»'godel, escher, bach:an eternal golden braid' and the matrix«

hi there.
i'm not one to post on forums like this, but i think i have come across something that is pretty cool...maybe.

last month, my mom gave me a book for my 22nd birthday:

'godel, escher, bach: the eternal golden braid. a metaphorical fugue on minds and machines in the spirit of lewis carroll' by douglas r. hofstadter

its impossible to explain, but the book attempts to show that math, music, and art are really the same, and are at the core of everything -- programming, self-awareness, language, translation. as i was reading it, some of the sections seemed to be parallels of the matrix -- discussions about 'strange loops' in programming and in communication such as:

1. the next statement is true.
2. the preceding statement is false.

'strange loops' occur when the axioms of a system are 'well-formed', as 1 and 2 above are, and the syntax is correct, but the statement's relationship with each other cause the system to break apart.

also --
before ever scientific exposition offered by the author, is a dialogue in the style of lewis carroll between carroll's characters achilles, the tortoise and the crab. obviously, the term 'rabbit hole' comes from a carroll piece.

now...i don't have the patience to lay out everything in the book that relates to the matrix, and some of it is a mite trivial, and i didn't even feel it was that important, until i read about the kid.

his name is Michael Karl Popper, yes?
he has the ability to move in and out of the matrix without help, yes?

well...the prelude to chapter four is a dialogue between achilles and the crab called 'little harmonic labrynth'.

essentially, the reader learns that in the world of achilles and the crab, people can enter painings-- that is, enter the world of art by drinking a potion called 'pushing potion.' you 'push' into paintings and have a look around. you can even enter PAINTINGS WITHIN PAINTINGS...and on and on.

to get out of a painting, you use -- get this -- 'popping tonic'.
so in the world of 'godel, escher, bach'; 'popping' is defined as consciously traveling between realities that are imaginary, or abstract.

Michael Karl Popper.


after realizing that this book may be one of the main influences of the matrix saga, i started reading it all over again with that in mind. well this time its almost like i am reading directly from the mind of the filmmakers.

i don't know if i am crazy or what, but its pretty damn cool..the math, the endlessly rising canons, the programming, infinite loops, art within art [see the architect's speech about how the first matrix was in fact a work of art.], notions of the self, consciousness, and even zen buddhism.

check it out. let me know if i am nuts.

some pretty good info:
forum2.org...

the author sayeth:
"In a word," writes Hofstadter in the new preface, "GEB is a very personal attempt to say how it is that animate beings can come out of inanimate matter. What is a self, and how can a self come out of stuff that is as selfless as a stone or a puddle?". His explanation goes on, and clarifies at least one thing: despite its beautiful playfulness, GEB is a serious book presenting a serious theory about consciousness. Despite its popularity, it is not a "popular science" book.

hmm. sounds like a film i know.

thanks for the info and the book

You are not going mad. I recently discovered by pure chance GEB and am about half way through it. I too saw the overwhelming similarities to the matrix.
Your so right about the pushing and popping potions in little harmonic labrynth. Note the phials are also coloured red and blue. Neo took what is obviously popping potion.
The chapters to do with Godel numbering and TNT coding are just like when cypher talks about seeing things in the code of the matrix, ' a red head, a blonde..' hofstadter talks about evntually no longer seeing the code but the meaning, think of neo's enlightenement at the end...note also the stunning comparisons to zen busshism?