matrix by choosing to save Trinity we will use the survivors in the Zion's construct... This is why Zion is spared in REVOLUTIONS... At the end of REVOLUTIONS , Neo did what he should have done in RELOADED : to return to the source , let Trinity die and reload the Matrix like all his predecessors... By saving Trinity who is meant to die anyway (the Architect said it)Neo let Smith take control of the Matrix in RELOADED...he could have stopped the Smiths early on from destroying the Matrix world , meanwhile, Bane (as another Smith) would have infiltrated Zion easily without Neo's intervention and facilitated the destruction of Zion. Zion is the "blue Matrix" and Machine city is the source in this layer...The Architect also said in RELOADED : "The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race" Why do the machines want Zion to be rebuilt , if it's not a construct ? Why ? In every previous version of the Matrix, the people of Zion were destroyed and the majority people of the Matrix were preserved. In this version, the exact opposite happens. All people still in the Matrix (i mean the green matrix ) perish and Zion lives... I also think that Neo and Trinity may be programs (Morpheus is human) this is why Neo can be so powerfull and why Trin is meant to die : a program is usually deleted when its funcion is fullfiled...Trin's function is to lead the ONE to the source. Voilà

This guy is correct for the most part but I will post the definitive matrix theory which will become Law in the future....

John Mirra wrote:

Why do machines need Neo? (if hes a program)

The arch. needs him because Neo (the program) balances the equation which has been thrown out of whack by the Oracle. Neo provides balance which is his purpose which is what drives him and guides him...

This is my first post. Here it goes:

The war for control between machine and humans was lost long ago. Fact, I'd argue that we've started losing that war already (2003).

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Councillor Hamann: Almost no one comes down here, unless, of course, there's a problem. That's how it is with people - nobody cares how it works as long as it works. I like it down here. I like to be reminded this city survives because of these machines. These machines are keeping us alive, while other machines are coming to kill us. Interesting, isn't it? Power to give life, and the power to end it.

Neo: We have the same power.

Councillor Hamann: I suppose we do, but down here sometimes I think about all those people still plugged into the Matrix and when I look at these machines, I.. I can't help thinking that in a way, we are plugged into them.

Neo: But we control these machines, they don't control us.

Councillor Hamann: Of course not, how could they? The idea's pure nonsense, but... it does make one wonder just... what is control?

Neo: If we wanted, we could shut these machines down.

Councillor Hamann: Of course... that's it. You hit it! That's control, isn't it? If we wanted, we could smash them to bits. Although if we did, we'd have to consider what would happen to our lights, our heat, our air.

Neo: So we need machines and they need us. Is that your point, Councillor?

Councillor Hamann: No, no point. Old men like me don't bother with making points. There's no point.

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Actually, I think Hamann nails it on the head, there's no point - to anything said or done in the Matrix - but that is not within the scope of this thread.

Let’s start with my analysis...
... in M1, you are left thinking that Neo will somehow beat the Matrix and free everyone. In M2, after talking with the Architect, you can't help but think Neo is a puppet. Neo, supposedly, is on version 6. We don't know this to be true or not. I think it's a lie. Regardless, you learn that Neo is an eventuality, not a hero. This point is reconfirmed enough throughout the movies to render it a fact. Other elements of the conversation between Neo and the Architect are also fact (or as close to fact as we can get). These “facts” are listed below:

#1) Not everyone will accept the Matrix, regardless of design. The Architect (and Agent Smith) believes that he erred by making the Matrix too perfect, thus perfectly incongruent with our nature. People kept on waking up! Big problem. Solution? Make the Matrix imperfect. I think a better word choice is CHAOTIC.

#2) The problem is CHOICE. Most likely, in the first version of the Matrix, people were not given choice. Choice is a variable, which if subject to reason alone, could most likely offer predictable patterns, but compounded with human emotions, is entirely random. Computers can not control or prepare for random events. Throughout the movies, the Computer struggles to understand human choice.

#3) Neo, "despite (the architects) sincerest efforts”, is an eventuality. Call it the law of probabilities. Life in the Matrix is the sum of CHAOTIC events offset by various balancing agents/programs/entities that provide the Architect some acceptable degree of harmony. However, because the Matrix is not perfect, the harmony is not infinite. Eventually, the balance is lost and the Matrix unravels. Neo is the sum of an imbalanced equation. He is the tear in the fabric of the Matrix.

Ok, now follow me here: Choice leads to random which leads to chaos. Chaos over time creates constant change. Perpetual change compounded with Darwinism results in evolution (Darwinism can be reduced to a set of simple rules). Evolution adopts a shotgun approach: hit it with all you’ve got, and see what sticks. In life, choice allows evolution to branch into a seemingly infinite variety of paths. One path will eventually lead to Neo. By definition, in a perfect world there should be no need for evolution. I think this is why the first version of the Matrix failed. Humans are compelled to evolve, to change. It’s in our nature. A perfect Matrix, from a computer’s perspective, implies no change, no evolution – a static state.

So the Computer had a problem (people waking up), which was solved by inserting another problem (choice), which results in yet another problem (instability), which ultimately leads to the final problem (Neo).

The solution? Zion.

Now, whether Zion is real or not (I’m actually inclined to believe in the Matrix-within-a-Matrix theory) is not important. What is important is that the Machines could destroy Zion at any moment, but it chooses not to. Why?

Herein lies the main point: Zion is no match for the Machines. Zion’s fight for survival in M3 was pathetic. Heroic at best, but ultimately hopeless. Never in 100 versions of Neo will the Machine lose this war. The machine - a product of human intellect and thus imbedded with out traits, such as strive for constant improvement - has a quicker evolution rate than humans within the Matrix. Next round, the Machine will be even more efficient in destroying Zion if it chooses to do so.

But it won’t. And it’s because Zion serves a crucial role: pressure release value.

And what makes all this comical is that the machine does not care about any of this. The Architect’s sole purpose is to keep the battery cells plugged in. If this means playing Romeo and Juliet with them, so be it. If it means threatening to destroy Zion to arm-wrestle Neo to sacrifice himself, so be it.

Neo, I believe, ultimately understood this. Think about it: If you unplug everyone, the Machine will eventually run out of juice. You’d figure the machines built reserves, but reserves are not infinite. But now you have another problem. How do you feed all those freed people? They’d starve! The world is a barren wasteland. The relationship is symbiotic, as it is today.

How does the Oracle fit in all this? She is CHOICE.

Enough for now.

Other thought: The Matrix is the Machine's biggest weakness, vulnarable to viruses that can disable the entire machine world. Our flesh is no match for the steel of machines, but our minds can destabilized the Matrix.

Food for thought: Humans willingly submitted themselves into the Matrix after torching the world in the hopes of sleeping through the 1,000-year nuclear winter.

I agree with all except John