»Trailer disproves MiM theory!«

In the trailer, there is one seen where Neo sees Bane. Bane then says somethiing along the lines of "look beyond the flesh..." When Neo "looks beyond the flesh" what does he see? He does not see the code that he is able to see in the "real" matrix.

hmmmm...... does this trailer not support the MiM theory rather than disaprove it??!!

I have added the yellow fire face to the "Zion is fake" proof list.
I must have been dreaming not to add it before.

Guys, obviouslye Neo still has some kind of special powers in the "real world." Everyone admits that (atleast everyone who's seen the trailers).

This in relation to the MWM theory, the true question is not whether Neo has super powers, but what is the nature of his powers?

The fact that he does NOT see Bane/Smith in code, indicates that the nature of his powers is something other than the result of Neo's ability to "bend and break" the rules of some computer system.

That's why, I think you should remove the yellow face from the Zion is fake list, and put it in the Zion is real category. That's the only place it fits.

Peepers wrote:

The fact that he does NOT see Bane/Smith in code,

Uh? But he does see him in (fire) code.

knnknn wrote:

Peepers wrote: The fact that he does NOT see Bane/Smith in code, Uh? But he does see him in (fire) code.

I guess it's possible...but not likely. Remember in M1, when Neo is in the hallway, he still sees Smith in "green code." What would cause Smith's green code to turn into "maybe (but probably not) code" And the only other kind of code that we know for sure is code, Seraph's "gold code" still uses identifiable symbols. Nothing about Smith/Bane's appearance suggests code. Quite the opposite: The blurring/smearing affect and the emphasis on light is much more reministic of some kind of quasi-impresssionists view of Bane/Smith, suggesting some kind of special intuition is what allows Neo to see Bane as Smith. It's this intuition that would be inherent to Neo's humanity, not the machinistic code-seeing ability.

Thus, I think it's fair to say that the fire-face is not code and that the trailer disproves the MiM/MWM theory (or atleast casts more doubt upon it).

The fire face is certainly more "organic" than the "code" versions of individuals Neo is able to see while inside the Matrix.

My theory is this: Neo is not only "The One," he's much more of "The One" than the machines suspected (intended?). Due to the chaotic and adaptive nature of humankind, Neo is an evolutionary bi-product of humankind/machine tinkering.

I think this explains why he is able to exert control over the machines in the real world as well as display his powers inside the matrix.

A clue to this might be in the title of the third movie itself - Matrix: Revolutions, i.e. Evolutions without the "R"? Yes, yes, a nimble stretch is required to buy into this argument, but I thought it worth mentioning nonetheless.

mjolnir wrote:

I think this explains why he is able to exert control over the machines in the real world as well as display his powers inside the matrix. A clue to this might be in the title of the third movie itself - Matrix: Revolutions, i.e. Evolutions without the "R"? Yes, yes, a nimble stretch is required to buy into this argument, but I thought it worth mentioning nonetheless.

"nimble stretch"? Now that is an understatement.

About the organic thing: While I agree it doesn't look like code, how is fire organic, I'd say "elemental" is a better word, if it is a word.

Fire is certainly more organic, i.e. "natural" than machine code, wouldn't you agree?

My use of the term stems mostly from it's use in graphic design, where "organic" often means, simply, not machined or not precise, etc. And, in terms of the "fire face" I was referring to the actual rendering of the face, which is smooth and solid as opposed to being composed of machine language, rather than the nature of the "fire."

Did anyone stop to think that this is a trailer and the fire thing might not be in the Real World? The trailer is not necessaril chornologically correct remember, it isn't the movie, just a trailer.

The_Anomoly, your theory is dispatched rather quickly by the fact that Bane and Neo are shown in their "real world" guises, not their Matrix guises.

No you don't understand what I'm saying. I am saying that the Firey Smith might not have anything to do with the Neo seeing Bane thing, it might occur at a totally different part in the movie.

Actually, I quite easily understood what you said, I'm just saying I disagree with your assertion since it seems to be so blatantly chronological in the trailer.

I suppose it is indeed possible that it was simply a matter of creative editing, but then one would wonder why show those two bits together at all? It doesn't seem as if the Wachowskis have engaged in any such hijinks with the audience thus far, why start now?

Althought the fire "code," of Smith may play at a different time, it is inherent to the Zion World. We know this because we see Neo walking blindfolded wearing "Zion rags" in parts of the trailer.

notice that smith is the only thing seen in the fire code.. not the ship or anything surrounding him... thats becus the fire code is VIRUS code.( and serah is an independant programme. thusly.. to the system he is "almost" a virus.. thats why he has gold firey code ).. also .seeing as u cant see the walls of the ship in fire code.. ZION IS NOT A MATRIX ( yaya anti MWAM strikes again ).. sorry

the Oracle's guardian is shown in fire too..

and..

very often a trailor mixes up scenes.. you see them in a sequence and therefore your assuming the "look past the flesh" scene is the same as the scene of the "fire code". watch the trailor for M2, you'll see what i mean..

Erazman wrote:

the Oracle's guardian is shown in fire too.. and.. very often a trailor mixes up scenes.. you see them in a sequence and therefore your assuming the "look past the flesh" scene is the same as the scene of the "fire code". watch the trailor for M2, you'll see what i mean..

The Oracle's guardian (Seraph) is NOT shown in fire "code" (guys the firely appearacne reflects some non computer related power neo has an is therefore not CODE); it is show in gold/shiny code. And even there, you can still seee distinct characters.

Face it: The fire does not resemble any of the other code we've ever seen in any of the movies, and if it should resemble any code, it should resemble Smith's green code. But it doesn't!

What conclusion can we draw from this?

FIRE "CODE" IS NOT CODE! It's someting else. It is the result of some other power Neo has.

maybe neo is seeing a sort of 'aura' in zion and since Bane is not himself, his aura may reflect that of Smith

hence looking past flesh

esc wrote:

maybe neo is seeing a sort of 'aura' in zion and since Bane is not himself, his aura may reflect that of Smith hence looking past flesh

We seem to have had some miscommunication problems i this thread, but if I'm understanding you correctly (which I'm starting to think is a big IF) then you just said exactly what I've been trying to articulate for a very long time.

Quote:

We seem to have had some miscommunication problems i this thread, but if I'm understanding you correctly (which I'm starting to think is a big IF) then you just said exactly what I've been trying to articulate for a very long time.

indubitably so

Lots of people wrote:

Fire "Code"

And there-in lies the problem. A classic example of pre-conditioned debate.

The use of the two words together, anchors their association and provides a basis for the discussion. Everything else is then based on this.

Those for the "MWM" will therefore always fall back on it being "some kind of code", ignoring what they actually see.

Those against the "MWM" will argue it's not "Code", centering the argument firmly on that word again, and once again ignoring what they see.

I wonder if this argument (sorry discussion) would have been different if the person who first described this image, had chosen not to call it "Gold Code" or "Fire Code" but had gone for something more traditional like "Aura".

Then you would have been able to include "Golden Aura" in the discussion which would have lead to a much more interesting question.

marl64 wrote:

I wonder if this argument (sorry discussion) would have been different if the person who first described this image, had chosen not to call it "Gold Code" or "Fire Code" but had gone for something more traditional like "Aura".

Yeah, I think I may have been the one to have started calling it "Code." Sorry about that.

Just because Bane tells Neo to look through the flesh doesnt mean he sees thats aura of Smith. I think the aura takes place in a different part of the movie, thus having nothing to do with Zion.

Who knows, maybe Smith kills Seraph in the matrix, and that aura is shown to show that Smith now has his power.(whatever that may be)


The Smith and Seraph auras dont look alike but they sure do look simular don't they?

OK then. We're agreed. The official word describing Smith's firery appearance is "AURA" (capitalization not necessary. I DECLARE it thus.





How was that? You don't think it was meglomaniacal do you?

Ok, hows this: now we call it "aura."

SpyHunter wrote:

Just because Bane tells Neo to look through the flesh doesnt mean he sees thats aura of Smith. I think the aura takes place in a different part of the movie, thus having nothing to do with Zion.

But we're agreed it has everything to do with smith, Right?

"I'm not such a bad guy, once you get to know me."

Peepers wrote:

Ok, hows this: now we call it "aura."

Great, now throw it into google with the word "Golden" and see where it gets you.

You could even add "Buddhism" if you like.

Then apply the results to Agent Smith and see how many theories survive the result.