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»Zion is an illusion«

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[before Revolutions] Matrix-within-Matrix: Is Zion a just another Matrix? [closed]

 

Guest

Zion is an illusion  

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Guest

Zion is (and always has been) an illusion...
Its simply a bunch of onion skins, one peeling back to reveal another, and so forth.

This is explained by the oracle(i htink it was) where "~99% of people found the matrix to be an acceptable reality" or words to that effect are uttered.
Thats a big enough clue to point out that the remaining %1 'feel' that something is not right -> matrix 1 "it consumes you, you need to know the answer... you know the question, don't you" "what is the matrix?"
So they escape to Zion, which is just a big sham, and think they are free - you mention this.

Anyway, there's a good change that the world which Neo returns to is a false Zion, but that does not mean that the 'real' zion is not another part of the matrix. He can 'feel' something is different - implying that he could 'feel' zion though was unaware of it (like breathing in a room then going outside, then coming back in to realise it smells horrible in the room)
It seems a simple matter to copy all of the matrix (if it includes zion) and transfer one to the other.

Also, there's a lot of use of the number 3 - 3 agents in matrix one, 3 'upgrades', etc etc.
This would be attributable to the idea of multiple redundancy, a common practise - if one thing goes wrong, you have a backup, if that goes wrong you havbe a backup's backup. The chances of all three going kaput at the same time are tiny.

That's why there are typically 3 agents. Why not create 3 (or more) matrix's slotted side by side, and just switch stuff around on the movie watcher.

I like your site too Smile

chris_s

Zion is real  

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I don't like the idea of a Matrix within a Matrix theory for several reasons. First of all I believe the story being taken in a religious context, is a story about hope and faith and nihilism and so the awakening is a real one and the fight is between the real world and the matrix. Second, the first thing anyone should do when awakening from the matrix is question that the world they are living in now is a fake one.

It would seem automatic to question the reality of the second world regardless of how real it feels. That is problematic itself though as it does seem to be something expressed by all those who escaped the matrix that it simply didnt feel real. They all noticed that the matrix did not feel real and they couldnt explain it. In fact, they hint that everybody gets that feeling but its only those that investigate it that are able to be freed from the matrix. If this is the case, the second matrix, as proposed, should bring with it the same feeling of a dream like state and unease about the reality of that existence. Lastly, the spoon didnt appear to be bent. It was a crude spoon no doubt, and appeared to be made by pounding metal but I would imagine that perhaps all zion spoons are crude like that. If the spoon were a reminder of a fake world, it should have been bent but it wasnt so it stands more of a reminder that Neo now exists in a world with a real spoon.

As far as an explanation of how Neo was able to do what he did at the end of the movie, I can offer a theory that might work. The backdoors are important and you can get lost in the matrix because of them. Where you come out is mysterious and not even Neo understands them. Perhaps by going out the door to the left Neo left through a back door into a subprogram of the matrix in which he thinks he can get in and out of the matrix but he cannot. He is trapped in the matrix (but the REAL Zion is not another matrix). What he realizes when he 'leaves' the matrix and feels the sentinels is that he hasnt left the matrix and he still has the same feelings he does when in the matrix. It is not a new power he has acquired but merely an old one realized in a new way. The revolutions movie may happen around Neo being stuck in the matrix and having to fight his way out again in order to truly save Zion.

You also mentioned that philosophical riddles have been answered by computers/programming only. This seems to be a very weak basis to say that the explanation of Neo's power must also come in that way. The third movie, as has been suggested, is new territory for the existence of the matrix which is where I think the name comes from (Revolutions). Up until this point we can almost imagine other 'Ones' doing exactly what Neo has done but something has changed. Neo took the other door and ventured into new territory which will inevitably lead to the death of the matrix. We do not need to assume then that everything is now controlled by computers as it has been in 1 and 2.

nickwall

The programming of Zion is infected by agents  

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At the end of reloaded Neo mentions "something is different, I can feel them" and stops the sentinels. The programming environment itself is infected by the pressence of the agents as they require the necessity to "become" any of the slaves plugged into the matrix in order to police it. They have the proggramed ability to detect changes or anomalies. This proggramming is part of the reason that the one or other programs have the abilities they have in the matrix. Zion was created as a safety net for people who can sense this programming. The Oracle was created to guide people into the safety net. The programming used to create Zion was made with more rules and less exeptions (agents) ETC. so as to enable a more real, harder to see through, environment for those who have escaped from matrix one. When agent Smith enters the 2nd Matrix through bane, he has inserted programming from the first matrix thus destabilising the 2nd matrix. This is why Neo can sense the sentinels at the end of Reloaded. This will guide neo to the truth (Whatever that maybe) as we have really been given no clue as to the state of reality.

I guess i'm asking if any other evidence exists to support the fact that Agent Smith is the reason neo has a changed perception at the end of reloaded.

Guest

Daydream  

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...The Matrix and everyone in it, including man and machine, is the daydream of an autistic child playing with a snow globe...

Guest

Cybernetics sockets  

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It's interesting that people have explored the idea that Zion could be another simulation... perhaps at the end of the third film, Neo comes to the conclusion that reality is what you make it. That he chooses to accept life "as it is", fulfilling his role as the Anomaly and allowing the people of the Matrix to live out their lives in happy, unknowing slavery.

Of course, this is just a theory. It's interesting to note a fistful of obvious moments in Zion when Neo is entirely without plugs- even the one in the back of his head (which is usually easy to see, even under his hair). Continiuty errors, or subtle hints? Hmm...

An alternate theory for Neo's Sentinel-bashing is that his cybernetic "sockets" and the connection into his brain have been reprogrammed somehow as a result of his trip to the Architect. This would certainly be interesting- if Neo were connected to "real world" Machine hardware, and could "feel" it and interfere with it as we have seen so far. It would certainly provide a way for him to free the people from the Matrix itself, but as noted above, you've gotta wonder where they would go.

spoon

This forum isn't real  

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I believe that there isnt even a film called the Matrix, because it isnt REAL. Nor is anything and everything. This e-mail isnt even REAL. You havent recieved it because I havent even sent it, have I? I Believe that "the Matrix" is a guide to an entirely different question.... Why?.....well the answer to that question or the question to that answer is Why Not?....

lime_green_and_tangerine

Zion could be designed by the oracle  

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Forgive me if you've pointed this out already but could Zion be something designed by the Oracle to give an explanation for Neo's powers (the remainder of the Matrix equation) thus Zion is a part of The Matrix which the Oracle wishes to move the humans into (as opposed to them waking up in a new world one day). However the Architect believes in destroying this other world to get rid of Neo and all he's moved into it. It would also appear that she is the "Mother" but for some reason the Architect no longer agrees with her. This would explain the Oracle's need to run from Agent Smith, the unexplained loyalty from Seraph (he was a program designed to protect this important one). The Oracle as a program also shows that she is a catalyst to aid in the transgression of people from one Matrix world to the new one.

Makes sense to me.... I think :S

d-bearhug-nc

Zion Is Real  

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I'm probably going to start sounding like a broken record. But, everything is real. But, they are all pathways to the truth which cannot be understood by those who have not been awakened. The programs are trying to maintain order. But, for evolution to happen, there must be conflict. And, those who are mighty will eventually fall.

The gut-wrenching reality is that ecologically, the world on the surface of
the planet is toast. How would destroying the Matrix and freeing all those people accomplish anything but death and destruction. Sure, Zion could sustain 250,000 individuals. But, it's one thing to have billions of people in convenient little cocoons who don't consume anything beyond the energy for basic metabolism. But, to release all of those consumers into the world would be madness, not to mention the huge need for physical therapy services (if they wanted to be unplugged at all).

Neo will have to make the difficult decision that being plugged into the Matrix is the only viable option until the planet can be transformed into a sustainable ecology. Or, man and machine will merge. We may be going into a place where our bodies become useless, and we only live in a virtual sense.

yakimoro_saai

It is not possible how it could have been destroyed 5 times  

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Zion could be very well in a Matrix. Read this:

In one page, it is infered that zion is distroyed for the sixth time when the Architect says "..human denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it"
As it is known, this statement follows after Neo's (TV Neos') denial of zion being destroyed. If read correctly, what THE DIALUOGE means is that he (Archtect) has destroyed human denial for the sixth time, not Zion.

It seems to me that this misunderstanding was deliberately inserted to increase the ambiguity of the context (by the Wachowski Brothers), and believe that the brothers MEANT for general people to have this misconception.

Besides it serves absolutely no logic to think that zion has been distroyed for the sixth time.
If that was the case,
-why cannnot the machines navigate throught earth the same way as before?
-Furthermore, if zion has been distroyed and recreated five times, how is is possible for the human population to recreat such a mege (squared) city with sky high architectures (ie. when morpheus watches the night lights of zion turned off)

Shayne

Re: Zion Is Real  

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d-bearhug-nc wrote:



The gut-wrenching reality is that ecologically, the world on the surface of
the planet is toast. How would destroying the Matrix and freeing all those people accomplish anything but death and destruction. Sure, Zion could sustain 250,000 individuals. But, it's one thing to have billions of people in convenient little cocoons who don't consume anything beyond the energy for basic metabolism. But, to release all of those consumers into the world would be madness, not to mention the huge need for physical therapy services (if they wanted to be unplugged at all).

Neo will have to make the difficult decision that being plugged into the Matrix is the only viable option until the planet can be transformed into a sustainable ecology.


This is interesting because, for Revolutions to have anything like a hollywood happy ending, where everyone is freed, then the "real world" we have seen MUST be a matrix, and the true real world must be capable of supporting life for billions of folks outside the pods. Even if there is plenty of food, water, air, energy, and functioning tools to provide for people's needs, there is still going to be anarachy for a while until people find new roles and form communities.

Perhaps the true real world isn't as bad off as the "real world" we have seen, and only some of humanity is locked in the matrix, so that a other humans don't have to compete with them for scarce resources, or have to put up with political dissidents or whatever. That would create a situation where people leaving the matrix would be able to secure food clothing and shelter when they get out.

Alternately, the matrix may exist for the AI's benefit as we've been told, and at least some of the surface of the true real world may look like what we have seen, but there is a part of the true real world away from the breeder colonies where there are functioning human societies which could absorb the refgees from the matrix once they emerge from it.

Backing off from the speculation, I think that anyone would agree that if the AI's wanted to undermine people such as Neo's will to destroy the Matrix, they would try to make the alternative to letting the Matrix continue seem as grim as possible. And they might put a great deal of effort into both the seeming part and the grim part.

--Shayne

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PERFECT THEORY  

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Let's put down two kinds of scenarios; one being the famous matrix-within-the-matrix theory, and the other being the one with the existence of only one matrix.
Let's start off with the second one. Concidering that we already know that as the population of the matrix-virtual-world gets bigger and bigger, the probabilities of an anomaly to emerge gets bigger. We know that upon all test subjects, aprox. 99% accepts the program, and only 1% refuses it; 0.0001% of the 100% is the anomaly, or the One. Well, then we come to the idea of it being neccesary to reload the matrix in order to stop the probabbilities to get bigger(as well as stoping the inevitability of the creation of AI inside of the matrix, which can't happen , otherwise there would be too many anomalies to control in too many matrix, infinite matrix), as well as to control that one anomaly and with its code reboot the matrix itself. We also know that all rebelds are "hidding" in Zion, and that they could be concidered as the 1% of all test subjects which don't accept the matrix(Neo is the 0.000001%; the anomaly), so in other words, all of Zion's population are the 1% which refuse the matrix, so we come to the idea of it being neccesay to destroy Zion in order to destroy all freed minds. That's where the Architect and the Oracle gain importance into this matter. As the Matrix cicle beggins,(for all of you who don't know, it starts on the year 1980 and ends on 2009) we know that Zion is rebuilt by every predocessor(the One) chosing 23 people from the matrix,(not from Zion) to this we sum the One and the Ocacle, which all form the resistance. Corcordantly, Zion's population grows each day, freeing more and more minds to join the resistance, and to keep them with hope and purpose, when the One dies, the Oracle foretells the prophesy to the rebelds, saying that the One would eventually come back again, this is THE purpose for the rebelds to go on, to carry on. And eventually the anomaly does show up, here is when the Oracle has to find it, control it, to guide it to his path, the one which finishes with the Architect in the source. He is supposed to choose the right door, which leads to the salvation of Zion, and the reboot of the matrix, and eventually the death of the One in some time on. This cicle, as we know, has happened 5 past times already, and Neo's is the sixth.
My point here is that, if the machines have to dig to find Zion, destroy it everytime to eliminate and control the freed minds(or humans wich don't accept the matrix), in order to then reaload the matrix and start the cicle again.....then wouldn't it be too much work for them to do this everytime?

It is here where we pass to the second scenario, the one of the matrix-within-the-matrix theory. Let's call the first known matrix as the Alpha matrix, and the "real world" as the Beta matrix. As I see it, it would be a much easier work for the machines to make the "real world" another matrix, another control, this way, the actual machines don't have to dig that much to find and destroy Zion, the only one's who would be doing this would be actual PROGRAMS inside of the "real world", inside the Beta matrix, therefore making it alltogether antoher way of control, to keep those "freed minds" in a measure of control, those minds, as they have already waken up, it's ilogical for them to don't accept the "real world" as they see, becacuse it would be as to wake up from a dream and then wake up again from the "reality".

Now, aside from this, I support my theory with two mayor basis:
1) Neo stopping the sentinels outside of the matrix, there are two possible explanations for this:

a) There is a matrix outside of the matrix, therefore, if he in fact has control over the machines in that way, he has control of the area's laws, making it possible for it to be another matrix, another prison for the mind.
b) Neo's mind is separated from his body after the conversation with the Architect his mind stayed in the source, thus when he actualy stopped the sentinels, he in fact disconected them from the source: I'm not on favor of this theory becuase I believe the body can not live without the mind.


2) Smith getting out of the matrix by Banes' body has 2 possible explanations:
a) The only possible explanation for Smith getting out of the matrix via the phone,it is that in fact the "real world" is another matrix, another system in which in this case Smith(the program) can travell to, as this two systems are connected and he can download himself into Bane's mind(this does have a basis of HOW it(smith) downloads himself to Bane's mind).
b) When a mind like Bane's, which can jack in and jack out of the matrix via his hole in the back of his neck(freed mind), then he/she can have a connection with the system of the matrix, thus making it possible for a program as Smith (virus, or "freed" program)to "download" itself to someone'e mind outside of the matrix(it has no basis on HOW it download's itself). I rather think this theory is nearly not possible.

Now, many questions arise from this theory, which can contradict it, but they have their own arguments and possible answers;

" Why not pull the plugs instead of sending sentinels?" In final terms, becuase they(the machines) need to find the anomaly, and it is escencial to reload the matrix, the anomaly needs to be controled.Another question arises from this fact; "Why not pull the plugs of the anomaly once found?" Becuase they NEED IT to reload the matrix. If they don't send the sentinels, what do you think would happen next? Many things would inevitably happen:

a) The rebelds would have all of their time to free every mind on the matrix, one by one. Now if in fact there is a matrix outside of the known matrix, why not pull the plugs to eliminate the rebelds an the One? Because they need to reload the matrix with the ONE'S PRIME CODE(I will talk about this later on*) inside of him, they need to reboot the matrix and start the cicle again.
b) They need to control the anomaly that emerges from the mathemathical error in the matrix, which gets bigger(the probabilites of an anomaly to emerge) as the population of the matrix grows.
c) They also need to reaload the matrix in order to stop the actual creation of AI inside of the matrix, because that would make infinite layers matrix's one inside the other and would bring up too many anomalies to control, would be out of control.
Now, how do they(the machines) get the anomaly to insert his prime code and reload the matrix? By leading him to the source. Why did Neo(in this case) arrived to the source? By going to the Oracle.Why did he go to the Oracle? Because Zion was about to get destroyed, they have limited time in their hands, if not, they would take the time to free everyone's mind one by one; if they hadn't seen the last transmision from the Osiris, and wouldn't be aware of the danger that threatens Zion, they would be taking their time.The Oracle lead them to the Keymaker, the Keymaker lead them to the Source, the source lead Neo to the Architect, the Architect lead Neo to the choice of the two doors. It is the process that NEEDS to be executed in order to RELOAD the matrix and control the minds which reject the matrix(rebelds and the One)

Now this huge process leads us to square one, where it is very possible of both theories to be correct or wrong, it could be a single matrix, or a matrix within a matrix.....
But, which of both of them is easier for the machines to execute?......yes.... you can answer it yourself.....the matrix within the matrix....if the machines make another matrix outside of the know matrix, then the one's who have to dig to find Zion, to do the one after one pain in the ass job, are PROGRAMS......programs inside of a matrix, a system of control.

* I got another theory refering to Neo's importance in the matrix:
I believe that when the Architect stated that he was frustrated by failure when trying to make a stable matrix, he said that maybe he needed a "lesser mind". This makes me think that maybe he NEEDS to use Neo's mind. Let me explain myself; He inserts the PRIME PROGRAM OR CODE of the matrix in him, he uses his mind and the code to "reflect" the reality of the matrix to all the other minds inside the system, thus this way a imperfect mind reflects like a mirror the reality and he serves as a "FILTER" for everyone's perception of the illusion world. If this were to be true, then Neo is UNDOUBTLY NEEDED to RELOAD and "REFLECT" the matrix in an "unperfect"(or less perfect mind) way, thus making it possible for a computer generated world to be stable and going on.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS THEORY?
PIUKNEO.

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PERFECT THEORY  

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WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT MY THEORY......NOT JUST THAT THERE IS A MATRIX WITHIN THE MATRIX, CUZ THAT IS NOT MY THEORY, IT'S EVERYONE'S(THOSE WHO AGREE WITH IT), BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK OF IT, MY FORMULATION.
PIUKNEO.

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Hi everyone, i'm new here.

My name is Richard and i live in Holland (the netherlands? amsterdam?)
My job is: working at the press with my uncle.

Today we had the first screening in Holland for The Matrix Revolutions and I have to say: This is the number 1 movie of 2003!!!
I read a few of your theories right here, and i have to say that some of you are really close to the answer of things.

About there being a Matrix inside the Matrix. I will not spoil to much, because some of you don't want to know the real faith of Neo and Zion, so i will keep it short and spoilerfree. The end of the movie is really amazing. You will leave the theatre with a face which could say: that's not what i was hoping for Shocked
Neo, or Thomas Anderson (which his real name is) will fight the Smiths to prevent Zion from destruction. Will he fails?? You'll have to see that by yourself, because thats where the movie is all about, will Neo destroy the thousands and thousands of Smiths (way much better fight as the one in Reloaded) or will he fail, and will Zion fall.
And what about Neo, is he a machine? SPOILER No, Neo is not a machine, Neo is a human, A human who is not really with the time as i can say it this way SPOILER

O yeah, and watch what Morpheus, Smith and the Architect has in comment. And about the thing that Zion is a part of The Matrix?: No, sorry, that's not true, Zion is something else. Something else.... of NEO!!
Sorry for my not to perfect english

Questions? Please ask them. But don't expect that much answers, some of the big secrets has to remain untill the world release ofcourse Very Happy

Grtz
Richard FilmFreak 2003!!!

Everything that has a beginning has an end
stinkz

  

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glad we know your life story...

Without intolerance, there can be no justice. Without justice, there can be no peace.
The Merovingian King

ZION IS A DREAM WORLD  

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My theory is that Zion is a dream world.


Architect: "As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a NEAR UNCONSCIOUS LEVEL."
-Basically they're still sleep

In the Revolutions Trailer the Oracle says Neo is trapped in a world between the Matrix and The Machine world, which hints that there are more than ONE Matrix worlds we could assume, the Human world, Zion, The Machine world maybe the REAL REAL WORLD.

The Machines control Zion. The sentinels killed the Vigilant's crew. The operators died in an "accident" (ironic since Morpheus is giving the speech about no concidences) This forced Trinity to go into the Matrix, she forgets her phone and doesn't get Link's warning. Then the Architech shows Neo images of Trinity falling, which had not yet taken place in the Matrix. FORCING Neo to take the left Door.

SIDEBAR: On an different theory I beleive the machines wanted neo to take the left door, because they know ONLY a human mind will have to power to fight Smith and the Merovingian. The architech told Neo what he needed to hear like the Oracle did in the first movie. Maybe Neo's purpose which Smith is trying to take away was to destroy Smith and Merovingian.
The Merovingian said he had survided Neo's predecessors as if the previous One's were sent out to kill him. And since They cant risk waking up a bunch humans in Zion, they're still running the program to destroy Zion.

ALSO. How could a computer programs like Smith exist outside of a computer. His name in Zion is Bane (assasin, killer). Also why did the sentinels kill everyone except him. Because they could tell he was not human, but a program. Morpheus explains on the first movie that sentient programs can move TO ANY HARDWARE still connected to the MATRIX. Therefore Zion [COULD or MUST] be connected to the Matrix.

ALSO On an interview Mr. Reeves said they Zion is Zion, but it can be seen as the Blink of Vishnu.

Vishnu sits on a lotus, and every time he opens his eyes the world is created. When he closes his eyes the world is destroyed, and everything is a cycle. Remember Machines are concidered creators in the matrix so although it doesnt PROVE that Zion is a dream world it makes more sense of the fact that it could be.

ALSO the Spoon given to him by the orphan shows that it was bent, which proves that there is the possibility the orphans bent it with their minds. So when Zion is coming to and end some poeple are about to wake up from the "Zion Dream World" which is why every so often it has to be destroyed.

Architect: "Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster."

250,000 humans (including women and children) couldn't pose such a threat to the Machines.

Keyword: PROBABILITY meaning if the population of Zion increases to the point in which a great number of people could wake up from the "Zion Dream World"
That would be considered a"disaster." Also why are those about to wake up ORPHANS. motherless, fatherless, virgin birth, I assume there's some mythological connection, but I cant make it now. Only 30 days till the answers are revealed though.

Just my two testicles I welcome any responses.

DUH

MATRIX REVOLUTIONS WAS NOT RELEASED IN ANY PART OF EUROPE  

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Someone tell that stupid guy that can't speak english to go and never return. First of all NO hollywood movie would be released early in one of the worst places to enforce copyright law. Booh the nedherlands.

NeoFinder

  

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I fully understand your reaction, and as i can not convince you, you just think what you wanna think, but i tell you, we did had a screening yesteday. There were people from England, Germany, France .......

You can believe me, or you don't. I don't care that much, i just wanted you to know, and share some things from the movie with you guys.

Not interested? Fine, than i will leave you alone now. Or... you want me to stay... So... what will it be?

And if you say GO! I will, but first let me tell you a thing to remember during watching the movie, which will prove that i was right Cool

SO DONT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANNA KNOW!

- In the last 15 minutes we will find out what/who NEO really is.
- Morpheus has a mysterious thing
- In the first 30 minutes, we will see Neo fight with Smith in the air when the building behind them explodes.
- And watch what Neo and the Frenchmen has in comment Rolling Eyes

NeoFinder

  

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And what the person above her says:

ZION IS A DREAM WORLD

You are realy realy realy close Razz

emp

  

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This changes everything.

NeoFinder

  

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Such as?...

emp

  

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So many posts, I must be correct!
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Quote:


- In the last 15 minutes we will find out what/who NEO really is.
- Morpheus has a mysterious thing
- In the first 30 minutes, we will see Neo fight with Smith in the air when the building behind them explodes.
- And watch what Neo and the Frenchmen has in comment


What this changes? Well, I had the opportunity to see a unfinished cut of Revolutions some weeks ago, and your post changes alot from the cut I saw.

Here is what I learned from the movie:

- Neo discovers who, or really what, he is about 37 minutes before the end of the movie. So it is not in the last 15 minutes.

- Morpheus' "Thing" is much larger then the an ordinary "Thing", but it was not portrayed as mysterious.

- The fight between Smith and Neo was at the end of the film, and the building in the background did not explode. It was absorbed by a cascade vortex (explained earlier in the movie), and turned upside down. They may have changed this in the final cut.

- Neo and the Frenchmen have several things in common. I like to think that Neo has something in common with us Norwegians too.

NeoFinder

  

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hmmmm.. Let me ask you this:

In your version, where was Neo sitting in the very last scene?
So, not if he was sitting in the real world or in the other world,
but WHERE was he sitting?

emp

  

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Richard FilmFreak 2003!!! wrote:

hmmmm.. Let me ask you this:

In your version, where was Neo sitting in the very last scene?
So, not if he was sitting in the real world or in the other world,
but WHERE was he sitting?


A trick question, eyh? The very last scene did not show Neo sitting.

Maybe I should ask you a question. In the fight between Trinity and Persephone, was the nipple slip still included? That just made the whole fight so much more comedic, but I think they should remove it in the final cut.

The Merovingian King

My Theory again.  

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So you guys that have watched the trailer and/or the screening.

My theory above of Neo being designed to stop smith, is it stupid? or do would yoiu say it's a decent theory.

I dont want spoliers just a little comfirmations....

actually I do want spoilers what's Morpheus scret related to?
as in what it involves?

and The Keymaker was no longer necessary????
what the hell was going with the agents why did they say this?

IF you want to answer this questions, please do so, if not THANK YOU FOR INSIGHT ANYWAY.

EYES of the oracle.... that is someone else isn't it not the oracle?
her eyes are SOMEONE

anyways.

thanx a lot you guys rule

NeoFinder

  

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I didnt see any nipple slip in the whole movie sorry.

The question of Neo was sitting somewhere was to see which version you saw. There was a rumor that in the alternative end, you would see him wake up behind his computer, which would be that he has dreamt all of the stuff he made up. So, like a dream. But the version i saw didnt end that way. Let's just say: a final scene without "the one" Wink

about the theory of The Merovingian King:

Neo has to destroy smith, because if smith does stay alive he would destroy "ZION". (Lets say the Oracle has something to do with this)

Morpheus? Yeah.... If you say anything on this, it would reveal to much
(My opinion!)

Keymaker was to lead The One to the source, and that wasn't nesaccery anymore, because they think The One would never reach that "Place"

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