»"To unbalance it." How?«

How does the Oracle unbalance the equation?
With what actions?

By introducing an anomaly which created reminder which created the One I guess.

Wasn't this Architect balancing the equation?

Architect tried to balance the unbalanced equation by bring back Smith in this version and some other way in other version.

Oracle:He was as inevitable as you.
(Oracle in original Revolution script)

The Oracle gave humans the option to choose.

The Architect created the One thing, etc.

14515 wrote:

Oracle:He was as inevitable as you. (Oracle in original Revolution script)

So, what? That doesn't prove that she designed Smith and/or both or anything!

Well yes.It was Architect's plan to creat the Integral Anomaly,but why did he do that?
So that he can gain control over the anomaly.
Why did that anomaly occure in the 1st place?
Because of the Oracle...isn't it?

May be knew that the Architect will do some thing like that,i.e., integrating all the anomalies in One may be didn't...but it worked!

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So, what? That doesn't prove that she designed Smith and/or both or anything!

What I am trying to say is,Smith was the result of the balancing of the equation.
The Oracle didn't design anything except the choice(may be she did,but that was the most important thing she did).The rest was all the consequence of that.Including the One and his opposite,zion,war etc..

th3 p4th wrote:

How does the Oracle unbalance the equation? With what actions?

After he died, the Oracle prophesied his return and his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix...end the war...bring freedom to our people....That is why there are those of us that have spent our entire lives searching the Matrix, looking for him.

Whereas the Architect tries to keep the Matrix/system stable, the Oracle's does bring about change. And with the Architect adapting it to the change, the Matrix/system does grow.

The prophecy is the Oracle's contribution to the stability of the Matrix, because...

I'm interested in one thing, Neo, the future. And believe me, I know, the only way to get there is together.

In the current condition, man and machine need the Matrix to survive, and the prophecy is the means to make sure it does.
However, whereas it is in the Architect's interest that the One reload the Matrix over and over again to keep up it's balance, the Oracle does unbalance the prophecy/system by helping the One to transcend what the Architect considers to be the end of the path:

Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
Oracle: No. You've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it (...) for what it's worth...you've made a believer out of me.

... resulting in change/growth -> Revolution.

Smith has been created by the Architect, based on the Oracle's findings (-> mother), to balance the Matrix. But he is used by the Oracle to unbalance the situation, when - growing in power as Neo's opposite (-> balance) - he becomes the deadly threat to both worlds, thus requiring balance on a new level.

tozy wrote:

Smith has been created by the Architect, based on the Oracle's findings (-> mother), to balance the Matrix. But he is used by the Oracle to unbalance the situation, when - growing in power as Neo's opposite (-> balance) - he becomes the deadly threat to both worlds, thus requiring balance on a new level.

Smith wasn't created (he is the byproduct of creating Neo)...first, he was an agent for the system as his name expresses. Agent Smith.

After being imploded by Neo, he was freed and like Neo felt the need to rebel. No longer an agent, he is now known as Smith. But, as the we all know, an action causes an equal and opposite reaction.

The creation of "Neo" was how the Matrix became unbalanced.

These concepts are expressed very well in the movie "Constantine".

Gina Rink wrote:

Smith wasn't created (he is the byproduct of creating Neo)...first, he was an agent for the system as his name expresses. Agent Smith.

Yep, and as such - Agent Smith - he had been created.

Gina Rink wrote:

After being imploded by Neo, he was freed and like Neo felt the need to rebel...

That was after his creation...

Gina Rink wrote:

The creation of "Neo" was how the Matrix became unbalanced.

As the Architect tells us, there was no balance at all until the Oracle understood choice as the problem, and it thus could be channeled in the One, Zion and the prophecy.

What did unbalance the balanced whole of Matrix and prophecy, was the introduction of love into this whole.

Excellent tozy!

tozy wrote:

Yep, and as such - Agent Smith - he had been created.

Smith (the moniker "agent" was in front of his name because that was his job) existed long before there was a Neo. A change in a attitude/persona does not a person make. It's only a change in moniker. For example, if you changed your avatar on this board, your name stays tozy. The trick is to know what the new avatar means. You're still tozy.

edit: The trick is to know who or what Neo is and why it's so important to the plot.

"You are not your job...you are not how much money you have in the bank...not the car you drive...not the contents of your wallet. You are not your fucking khakis. We are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world."

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As the Architect tells us, there was no balance at all until the Oracle understood choice as the problem, and it thus could be channeled in the One, Zion and the prophecy. What did unbalance the balanced whole of Matrix and prophecy, was the introduction of love into this whole.

Are you sure?

th3 p4th wrote:

Excellent tozy!

Thanks!

Gina Rink wrote:

the moniker "agent" was in front of his name because that was his job

... or purpose, defining him.

Gina Rink wrote:

Smith (...) existed long before there was a Neo.

I couldn't agree more. For that reason I don't understand why you are saying...

Gina Rink wrote:

he is the byproduct of creating Neo

Creating Neo?

Smith was created by the Architect as an agent of the system to balance the Matrix (fight the redpills etc.). And, eventually (and propabely after having wittnessed at least one of Neo's predeccessor's path) the opposition to the developing/growing powers of the new One accumulates in him, developing him into Neo's direct opposite and resulting in his being unplugged from the system

Gina Rink wrote:

A change in a attitude/persona does not a person make.

Eh?...

Gina Rink wrote:

It's only a change in moniker. For example, if you changed your avatar on this board, your name stays tozy. The trick is to know what the new avatar means. You're still tozy.

However, every experience I have made between uploading the avatars, has developed/changed who I am. I am still tozy, but I am not the same.

Gina Rink wrote:

Are you sure?

As always, this is not the truth, but merely my interpretation.

tozy wrote:

I couldn't agree more. For that reason I don't understand why you are saying...

Gina Rink wrote:

he is the byproduct of creating Neo

tozy wrote:

However, every experience I have made between uploading the avatars, has developed/changed who I am. I am still tozy, but I am not the same.

The entity named Tozy remains, though changed. The only thing "new" created is a "persona" not the entity or being itself (uh, I mean yourself, lol). Just like the Oracle. What is the difference between the Oracle in M1 and 2 and the Oracle in Rev.?

A change in purpose or direction doesn't change the vehicle or driver.

Enough of that.

Before Thomas Anderson was "Ze One, himself", what was he?

This is about roles and trying to fill them.

btw. I'm marking this thread. This promises to be enlightening again. Thx th3 p4th.

Gina Rink wrote:

Sure, agent smith is a program but he's not a program like the Oracle (he's more of a byproduct, than a creation) or Sati.

What is your definition of "byproduct" and "program" in that regard, then?

Gina Rink wrote:

He's a program much like Thomas acted like one

Did he?

intell wrote:

The entity named Tozy remains, though changed. The only thing "new" created is a "persona" not the entity or being itself (uh, I mean yourself, lol). Just like the Oracle. What is the difference between the Oracle in M1 and 2 and the Oracle in Rev.?

I'd rather say what is the difference between Thomas Anderson and Neo, the One, and Neo along the path of the One...?

intell wrote:

A change in purpose or direction doesn't change the vehicle or driver.

But a change in perception and understanding/knowledge does. It's not a change in direction (or persona), but growth.
To evolve...

intell wrote:

This is about roles and trying to fill them.

To me it is about aspects and trying to understand them...

tozy wrote:

Gina Rink wrote: Sure, agent smith is a program but he's not a program like the Oracle (he's more of a byproduct, than a creation) or Sati. What is your definition of "byproduct" and "program" in that regard, then? Gina Rink wrote: He's a program much like Thomas acted like one Did he? intell wrote: The entity named Tozy remains, though changed. The only thing "new" created is a "persona" not the entity or being itself (uh, I mean yourself, lol). Just like the Oracle. What is the difference between the Oracle in M1 and 2 and the Oracle in Rev.? I'd rather say what is the difference between Thomas Anderson and Neo, the One, and Neo along the path of the One...? intell wrote: A change in purpose or direction doesn't change the vehicle or driver. But a change in perception and understanding/knowledge does. It's not a change in direction (or persona), but growth. To evolve... intell wrote: This is about roles and trying to fill them. To me it is about aspects and trying to understand them...

Tell me more. For example:

Quote:

I'd rather say what is the difference between Thomas Anderson and Neo, the One, and Neo along the path of the One...?

Thomas Anderson becoming the One is...?
Ascending the Path of the One and walking the path of Neo means what?

Neo: So is this the same Oracle that made the prophecy?
Morpheus: Yes. She's very old. She's been with us since the beginning.

Neo: The beginning...?
Morpheus: Of the resistance.

Morpheus: And does the Commander have a plan for stopping 250,000 sentinels?
Niobe: A strategy is still being formulated.
Morpheus: I'm sure it is.

Smith: I'm looking for Neo…I have something for him

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy (Isaiah 54:16 KJV)

Bane: Oh God.
Smith: Smith will suffice.

The Oracle: Seems like every time we meet I've got nothing but bad news. I'm sorry about that, I surely am. But for what it's worth, you've made a believer out of me.

Link: Because of Morpheus, because of what he's told me. He said that this is it. That it will be over soon.

Smith: Yes, that's it, it'll be over soon.

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly…

Ghost: Then what are you?
SMITH: Me? I suppose you could say that I am the Alpha Of your Omega. I am the beginning Of your end.

Oracle: I see the end coming. I see the darkness spreading. I see death. And you are all that stands in his way.

Smith/Oracle: Is it over?

intell wrote:

Tell me more. For example: Quote: I'd rather say what is the difference between Thomas Anderson and Neo, the One, and Neo along the path of the One...? Thomas Anderson becoming the One is...?

An important step on the path towards Self-knowledge -> matrix-explained.com...

intell wrote:

Ascending the Path of the One and walking the path of Neo means what?

The path from delusion to (truth = know thyself).

From delusion lead me to truth
From darkness lead me to light
From death lead me to immortality. - Neodämmerung

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What is your definition of "byproduct" and "program" in that regard, then?

I gave you the definition of byproduct in the previous post. With your affinity to quote them, I'm hoping you'd tell me what a program is.

Quote:

Did he?

Yes.

Inevitability wrote:

Then believe Him!

Whom do you speak of?

I don't like to look at Smith as a program, but if you love Sci-Fi it's hard not to.

Both Smith and Neo are headed toward higher levels of existence. I think it's important to understand the hierarchy in this film. There is God (not the architect), Humanity, and AI. Human beings created artificial intelligence and we are like gods to the machine world. They cannot exist in a meaningful way without our presence. NOT because they need to use us like a flashlight uses a battery. They don't want, or need, our body heat to fuel their machine bodies. The machines want/need our SPIRITUAL energy to exist in a meaningful way (to have a PURPOSE). That's why the Matrix exists, to harvest spiritual energy from human beings. Without that energy, the machines would be like a calculator adding the same numbers together over and over perfectly. Their must be a human factor involved in their existence in order to unbalance the equation. The AI knows full well it cannot grow on it's own without humanity, or more specifically, the human spirit.

Now enter Agent Smith, a program from the machine world. Remember the pecking order: God > Human Beings > AI. Agent Smith chases Neo and company around for a while and finally catches and kills Neo. Neo is then resurrected by God (only God can do this), and Neo dives into Agent Smith and he explodes and Smith dies! Thrilling every time I see it.

The Agent Smith program is then resurrected by God, not the AI that governs program deletion. The new Smith program has something that no other AI has ever had, the HUMAN SPIRIT. Smith believes that Neo's spirit was copied and imprinted into his programming. Smith is now like a man, a new man, a very disoriented human being with AI level intelligence and no physical body (yet).

Neo is still only a human being, but he is different after being resurrected. Neo is more powerful in that he can change the world around him to a greater degree, but his actions are still governed by basic emotions like love. Neo has not yet jumped the gap between humanity and God. HOWEVER, Smith has indeed leaped right over the gap between AI and humanity! Not on his own of course, but through God's Devine will. It was God who resurrected Smith and Neo IMO.

Now Smith has to make some choices. What the hell does he want to do with his freedom and why? Smith quickly develops a deep hatred and obsession for Neo. Smith is no longer programmed to chase or attack Neo, HE NOW CHOOSES TO DO SO. It's his new purpose in life. Smith also decides that since he is now like a human being, he wants to destroy what he doesn't like (people/AI/Matrix), and create what he does like (himself). Smith prefers the emotion hate at the moment, while Neo prefers love. Which is stronger? It's a tie. Smith uses his new power and hate to try and destroy Neo. Neo counters with love and we have a stale mate. Neo flees, but he could have kept fighting to a draw.

Smith knows that Neo has a flesh body and he wants to destroy it, and also he wants his own body. Why? Human beings are the Gods of AI. When Smith copies himself over Bane, his SOUL passes through the phone and overtakes Banes soul. Smith is fairly disoriented in Banes body, but he gathers himself and continues to pursue his purpose. He tries to stab Neo and fails. He then confronts Neo and they fight it out. Neo's eyes are scorched and Smith believes Neo cannot see him. Neo can't see anything in the physical realm, but he can see Smith's soul. Killing Bane's body disperses Smith's soul.

Neo then goes to the machine city and can see everything. The city is glowing with a strange light that seems to flow through it. What is Neo seeing? He's seeing what the AI has been harvesting from the people trapped in the Matrix, their human spirit. It courses through the entire city and all the machines.

Neo confronts Smith for the final time, and begins fighting Smith because of his love for humanity. Smith's hatred is an equal match and they fight to a stand still. Finally Neo realizes that love is not the answer, but Devine will is supreme. The place where his will meets God's will. Neo connects with God Himself at this moment, Smith then touches Neo and tries to copy himself over Neo. Smith fails, and what's more, he has come in contact with God. Smith is consumed by Gods holy light, as is Neo BTW. God then resurrects Neo so that he might change the Matrix. Or you could say that God changes the Matrix and Neo is no more. The ending, as with the entire movie, is open for interpretation.