»Crippling the MwM theory...«

StaticAge (in response to Aka) wrote:

In the real world, you can quarantine viruses, run separate yet interactive programing commands- on my Mac I can run Unix, Windows, OS X, and OS 9 through virtual environments.

In the real world, we tend to lock up (in either prisons or institutions), sedate, or find other ways to marginalise and minimalise the input from those humans who reject consensus reality. Basically, we ignore them, unless the arguments they give are so compelling or convincing that we have to listen.

Even then, we find ways to distort those messages to our own ends. In a way, we create our own versions of the matrix, using consensus reality to overlay any underlying perceptions or realities.

Who knows, maybe the suicides from the "Heaven's Gate" cult did end up in a spaceship somewhere. Trouble is, there's no real way of confirming this without following them, which is a choice most people choose not to take.

Let's put down two kinds of scenarios; one being the famous matrix-within-the-matrix theory, and the other being the one with the existence of only one matrix.
Let's start off with the second one. Concidering that we already know that as the population of the matrix-virtual-world gets bigger and bigger, the probabilities of an anomaly to emerge gets bigger. We know that upon all test subjects, aprox. 99% accepts the program, and only 1% refuses it; 0.0001% of the 100% is the anomaly, or the One. Well, then we come to the idea of it being neccesary to reload the matrix in order to stop the probabbilities to get bigger(as well as stoping the inevitability of the creation of AI inside of the matrix, which can't happen , otherwise there would be too many anomalies to control in too many matrix, infinite matrix), as well as to control that one anomaly and with its code reboot the matrix itself. We also know that all rebelds are "hidding" in Zion, and that they could be concidered as the 1% of all test subjects which don't accept the matrix(Neo is the 0.000001%; the anomaly), so in other words, all of Zion's population are the 1% which refuse the matrix, so we come to the idea of it being neccesay to destroy Zion in order to destroy all freed minds. That's where the Architect and the Oracle gain importance into this matter. As the Matrix cicle beggins,(for all of you who don't know, it starts on the year 1980 and ends on 2009) we know that Zion is rebuilt by every predocessor(the One) chosing 23 people from the matrix,(not from Zion) to this we sum the One and the Ocacle, which all form the resistance. Corcordantly, Zion's population grows each day, freeing more and more minds to join the resistance, and to keep them with hope and purpose, when the One dies, the Oracle foretells the prophesy to the rebelds, saying that the One would eventually come back again, this is THE purpose for the rebelds to go on, to carry on. And eventually the anomaly does show up, here is when the Oracle has to find it, control it, to guide it to his path, the one which finishes with the Architect in the source. He is supposed to choose the right door, which leads to the salvation of Zion, and the reboot of the matrix, and eventually the death of the One in some time on. This cicle, as we know, has happened 5 past times already, and Neo's is the sixth.
My point here is that, if the machines have to dig to find Zion, destroy it everytime to eliminate and control the freed minds(or humans wich don't accept the matrix), in order to then reaload the matrix and start the cicle again.....then wouldn't it be too much work for them to do this everytime?

It is here where we pass to the second scenario, the one of the matrix-within-the-matrix theory. Let's call the first known matrix as the Alpha matrix, and the "real world" as the Beta matrix. As I see it, it would be a much easier work for the machines to make the "real world" another matrix, another control, this way, the actual machines don't have to dig that much to find and destroy Zion, the only one's who would be doing this would be actual PROGRAMS inside of the "real world", inside the Beta matrix, therefore making it alltogether antoher way of control, to keep those "freed minds" in a measure of control, those minds, as they have already waken up, it's ilogical for them to don't accept the "real world" as they see, becacuse it would be as to wake up from a dream and then wake up again from the "reality".

Now, aside from this, I support my theory with two mayor basis:
1) Neo stopping the sentinels outside of the matrix, there are two possible explanations for this:

a) There is a matrix outside of the matrix, therefore, if he in fact has control over the machines in that way, he has control of the area's laws, making it possible for it to be another matrix, another prison for the mind.
b) Neo's mind is separated from his body after the conversation with the Architect his mind stayed in the source, thus when he actualy stopped the sentinels, he in fact disconected them from the source: I'm not on favor of this theory becuase I believe the body can not live without the mind.


2) Smith getting out of the matrix by Banes' body has 2 possible explanations:
a) The only possible explanation for Smith getting out of the matrix via the phone,it is that in fact the "real world" is another matrix, another system in which in this case Smith(the program) can travell to, as this two systems are connected and he can download himself into Bane's mind(this does have a basis of HOW it(smith) downloads himself to Bane's mind).
b) When a mind like Bane's, which can jack in and jack out of the matrix via his hole in the back of his neck(freed mind), then he/she can have a connection with the system of the matrix, thus making it possible for a program as Smith (virus, or "freed" program)to "download" itself to someone'e mind outside of the matrix(it has no basis on HOW it download's itself). I rather think this theory is nearly not possible.

Now, many questions arise from this theory, which can contradict it, but they have their own arguments and possible answers;

" Why not pull the plugs instead of sending sentinels?" In final terms, becuase they(the machines) need to find the anomaly, and it is escencial to reload the matrix, the anomaly needs to be controled.Another question arises from this fact; "Why not pull the plugs of the anomaly once found?" Becuase they NEED IT to reload the matrix. If they don't send the sentinels, what do you think would happen next? Many things would inevitably happen:

a) The rebelds would have all of their time to free every mind on the matrix, one by one. Now if in fact there is a matrix outside of the known matrix, why not pull the plugs to eliminate the rebelds an the One? Because they need to reload the matrix with the ONE'S PRIME CODE(I will talk about this later on*) inside of him, they need to reboot the matrix and start the cicle again.
b) They need to control the anomaly that emerges from the mathemathical error in the matrix, which gets bigger(the probabilites of an anomaly to emerge) as the population of the matrix grows.
c) They also need to reaload the matrix in order to stop the actual creation of AI inside of the matrix, because that would make infinite layers matrix's one inside the other and would bring up too many anomalies to control, would be out of control.
Now, how do they(the machines) get the anomaly to insert his prime code and reload the matrix? By leading him to the source. Why did Neo(in this case) arrived to the source? By going to the Oracle.Why did he go to the Oracle? Because Zion was about to get destroyed, they have limited time in their hands, if not, they would take the time to free everyone's mind one by one; if they hadn't seen the last transmision from the Osiris, and wouldn't be aware of the danger that threatens Zion, they would be taking their time.The Oracle lead them to the Keymaker, the Keymaker lead them to the Source, the source lead Neo to the Architect, the Architect lead Neo to the choice of the two doors. It is the process that NEEDS to be executed in order to RELOAD the matrix and control the minds which reject the matrix(rebelds and the One)

Now this huge process leads us to square one, where it is very possible of both theories to be correct or wrong, it could be a single matrix, or a matrix within a matrix.....
But, which of both of them is easier for the machines to execute?......yes.... you can answer it yourself.....the matrix within the matrix....if the machines make another matrix outside of the know matrix, then the one's who have to dig to find Zion, to do the one after one pain in the ass job, are PROGRAMS......programs inside of a matrix, a system of control.

* I got another theory refering to Neo's importance in the matrix:
I believe that when the Architect stated that he was frustrated by failure when trying to make a stable matrix, he said that maybe he needed a "lesser mind". This makes me think that maybe he NEEDS to use Neo's mind. Let me explain myself; He inserts the PRIME PROGRAM OR CODE of the matrix in him, he uses his mind and the code to "reflect" the reality of the matrix to all the other minds inside the system, thus this way a imperfect mind reflects like a mirror the reality and he serves as a "FILTER" for everyone's perception of the illusion world. If this were to be true, then Neo is UNDOUBTLY NEEDED to RELOAD and "REFLECT" the matrix in an "unperfect"(or less perfect mind) way, thus making it possible for a computer generated world to be stable and going on.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS THEORY?
PIUKNEO.

LauraS wrote:

Because it keeps the anomaly contained and away from the rest of the Matrix. The basic problem the Architect had with earlier versions of the matrix was keeping people from being bored. People stayed alive while they were interested in living, and died, when they lost it. That's where the "apparent" choice came in, as people generally lose interest in something unless either a) it's life threatening or b) they have a choice. Consider the scene M#1 where Smith confronts "Mr Anderson" and states clearly "you have a choice" and attempts to force him to make that choice. Left to his own devices, Neo would have just drifted, because the consensus version of the matrix was too boring for him, and maybe died from overdosing on something. Now that he's been 'freed", he has an interest in living again, and a focus in his actions. But, he's also out of the main environment (I'll call that the "consensus" section of the Matrix, as opposed to the "zion" section). When he interacts with it, it's generally only to talk or fight with programs -- when's the last time you saw him talk to an "ordinary person"? Also, they can still still die if they die in the consensus section, and their efforts in returning to it and fighting everyone heighten the chance. it means that they burn themselves up quicker (and no doubt any disturbance caused is explained away as "terrorist actions"). StaticAge wrote: There is a big difference between a file and the plot of the Matrix: your file has no free will. The problem the Architect maps out to Neo is based on an anomaly caused by free will. Ever tried to read a file and get a "read/write" error? Maybe that's the equivalent of "freewill" (the file's deciding not to be read). On my PC, it will hang and I get repeated error messages, which have to be answered before I can proceed. StaticAge wrote: Aside from that, the solution people outline in MwM theories hinges on the assumption that everyone will accept a second matrix- thats wholly unrealistic and it goes against the basic premise of the movie... ...How would the machines know how to satisfy their curiousity? They have never successfully been able to satisfy 100% of people. They give them a focus to concentrate on, a problem that can't be solved, like overthrowing the consensus section. And maybe the zion section doesn't take as much to maintain as the consensus section. It might be more economical in processing time to have 250,000 troublemakers in the zion section, than in consensus.

I like the theory that humans die of boredom. Thats not exactly how I took it, but its an interesting concept. But while you explain the apparent function of a MwM well, but you miss the points of my reasons of disagreement.

The problem isnt just what function a second Matrix would play if it existed. The problem I see is that the if purpose of creating that Matrix is as you describe, then why would the machines ALSO schedule them for destruction? Let me rephrase the situation:

In the MwM theory, the machines create a second level/layer of the Matrix in order to protect their crop of rebel humans from escaping and then they kill those rebels by destroying Zion.

Its like protecting your money from theives by throwing it in the fire- it succeeds in preventing theives from using the money, but it goes against the purpose of why you would want to keep your money away from them in the first place.

And a read/write error is not a suitable comparison I think for free will. Free will implies life, intelligence, and choice; and a read/write error is a simple discrepancy, corrupted file or whatever.

Lastly, if Zion was a matrix, no matter what kinds of deviation were there to occupy the humans, the people contained therein have a prediliction to question reality. There should still be at least SOME who would still feel the madness, the drive. Besides, there are even more things to occupy people
inside the Matrix. The machines have never been able to create a system that worked perfectly and was accepted by humans. I dont think its reasonable to think if they couldnt do it any other time before, that now they can, no matter what function the "reality" serves. Furthermore, its like if someone knew you hid your money inside a particular box, hiding the money inside an identical box you place inside the first box wouldnt outsmart anyone. If you found out reality wasnt real, wouldnt the first thing you did in the newly revealed "real" world be to question that reality also?

StaticAge wrote:

In the MwM theory, the machines create a second level/layer of the Matrix in order to protect their crop of rebel humans from escaping and then they kill those rebels by destroying Zion. Its like protecting your money from theives by throwing it in the fire- it succeeds in preventing theives from using the money, but it goes against the purpose of why you would want to keep your money away from them in the first place.

Ok, so like you're saying that the MwM is like the following quote structure...

Recursive Model wrote:

Zion matrix wrote: Consensus

...but what if it's more like...

Section Model wrote:

"Reality" matrix section wrote: Consensus matrix section wrote: Zion matrix section wrote: Another "unknown" section

In that case, Zion becomes but one "investment" (and a high risk one at that) and an expendible one as well. perhaps when they get too close to the truth, it's time for them to die. This would be akin to "writing off" a bad debt.

StaticAge wrote:

And a read/write error is not a suitable comparison I think for free will. Free will implies life, intelligence, and choice; and a read/write error is a simple discrepancy, corrupted file or whatever.

Perhaps from the point of the view of the operator, but what about that of the file? And what if "free will" really is an illusion, a story our internal narrator tells us to explain quantum indeterminancy within our neurons?

StaticAge wrote:

If you found out reality wasnt real, wouldnt the first thing you did in the newly revealed "real" world be to question that reality also?

Perhaps, if you were given time enough to do so. The threat of the machines seems to keep the people we see in the films focussed on survival first. Maybe 250,000 is a key number here, a "critical mass". Maybe above that level, you have enough spare people so that they have time to think about things and do question reality, and maybe that's why the machines destroy Zion at that point.

Maybe also, it's easier to cull 250,000 "defective" humans if they're all in the one section (Zion) than scattered in a larger environment (Consensus).

But then, why wasn't the first thing Neo did -- once he was aboard Morpheous's ship -- to question whether or not that was reality either? It seems an obvious first question for any new intake.

Come to think of it, what do the bulk of Zions's inhabitants do all the time

Some people would be needed for defence (20-50 ships + static defenses), and some to maintain the equipment that enables them to survivive under the earth, but that'd hardly be more than a few hundred, surely? In M#2 we barely saw a few thousand (maybe).

This puzzle actually points away from Zion being real. If it were, surely more would be happening.

PiukNeo wrote:

Now, aside from this, I support my theory with two mayor basis: 1) Neo stopping the sentinels outside of the matrix, there are two possible explanations for this...

There is another (she says in best "Obi Wan" voice)...

c) The sentinals may have also been controlled remotely by programs that both monitor the Matrix, and their progress in destroying humans. These programs see that it's Neo they face, and "self-destruct" the sentinals in an effort to fool Neo (for some reason yet explained) into thinking he has extra powers. Thus Neo didn't stop the sentinals as he thinks!

The real anomaly is not that neo appears to stop the sentinals, rather it is that he can feel them in what seems to be "reality".

PiukNeo wrote:

2) Smith getting out of the matrix by Banes' body has 2 possible explanations: b) When a mind like Bane's, which can jack in and jack out of the matrix via his hole in the back of his neck(freed mind), then he/she can have a connection with the system of the matrix, thus making it possible for a program as Smith (virus, or "freed" program)to "download" itself to someone'e mind outside of the matrix(it has no basis on HOW it download's itself). I rather think this theory is nearly not possible.

But we have no way of knowing just how humans are "hard-wired" in the first place. What if there's a substantial bit of "wet ware" -- actual hardware implanted into the brain that forms part of its neural network? That part could be overwritten and changed at will. This would also explain why humans would die in "reality" when they die in the Matrix -- that part would be cleared and their brains (including autonomic functions) stop.

LauraS wrote:

Ok, so like you're saying that the MwM is like the following quote structure... ...but what if it's more like... In that case, Zion becomes but one "investment" (and a high risk one at that) and an expendible one as well. perhaps when they get too close to the truth, it's time for them to die. This would be akin to "writing off" a bad debt.

Laura, I think the different layouts for the systems of level or matrices are cool ideas. But a different organization or structure still doesnt explain why they plan to kill them after going through all this trouble to keep them alive and in servitude... (Unless what you are implying is that reality has not been revealed at all, humans arent really needed for power, there is no matrix etc. In that case I would agree that its logical, but I dont think thats where the plot is going)

I guess we'll have to wait and see. One week to go.

LAURA, HAVE YOU SEEN THE MATRIX 3 TRAILER? IT CLEARLY BOMBS YOUR ARGUMENTS ON NEO BEING "FOOLED" BY THE MACHINES ON MAKING HIM BELIEVE THAT HE HAS POWERS, UNLESS THE "FOOLING" GOES ON, THEN NEO STOPPING MORE SENTINELS LIKE SHOWN ON THE TRAILER IS MORE THAN OBVIOUS. ALSO, A FRIEND OF MINE TOLD ME THAT HE SAW ANOTHER TRAILER WHERE NEO IS SHOWN FLYING IN THE "REAL WORLD".....JUST A FACT....
PIUKNEO.

PiukNeo wrote:

LAURA, HAVE YOU SEEN THE MATRIX 3 TRAILER? IT CLEARLY BOMBS YOUR ARGUMENTS ON NEO BEING "FOOLED" BY THE MACHINES ON MAKING HIM BELIEVE THAT HE HAS POWERS, UNLESS THE "FOOLING" GOES ON, THEN NEO STOPPING MORE SENTINELS LIKE SHOWN ON THE TRAILER IS MORE THAN OBVIOUS. ALSO, A FRIEND OF MINE TOLD ME THAT HE SAW ANOTHER TRAILER WHERE NEO IS SHOWN FLYING IN THE "REAL WORLD".....JUST A FACT.... PIUKNEO.

Neo doesn't fly in the real world.... Your friend is stupid.

Smith downloading into Bane is COMPLETELY logical. After all.. you remember everything that happens inside the matrix.. even though its a computer driven simulation.. and nothing inside the matrix actually occurs. You only remember cause the information was sent to you memory some how via the neural connection to the matrix. Having Smith sending all his code to Banes mind in such a way that Bane believes he is Smith and knows all of Smiths past is completely logical in terms of the movie.

As for Neos power outside the matrix.. we shall see. I'm sure it won't be a matrix inside a matrix.. although thats what i first assumed when I saw him stop them.. then I thought to myself.. hey this is a movie made by two anime lovers.. likely he'll just have some stop of connection to the matrix that we will have to submit ourselves to believing rather then having 100% physical prove.


Either way.. the major scenes (zion, neo/smith, neo/bane, Hammer) are more then enough for me to 'seal tha deal' for this movie closing out the trilogy. Even it its just a "neo has this connection that there is no physical prove for and uses it to get to the machine brain and strikes a deal and helps to kill Smith in the end but the matrix still loads but people are given the choice to leave if they want" ending... it'll be spectacular to watch and a fitting end to a get trilogy.

YES, MY FRIEND IS STUPID, IF THAT IS THE WAY TO ACCEPT A TRUTH, THEN FINE, BUT THEY WERE 2 FRIENDS WHO TOLD ME THAT NEO FLIES IN THE REAL WORLD, I DON'T THINK THEY WERE LYING....
PIUKNEO.

Quote:

My point here is that, if the machines have to dig to find Zion, destroy it everytime to eliminate and control the freed minds(or humans wich don't accept the matrix), in order to then reaload the matrix and start the cicle again.....then wouldn't it be too much work for them to do this everytime?

If you subscribe to this notion, that Zion must exist inside a macro-matrix because it would be too much trouble to dig and destroy Zion everytime, then you have to ask yourself this:

If Zion WAS within another Matrix .... why wouldn't the architect simply wipe it out automatically, with a wave of his hand? Why all the computational effort to stage this massive invasion by unreal Sentinels to kill unreal humans?

I'm afraid your hypothesis doesn't make sense in light of this argument. If we assume a cold, efficient machine-like logic to the machines, which we have witnessed, it doesn't make sense that they would then toy with the humans in such a manner when it would just be easier to shut it off and dump the bodies.

Man, it seems quite obvious thta you didn't understand my theory or misunderstood the arguments......they NEED NEO WITH HIS PRIME CODE TO RELOAD THE MATRIX, and for that they need Zion "alive" and later to come and attack it to be a theat so they go to the Oracle and neo gets to the source so the Architect can use his prime code to reload the matrix and keep the anomaly under control.
PiukNeo.

PiukNeo wrote:

they NEED NEO WITH HIS PRIME CODE TO RELOAD THE MATRIX

Why do they need neo to reload the matrix? What technical reason prohibits the machines from installing a 'Big Red Button' (tm) and pushing that to reboot the matrix? (Just like a hardware reboot on existing computers)

Why does Neo have to go through a process to bring the prime code to the matrix.... does this code change during the process or is it static. If it's static, then my Big Red Button theory applies.

If they need him to lead the new Zion, fine. Just chuck 23 people with him and then press the Big Red Button.

I'm surpised that hardly anyone has tried to look at this from a film point of view. Clifhangers are often made to be deceptive and yes this whole mwim could be a massive distraction from the truth. Ever noticed that the villian in scary movies is very rarely a character that gets a lot of screen time (in his normal persona?). The brothers probably want you to show up with all these misconceptions and blow your mind again, like they did in the original.

Heck, maybe the mwim doesn't have as wide a scope as what most people think. Maybe they did go to some physical Zion, and it was only at the very end of the movie did they actually go to a mwim. Maybe the Machines were trying to distract Neo while they were attacking Zion?

mrt, please read twice my theory.....here's the fragment of it.....

Quote:

* I got another theory refering to Neo's importance in the matrix: I believe that when the Architect stated that he was frustrated by failure when trying to make a stable matrix, he said that maybe he needed a "lesser mind". This makes me think that maybe he NEEDS to use Neo's mind. Let me explain myself; He inserts the PRIME PROGRAM OR CODE of the matrix in him, he uses his mind and the code to "reflect" the reality of the matrix to all the other minds inside the system, thus this way a imperfect mind reflects like a mirror the reality and he serves as a "FILTER" for everyone's perception of the illusion world. If this were to be true, then Neo is UNDOUBTLY NEEDED to RELOAD and "REFLECT" the matrix in an "unperfect"(or less perfect mind) way, thus making it possible for a computer generated world to be stable and going on. PiukNeo.

Dude you didn't understand a single thing from the movie did you.
The human minds carry information from within the matrix.. it is affected by the equation which makes up the matrix's design.. Neo is an anomoly which eventually happens.. they need to look as his noodle to see which parts of the matrix's equation fucked things up.

its simple
.

yes, I did undersant it, it's just that it is obvious that you did not understand my theory or didn't het the idea here......just answer this, how in hell does a "perfect" mind like the machine one(as said by the architect) can do to make a computer generated imperfect illusion world to work if he requires a "lesser mind" to do so? By using Neo's mind and prime code in him.Simple.....I did get the fact that he is an anomaly in the equation of the systematic mathematical error in the system of the matrix dude......just get the point here.

Ugh.. the architect programmed a perfect world.. and it failed... The mother of the matrix (The Oracle I speculate) was a 'lesser mind' (read: a program of the sysmtem not the designer of the system like the architect) and she stubbled upon the answer that people need to have a choice.

Listen to the Architects dialog again... how you came up with that idea baffles me. Maybe you don';t speak english.

PiukNeo wrote:

mrt, please read twice my theory.....here's the fragment of it..... Quote: * I got another theory refering to Neo's importance in the matrix: I believe that when the Architect stated that he was frustrated by failure when trying to make a stable matrix, he said that maybe he needed a "lesser mind". This makes me think that maybe he NEEDS to use Neo's mind. Let me explain myself; He inserts the PRIME PROGRAM OR CODE of the matrix in him, he uses his mind and the code to "reflect" the reality of the matrix to all the other minds inside the system, thus this way a imperfect mind reflects like a mirror the reality and he serves as a "FILTER" for everyone's perception of the illusion world. If this were to be true, then Neo is UNDOUBTLY NEEDED to RELOAD and "REFLECT" the matrix in an "unperfect"(or less perfect mind) way, thus making it possible for a computer generated world to be stable and going on. PiukNeo.

Yes so I can see maybe why he might be needed to "filter" everyone's perception of the illusion world. However, to reboot the system, why is he needed? Where does this Prime Program / Code come from? Do the machines make it or is it part of human nature? Why can't the machines insert it into another Human ala Smith uplink via phone. Why can't the machines settle with a code that will give them a relatively long time for a stable matrix, reboot every so often with that same code, and continue.

This all assumes that the Matrix is indeed flawed in its perfection. What if the flaws were all part of the perfect matrix.... and all this talk about anomilies and 1% is just that to control the humans. The perfect Matrix is the one that displays imperfections. Or it could just be one of those plots where at the very end of the book/film 'and then Neo woke up'.

Why the need for Neo to undergo an elaborate journey to do such a trivial task?

Reason: It makes a good plotline. It becomes boring if things die at the flick of a switch.

if someone has already said this then sorry
but it is gone midnight and i have to get up for school in a few hours
so i thought i would quickly post.

Zion can be real

"Most minds except the matrix if given a choice if it is only at a near
un-concious level"

all they have to do is convince the humans that it is real and they
will except it...

i mean logically smith sould not be able to inhabit the guy in the real world
it is totally impossible... were as (not to sound insane) the matrix is possible.
but also smith hints on

"Apperantly free......But were because were NOT free"
now is he saying this because the humans still have to fight or because
the machines control the real world?

if you watch the Animatrix it is possible that the architect is even lieing
to the machines if they come with the holes in the backs of their necks
of the middle controal thingy

but this is just getting deeper then my original point

it still is possible and more likely that Zion is fake.... even if it wasn't
created by the machines...

My dads theory is that at the end of revolutions Neo will take off a V.R.
Helmet and just sau "That was a good game" and it would have been a
huge online game.... some people play as agents others as rebels...
i think its a good theory with out alot of evience.... but if smith was
deleted or destroyed how did he come back?
multiple lives?

well theres mine and my dads theorys for you.....

Quote:

Heck, maybe the mwim doesn't have as wide a scope as what most people think. Maybe they did go to some physical Zion, and it was only at the very end of the movie did they actually go to a mwim. Maybe the Machines were trying to distract Neo while they were attacking Zion?

good theroy but
based upon the newest trailer the merroginvian (i dunno how to spell)
has him trapped between the matrix and zion (the orcale is telling trin.
she says zion not REAL WORLD (hint maybe?)) but my theroy is that
Merroginvian has somehow trapped Neo inside his own mind
and that Merrog. can go in and out of because som guys smashes neo
in the trailer into a wall!

PiukNeo wrote:

LAURA, HAVE YOU SEEN THE MATRIX 3 TRAILER? IT CLEARLY BOMBS YOUR ARGUMENTS ON NEO BEING "FOOLED" BY THE MACHINES ON MAKING HIM BELIEVE THAT HE HAS POWERS, UNLESS THE "FOOLING" GOES ON, THEN NEO STOPPING MORE SENTINELS LIKE SHOWN ON THE TRAILER IS MORE THAN OBVIOUS.

Ah, no, so my assumptions I guess come from ignornace and is just an educated guess from what i have seen.

PiukNeo wrote:

ALSO, A FRIEND OF MINE TOLD ME THAT HE SAW ANOTHER TRAILER WHERE NEO IS SHOWN FLYING IN THE "REAL WORLD".....JUST A FACT.... PIUKNEO.

"You can believe a man can fly?....

piukneo? what friend is this? i have seen all of the trailers. technically the do not disprove a matrix in a matrix theory but they do suggest it may
be in a diffrent scence.....

The Oracle Says "He Is Trapped In A World Between This One And The
Next"

Another Matrix Prehaps?

Also it appars that the Merroginvian has him trapped....or has he?
This other world could be Neos mind being hacked by the Merroginvian
because how can The One contain the prime program or code?
He has to go into the source for re-insertaion? Does this mean that
Neo and Smith are connected because Neo i just another program?
Wich was origanally desgined to lead the humans? then help destroy
zion and get the loop going again? so what if Neo is a program? but
with this brillliant ai that infact makes him 'human' wouldn't this mean
that Zion would have to be another matrix of sorts?
Because Smith wouldn't be able t ocome out of the Matrix and inhabit
that body..... even if the brothers tell you he basicly replaces all of
the electric pulses in that body it souldn't work because he wouldn't be
programed with the ability to move muscles and bone....
unless then that is were Neo and Smith gain their connection.......

i know lets just wait 4 days for the movie!

"I know let's just wait 4 days for the movie!"

Sounds like a plan to me.

But, even though it's probably been said before; my little bit on how Neo stopped the sentinels (which is the whole basis of the MiM theory, as we all know) is just this:

Seeing as he's already The One, he has incredible powers as it is; now when Smith went to make him into a smith-spawn, perhaps (and it would seem likely) he transferred some of his power over to Neo, thus giving them the "connection" and all that. So now, first of all he's never tried using his powers in the real world, nothing's to say that none of the other anomalies did either; therefore maybe all anomalies can use their powers in the real world, they just never tried to, because they were taught it didn't work; perhaps they needed to pass a certain level of power, and that's why "something's different", because Neo's power increased enough to push his power into the real world as well. I mean, it could just be that he could always use his powers in the real world once they were grown enough; he just hasn't had need for them before that, and his powers weren't ready to be used in the real world either, and even as he sensed they were ready to be used, they still weren't strong enough yet, that would be why he slipped into his coma and such. I don't know. That's my ideas, I prefer to stick with em, even if they're horribly wrong and I'm . I'm ready though, only got like 3 days and XX hours to go...

Didn't the W Bro's say that there wasn't a MiM? I mean, that would be an insanely huge practical joke to just lie blatantly and screw a ton of people's ideas up. I'm almost postive they've said at one point or another that there wasn't a MiM, someone reinforce me on that or tell me I'm wrong, I'd like to be sure.

neo can stop machines because they are powered by "batterys" cennected to the martix thus neo becomes part of the matrix

I HAD A HUGE MOTHER FU CKING EXPLAINATIN OF THIS BUT LITTLE DID I KNOW ACCIDENTALY PRESSING CTR-Z WOULD ERASE EVERYTHING! IM TOO LAZY AND PISSED OFF TO RE TYPE IT