»BIG Hint on why MwM would be valid !«

I just saw Revolutions the 3rd time , and I noticed something VERY INTERESTING :

After Neo dies , and the squids fly away , Morpheus says something (a bit mind blowingly insignificant apparently) :

" IS IT REAL...? "

Ofcourse normaly , this question would have meaning only in the contex of the previous statements made by him : "..I imagined this moment for so long.."etc . And the majority(includeing myself) would automaticaly think this way in a heart beat. BUT , after all the browsing and brainstorming on this forum , I can't help but wonder :

WHAT IF THE BROTHERS MEANT TO HIDE THIS PROOF IN THIS QUESTION (so cleverly crouched behind a context like that)?

(based on the tipical fact that they don't want to give it all on a silver platter , but to make us think again , and ofcourse , think free)

I don't think so.

Morpheus believed in the One, the Prophecy, etc in the 1st Matrix but then in Reloaded he learns that everything was a big lie. So in the end of Revolutions even he, isn't sure if what he's experiencing is real. [In contrast to the original Matrix when he was in the Construct program and was teaching Neo what is real]

At least that's what I believe

Mmmh...I'm still circumspect about this...

Crimson,

Check out this post I wrote after seeing Revolutions for like the 25th time. Some might not agree with all of it's points, but I think you will find it helpful

Ok ...let's see wha' cha got...
I am at least curious judgeing by the fact that its the 25th time..

i do agree with some of spinak's ideals...(weird)...but i'm still a MwM believer...

i'm not gonna lie spinak, i didn't read it all, so answer me this: couldn't be possible that Zion is the first one matrix and that the 2nd matrix is the forced one

just think about this...zion is "divine" and perfect in the aspect that everyone thinks that since they are unplugged, and the world they live in i so shitty, that it couldn't possibly be a MwM, but if the machines did, maybe that where the purpose of the oracle came in, and she feels bad to the point where she helps those who she has imprisoned and not told them yet...

i leave u on this, "there are forms of energy we are willing to take" <- this could very well mean shutting down the 2nd one (the matrix) and running on the first one vis a vis "the real world"

Tsukasa wrote:

i'm not gonna lie spinak, i didn't read it all, so answer me this: couldn't be possible that Zion is the first one matrix and that the 2nd matrix is the forced one

Read the entire thread. My explanation is there.

k...i read it, and my question wasn't answered...please answer my question...

Tsukasa wrote:

k...i read it, and my question wasn't answered...please answer my question...

No, it doesn't directly answer your question. But, some theory's that I state would describe why it would not be possible.


I don't understand how people see that Zion is an environment that could even possibly be understood by machines


For example:

The entire Matrix environment throughout the movies is obviously written by a machine. The symmetry is extremely prominent. It's a digital world made from 1's and 0's. The same way a CD's information doesn't have curved lines....it's a series of straight lines.


On the complete opposite:

Zion is an environment of texture and shapes that a machine could never understand. Like an analog tape, it has waves of information....something that digital could never duplicate. Take a good look at the Zion scenes....the caves, rocks, various shapes, etc.... The Wachoski's brilliantly and very intentionally created the Zion set this way to contrast the digital world of the Matrix program created by the machines.


This is just one small example that supports the fact that Zion was NOT another computer generated program. Although, it was in fact, built by and in complete control of, by the machines....it was still an actual place on earth.

your forgeting about the oracle, her entire purpose was to understand how humans think, so what isn't to say she reported that the humans we're agreeing with A MwM because they were waking up into the same thing, and instead made an environment so miserable yet live-able, the the humans would be convinced that there is no way in hell that it's a matrix...

Here is an interview with Michael Turner. He is the assistant art director:

_____________________________

MICHAEL: It is heavily in the plot – like a subplot – that Zion was built by the machines. The people living in it think they built it themselves, or they’re not really sure. In actuality it had already been there, and there have been six lots of people living in it, so it’s probably a thousand years old. The thing is that the machines built it, so we went to the Industrial Revolution in the 1890s, when suddenly there was this explosion of mass-produced steel things. If you look at things like the Crystal Palace [from the 1851 Great Exhibition in London], and some of the major things built at that time, they had an element that they reproduced that ends up being quite inhuman; it’s out of scale slightly, and quite uncomfortable. The Crystal Palace is what we used a lot for reference – it’s huge as is the Zion landing area for the hovercraft.

The city is underneath the landing area, and goes down for eight hundred meters, which I worked a bit on as well – it’s sort of a mass production of units, and that kind of dehumanizes it. All the balustrades come in components, so there’s a kilometer of balustrades and there is no relief. All the edges are mass produced, so it looks quite weird, but you can’t quite put your finger on it why it’s so cold. It’s actually very cold and inhuman, and everything repeats. It’s the biggest clue to it having been inhabited before – everyone has died five times – I think this is the sixth lot of people living in Zion.

There are also a lot of clues in it, in that it looks way older than it could possibly be realistically. There are hundreds and hundreds of years of rust in it and it’s really decrepit. One clue, when you get down to the Residents Area, is that it has rock flowing over the fronts of the residences, and that takes hundreds of years to happen. But no one in Zion, I think, gets that they’re not the first ones there. They all feel like they’ve been freed from the machines, but in fact the machines have known all along that they’ve been freed and they’re just in another machine environment.

The other subtext then is that there was never any time that they weren’t actually free. The scene in the first film about Morpheus telling Neo that there was a time when we were free and there was a war, was actually a machine construct as well. So every memory they’ve ever had about being free is not true. It’s just something the machines have put in, and the machines have known all the time; it’s all about what reality actually is.

_____________________________________________________________


With this in mind, go back and read my other thread on Zion and it will all make sense. Their needs to be an actual real world in order for the story the W's are trying to tell us to make any sense.


Free your mind

ouch u had me until the last line, ur telling me to believe that guys word, and then u tell me to free my mind...that dude could just be fucking with u...u free your mind

Tsukasa wrote:

ouch u had me until the last line, ur telling me to believe that guys word, and then u tell me to free my mind...that dude could just be fucking with u...u free your mind

I am not telling you to believe anything. You have to make up your own damn mind.


Here is the link to the Matrix/Warner Brothers website with the interview

Quote:

" IS IT REAL...? "

Perhaps someone in Zion should have said at the end, "Holo-deck off!"

Crimson wrote:

" IS IT REAL...? "

What is real?
The connection...

I dont believe in the matrix within a matrix myself..

Because reality has to exist somewhere, And where else but the real world..
The matrix is very clever how it covers all questions relating to what is real and what is what..

As the Devil and Aliens are all outside of the matrix peeping in with mind control and causing man much grief within this world they have constructed..
Outside of this world lies the truth and nothing but the truth to people who are searching for the meaning...WHAT IS THE MATRIX..

The matrix is either a world much like this one, It has to have answers. The matrix is similar to the bible matrix where events have been forecast with a secret message...

Notice how the resistence watch the matrix code on tv from outside of the matrix...
Cypher knows the matrix exists, he can even understand it....

So there must be answers.. But all the harder to understand code must be only understood by a higher power...

The person who understands the higher matrix code is the oracle..

As we may know an oracle machine is a machine which can solve complex problems in a single step.. An oracle is also very wise when it comes to imformation...

The oracle was named the oracle for this very purpose...
Just the same as morpheus was named morpheus because he was THE GOD OF DREAMS... He wasnt the dreamer as most people think....He knew that neo was the one...

To think that morpheus had a dream and then lost it is not right...
Why go as far as to think that there is no end to matrix's
When its simple....REAL WORLD...NOT REAL WORLD..

virtual reality can only happen in reality...The matrix world is artificial, So man must have been around in the beginning...

The gold code is just a silly trick which has been put on you..

Spinak wrote:

whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com...

Nice!

Crimson wrote:

I just saw Revolutions the 3rd time , and I noticed something VERY INTERESTING : After Neo dies , and the squids fly away , Morpheus says something (a bit mind blowingly insignificant apparently) : " IS IT REAL...? " Ofcourse normaly , this question would have meaning only in the contex of the previous statements made by him : "..I imagined this moment for so long.."etc . And the majority(includeing myself) would automaticaly think this way in a heart beat. BUT , after all the browsing and brainstorming on this forum , I can't help but wonder : WHAT IF THE BROTHERS MEANT TO HIDE THIS PROOF IN THIS QUESTION (so cleverly crouched behind a context like that)? (based on the tipical fact that they don't want to give it all on a silver platter , but to make us think again , and ofcourse , think free)

Yes.

And when Neo gave his "congratulations" to Smith, he was being genuine.