»Trying to become unplugged....«

th3 p4th wrote:

I name you poster of the day for the second time! WOW

I forgot to say it but I really mean it:

Thanks!

Also--

th3 p4th wrote:

But I've seen the Mothman Prophecies and it's one of my favourite films.

I love that film. It's one of the few scarey movies that really scares me. And it fits this thread well, doesn't it? "Wake up #36?" Wake up, to what from what? In the Matrix-verse waking up and unplugging are pretty darned related. In the Mothman verse, you're left to wonder what exactly waking up is.

CaptPostMod wrote:

I love that film. It's one of the few scarey movies that really scares me.

It gets me every time! I would like to read the book too. (en.wikipedia.org...)

But as I said before the real revelation for me was Memento.
After it's end I told myself: well, it looks like it's all about choice again.

EDIT

Scroll down and read the original story from the "Memento Mori" book. imsdb.com...
Capt you are a writer, so you should read it.

Evolusionary wrote:

Art does not have a "point". It just is.

All Good and Great artist's art have a point.

All great
Paintings
Music
Films
art in general Have a Point, a Reason, a Meaning

Bad artist make art with no purpose

Art is NOT just is.

I thought that Pulp Fiction was just Stupid Violence but it was not

th3 p4th wrote:

I am an agent of the Forums designed by KNN Architect to kill all these Anomalies in the Forums. If you don't like it go unplug yourselfs and don't post here again. Yep, I give you that choice. Because by posting irrevelant (spelling?) to the Matrix messages you cause more and more trouble. Other people see it and start doing the same. I have two options. #1 To delete the threads and get rid of them. #2 To bug them (lock them) and keep an eye on you.

might be just me but, if i were to get unplugged, this is the first place i would post...i need to bring Kozar, T_F_O and a few others with me

DaVinci wrote:

another movie was Pulp Fiction I thought that it was a stupid violent movie but after I saw the religious message then I thought that it was a very cleaver movie

the divine intervention...i didn't really see it till the 2nd time around i saw it...

Evolusionary wrote:

intell wrote: Gina Rink wrote: The problem isn't whether or not you should use your brain because in both postulates the idea is true...the question what you decide to do with your brain...if you decide at all. Indeed, "trying to become unplugged" is going to have to involve your thinking processes and how you use them. My question is, is there any real thinking going on or is someone just using words as prose and pretending there is a point to it.

My question is, is there any real thinking going on or is someone reading words and not getting the point. What I just said above wasn't vague, I'm sure others understood. So can you.

Evolusionary wrote:

CaptPostMod wrote: If your goal is to create your own art ..., then you can by all means say "Go figure it out yourself" Art does not have a "point". It just is. And thus it is in your hands how it can be interpretated. You need no guidance other than to find the general boundaries, then you can decide if you agree with the artist or not. Saying "here is my take on The Matrix" is SUPPOSED to have a point. Alas, too many abuse those opportunities to go on transcendental rants that have nothing to do with the trilogy and only have to do with adding detritus to the atmosphere. Once again Capt has beaten me to the punch... CaptPostMod wrote: ...views not centered in the films being offered up as critique of the films and not presented for what they are, self held beliefs illustrated with use of images/scenes from the films. It is not, and never has been, incumbent on the reader of the post to decipher what the poster means. These individuals can quote entire blocks on eastern religious texts (or should I say they are more able to plagerize books and websites that lightly touch on these religions) but once you ask them "What in the world does that have to do with the Matrix"?...that,my friends, is the point where the rubber meets the road. Their next answer is always that they have a point, but it's so "grand" they cannot articulate it. In other words, you caught them in the middle of their non-point and they choked. As most of you have surmised by now, I am a hardliner. (the Taliban wing of the Matrix, if you will ) But I, and those like me, are that way because if I make a post I am prepared, before I even post, to offer follow up clarification of the post. It doesn't matter to me if it is well received or not. That is not the point. The point is that I have a point! If someone reads it and has a question I can offer up further answer upon it. If they agree with me then they now have another view that they had not considered before. That's "progress". If they disagree with me then perhaps I will gain another view that I had not considered or it will help them bolster their own position. Either way...That's "progress". Progress cannot be made groping around in the dark fumbling for answers. It has weakened the forum and only weakens the concept of the Matrix. It doesn't make you look smarter. It only makes you look hungry for attention at the expense of a great concept---The Matrix. It doesn't aid in progress. It is the chief obstacle to progress. Intell is quite correct. There are "sides". Those with points...and those without points looking for attention. It's not hard to figure out which is which. Just follow the "I can't tell you, you have to find it on your own."

Evolusionary, when you see a garbled message, you can either assume it is garbled because it is not a message or you can assume maybe you are not the intended recipient. When you find out the second is closer to the truth, then it is up to you to find out, who it is for, what it is, and why you didn't understand it before. You might be shocked.

The fact is that there is nothing you just said that I haven't read from some critic of the very film you so admire. Why do you suppose that you sound more like them?

Now to address a few others:

Edit:
After all, "It is not encumbent on" you to decipher or even comment on a post, either.

CaptPostMod wrote:

Funny to think about it, but we can apply this forum breakdown to the Matrix Trilogy! So far, we are entering the end of the second version (it seems). Once, long ago, this happened before... It all comes down to choice. We have the choice of what we post on and how we post. That choice is inherint to the system of the forum. Most posters will, initially, post about the film. But perhaps 1% will post about anything under the sun and almost completely ignore the films. While this percentage represents a minority, it begins to escalate, thereby creating a sea of anamolous posts which threaten the integrity of the forum itself. This requires an escape hatch. In-My-Opinion.org was designed to allow that escalating group who chose to post, but not about the Matrix, a place to speak and experience "freedom." They did so, and the Matrix was almost entirely rebooted (good-bye fatpie, allone, etc.; hello Capt, hexeditor, etc.) A new generation of Matrix-Explained residents emerged. But as the films go, so goes the forum. The anamolous posts, overtime, begin to rise again. Escalating to the point where we are at now, where the Matrix Explained forum seems much more about In-Our-Opinions then the Matrix films... So, even in a simple social model like the forum, it seems the social model the Wachowskis expressed in the rebooting Matrixes applies.

"Everything that has a beginning has an end."
The end of the cycles has come, though.
The integral anomaly does not get recycled this time.
The time has come for Revolutions.

But in the Architect's chamber,

The situation is that some posters are older and/or have more exposure to the things the movie emphasizes. Then you have those who are no more than about 2 years out of school, if they are out.

People don't meet other people and just start breaking everything down for them. The Wachowski's didn't do it either. I bet that, if they came out and did that, this forum would lose 90% of the posters in a week. People would not do the research it takes to get on the same page as the W's so they would either accept what they hear and move on or disagree and still move on. Time will yet tell if the W's accomplish their goal anyhow.

Some have argued whether I've been on topic with the films. I challenge, that with every recent post I've been more in line with the films than some of the ones making the claim. For instance, some thread can go through several pages of long-winded, multi-argumented discussion of a character's personality and never explain The Matrix in the slightest bit. But it's the "normal" way of the forum and if it includes many details, however flawed the reasoning, it is better than being shown where to look for real answers, isn't it?

It helps when one reads the entire thread.

Obviously Intell you took personally a post that in no way was aimed toward you. There are other individuals it would apply to but I have never taken issue with people. I ony take issue with what they say. For that reason I do not directly criticize others. I just criticize thoughts (or what loosely passes for such).

Also your advice to not comment on posts would have been good advice....but since you commented on mine, when you could have chosen not to, it appers to have not have been.

I was actually commending you on your position that indeed there is a certain balkanization that takes place in these forums. I,for one, think that it is a good thing. My post was congratulatory of you for articulating it in a way that I hadn't up to this point. Any notion you have that it applies to you beyond that is erroneous.

However it does apply to anyone more concerned with self-grandeur rather than making a cogent point. I have laid down the definition. The guilty know who they are. In this court you convict yourself.

My post was about people talking much and saying nothing. Has the guilty dog barked first?

...trying to become unplugged?

I see that this current discussion on this thread is indeed showing us how it is more beneficial to "teach a man to fish"

Can't we all just let this one die with a simple quote from the legendary Morpheus? "I can only show you the door, you're The One who has to walk through it."

What I say is simple. Don't start a new thread and talk about 7/7, or freeing your mind to something new or don't judge someone because you don't understand him, or....

We have enough threads already. Certain non-matrix themes have polluted all the new topics. We can't really discuss anything without starting to talk about these! I can't stop you, I only ask you to post to certain threads about these themes. And this thread is one of them.

Enjoy it!

I was editing that post that you responded to before you posted but, ah..too late, so I'm moving my supplemental thoughts over here.

Let's set the record straight about attention-seeking, though.
If I don't spoon feed you answers, you can't thank me. If you can't thank me, then what kind of positive feed-back can I get? Nothing. If you cross-reference what I do provide, you find out more, if you do that, you might see the movies from a clearer perspective. All this benefits you. I can't see how I benefit at all in that scenario.

On the other hand, if I write well argued, neatly outlined, technically advanced BS, and you eat it up, and you go around saying, "whoa, intell is deeeep", then I get attention and followers. So one could argue that the attention-seekers can be identified by posts that conform to that description. Yes?

Quote:

but since you commented on mine, when you could have chosen not to, it appers to have not have been.

It wasn't advice on what not to do, it was a statement of not having to feel obliged to do so. As for guilty dogs, it is not whether I was intended by what was said. It is that I don't agree with what was said, regardless of who it was about.

Quote:

it does apply to anyone more concerned with self-grandeur rather than making a cogent point. I have laid down the definition.

That implies that people who make cogent points are not concerned with self-grandeur. Surely, you don't believe this is always true. I don't even see that being the case in this forum. It also portrays everyone not breaking their posts down so that a five year old can read it, while watching cartoons, and playing Nintendo is trying to feign profundity. Once again, surely this is not what you really intend, is it?

DaVinci wrote:

Evolusionary wrote: Art does not have a "point". It just is. All Good and Great artist's art have a point.

You nailed it. "Great" art has a point. Art, in general, makes you feel something, but great art makes you feel and think. If the art made you feel something and yet didn't lead you to a concrete conclusion then it was not great art. It was just dollar store art.

When a person says they have a point to make and then cannot articulate that point it isn't because the reader "didn't understand". It is because the person who claimed they had a point was engaging in false advertising. They are the ones who don't understand. Pressing them for clarity simply expssed their lack of understanding.

There is a reason that people who are non-Matrix fans have difficulty seeing what it is Matrix fans like about the trilogy. And people who use spiritual rhetoric not intended to help people understand the trilogy are probably the biggest problem. When you have people who claim to be Matrix afficianados and then they cast more dispersions, muck, distortions, and vagaries upon an already complex story it makes it even harder for those who had difficulty with the concept to apreciate it and I want them to properly appreciate it. These people can see many symbols, and see a lot of activity, and know that there are underlying themes but they do not see how it is all related or drawn together.

How much greater would the Matrix be if the legions of people who claim to admire this work of art so much would be more like Mobil_Ave and Knn (and Th3 P4th though he'll probably never admit it) and demand (or relate) the concrete truths about the trilogy rather than engage in self-promoting showboating that only further muddies the waters.

Quote:

Smith: That is what this is all about. Evolution.

th3 p4th wrote:

Certain non-matrix themes have polluted all the new topics.

Altering your perception, freeing your mind, paying attention to how you look at things, "what is real?" are non-matrix themes? What site is this, anyway? Lol. I see your point.

Kozar wrote:

a simple quote from the legendary Morpheus? "I can only show you the door, you're The One who has to walk through it."

And that, my fellow posters, is how you start to unplug (someone).

Polluted

Quote:

great art makes you feel and think. If the art made you feel something and yet didn't lead you to a concrete conclusion then it was not great art.

That is really a contradiction.

Art that leads you to any conclusion doesn't not want you to think. It merely wants you to hear, to notice, to accept with or without thinking. What makes art "great" is not for me to judge at this time.

fear. emotional reactions almost always deaden the ability to think logically. some guy says, MORPHEUS TRICKED US. without ever considering that in the movie, Morpheus admits that pulling older people out has caused problems in the past. that the problem was so bad that they had to create a rule against it.

Instead of saying, MORPHEUS tricked us..which takes no thinking and leaves nothing to discuss because Morpheus admits there is a problem. This is pollution.

A real discussion from that thread had to do with the fact that Cypher was so pissed. Ever meet someone who's already pissed at you when you meet them? Here have a cup of engine cleaner...yeah, drink it down? There's got to be something there.

Morpheus' job was to find THE ONE. Morpheus freed Cypher. Then, it is safe to assume that Morpheus believed Cypher was THE ONE. Notice how Morpheus apologizes for the rough ride because when an older mind is freed, it generally can't handle the change. Everyone is calm about the situation except Cypher. Are all these coincidences? Maybe, but it sure does explain Cypher's behaviour. Imagine going from a top-notch computer programmer in the matrix to a saviour in the real world to a nobody in the real world. Can we say, pissed off?

So did Morpheus deceive Cypher or Neo? Perhaps, but on the other hand, the Oracle basically says, this guy is a zealot. And, what do zealots do? Get everyone to believe in their cause...or at least, they try. There's no reasoning with zealots and that lack of reasoning is why they are easily deceived and convincing. If you agree with this, then you know...Morpheus didn't trick us. However, we don't call that pollution, right?

It's was his inability to stop himself that got him killed.

Now, is this vague? Have I done anything different here from 7/7? Nope, same technique.