»how was the first ONE freed?«

apocryphe wrote:

And you always use that argument that it's not officially stated,

No. I always say:

apocryphe wrote:

There is nothing to suggest...

See the difference between the Christ figure and machines rebuilding Zion?

And alternate scenario indicates that since Thomas is on the Neb, and assuming the ship is still operational during the destruction that ensues, all he has to do is rescue one of the people he has chosen in it. If he actually rescues all 23 and brings them to Zion, the word can be passed on just like Morpheus related it before: "...he...freed the first of us." In other words, it fits. Whereas the machines helping rebuild and all that presents many contradictions that require more outlandish speculations to reconcile. And from the MWaM thread, one can see I'm clearly against that.

aether wrote:

PS - Intell, I'm finding that I really like discussing things with you more and more when we're not engaged in petty bickering.

Well, some of your responses (even while bickering) sound strangely like what I would say. Watch out. That might be a bad sign.

aether wrote:

Agree on the first part. As for the second part, it is your goal sometimes. By simply responding to anyone you are revealing that you are looking for something.

Hmmm. Perhaps I should have specified "positive feedback" as kudos/"good job"s. Yes I guess I am looking for something. But not praise, in itself.

aether wrote:

If it was simply uninfluenced enlightment you sought, I doubt you'd be here or post at all.

True.

aether wrote:

Woah. Where did that come from? Did all that stuff in there come from you or from Gina or both?

Gina Rink. I can't take credit for anything like that.

aether wrote:

Oooooo... I don't know about that. I appreciate the English language but I didn't have to reinvent it to use it.

You almost missed the point about making the effort to find the answers, coming before being able to appreciate other's efforts. But I think you get it.

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In total there are 39 users online :: 1 Registered, 1 Hidden and 37 Guests Registered Users: intell We have 8086 registered users Our users have posted a total of 82614 articles The newest registered user is gina rink3

What is going on here? Gina Rink, is someone going to try to impersonate you?

Aether wrote:

You confuse the complexity of the answer with the necessity with which all should come to the same conclusion or the premises by which to get there.

I have other people quoted on my website simply because I found their ideas so interesting even though a) some of the ideas don't arrive at my same conclusion, and b) some of them use different methods of arriving at their conclusions than I do. What you say flat out contradicts my website.

- Surprised

Surprised wrote:

I have other people quoted on my website simply because I found their ideas so interesting even though a) some of the ideas don't arrive at my same conclusion, and b) some of them use different methods of arriving at their conclusions than I do. What you say flat out contradicts my website.

Funny that you took that to mean I was taking a shot at you when really I was adding to your arguement against Intell. Apropos.

Aether wrote:

Funny that you took that to mean I was taking a shot at you when really I was adding to your arguement against Intell. Apropos.

Sorry - you didn't say who you were talking about and instead left people to think you were just replying to me since your words appeared directly below mine.

LMAO! You hear that, Aether. It is your fault that "people" (plural) got the wrong idea, even though I knew who you were talking about and responded to it, no less, a few posts back. What a riot!

My apologies. I see what you guys are saying.

- Surprised

Aether wrote:

LOL You can't talk without evoking the past or the future.

I'm not now.

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Free your mind does not literally mean forget everything.

At this point, it means whatever you want it to mean.

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The best you can hope for is to make the past, present and future one.

The ends justify the means, then?

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Make all time one.

At which level?

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quote]That is what it means to see the world without time.

The world without time doesn't exist on the physical plane...in the egoic world.

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And even at that, when you talk you must rely on your schemata to try to fit them into others's schemata.

Only if one finds the need to do so, but that need doesn't develop in the present moment, does it?

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Well, unless you just like to talk to hear yourself talk...

If a mute person grabs your sandwich out of your hand, and eats it in less than 15 seconds, is it any guess that person was hungry? And, they never said a word.

Quote:

And by writing the song with the intent to distribute, he proved that he hadn't let go completely and you have perpetuated the loop by posting it here.

So, the only way to Rage Against The Machine is to grow dredlocks and yell and scream on stage and smoke a lot of weed? This question really is which Machine are you raging against?

Quote:

The thing that interestes me most about you Gina is that when you get backed into a corner of the being trapped in the physical world you say "let it go" and then when people are tolerant you scream "wake up and evolve." It must be a tough existence for you to not know whether to stop posting here cause you've achieved enlightened detachment or to keep posting cause you must let everyone else know that they don't get it and need to break free and let go as you have (not).

I'm never been backed into a corner. As there are no corners. If you're suggesting this is some kind of contest, then you've already lost because you're playing against yourself.

I'm not screaming anything. I'm not being vocal at all. No, Aether, this is your fantasy. I'm not obligated to you and you're not obligated to me. And, I think you chose to speak on my behalf and I corrected you. If you think this is more than that, then perhaps, you'd like to stop thinking.

Gina Rink wrote:

Aether wrote: LOL You can't talk without evoking the past or the future. I'm not now.

Yes you are. Where'd you get those words and those concepts from? Did they just occur to you as you wrote them?

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: Free your mind does not literally mean forget everything. At this point, it means whatever you want it to mean.

Fair enough.

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: The best you can hope for is to make the past, present and future one. The ends justify the means, then?

...is one way of looking at it.

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: Make all time one. At which level?

There are levels? Like Mario Brothers?

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: That is what it means to see the world without time. The world without time doesn't exist on the physical plane...in the egoic world.

And you can see what's making the shadows on the wall? For real? How'd you get out of your shackles?

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: And even at that, when you talk you must rely on your schemata to try to fit them into others's schemata. Only if one finds the need to do so, but that need doesn't develop in the present moment, does it?

You're putting your thoughts into words aren't you?

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: Well, unless you just like to talk to hear yourself talk... If a mute person grabs your sandwich out of your hand, and eats it in less than 15 seconds, is it any guess that person was hungry? And, they never said a word.

Yeah, they coulda just been eating the sandwich to piss you off even if they just ate a big meal.

Gina Rink wrote:

Quote: And by writing the song with the intent to distribute, he proved that he hadn't let go completely and you have perpetuated the loop by posting it here. So, the only way to Rage Against The Machine is to grow dredlocks and yell and scream on stage and smoke a lot of weed? This question really is which Machine are you raging against?

I've got a few. The one I'm raging against right now is yours.

Gina Rink wrote:

I'm never been backed into a corner. As there are no corners. If you're suggesting this is some kind of contest, then you've already lost because you're playing against yourself.

Funny that you would think I'm telling you that it is a contest. Are there no other explanations that might be evident?

Thinking alone does not make it so. Here it is, go get a vietnam vet that lost his legs to get up and walk around on his own just because he "thinks" there are no corners. Report your results on this board.

Gina Rink wrote:

I'm not screaming anything. I'm not being vocal at all. No, Aether, this is your fantasy. I'm not obligated to you and you're not obligated to me. And, I think you chose to speak on my behalf and I corrected you. If you think this is more than that, then perhaps, you'd like to stop thinking.

I didn't speak for you, I spoke for me. What you intended is (possibly) not what I received. I ask you to explain the transmission, you say no. That's fine.

Yes this is my fantasy. I find though that most people enjoy testing to see if they live in the same delusion, you revel in yours and yours alone most. Your choice. I prefer the red pill, you the blue. Enjoy your acid trip alone, have at it. And by "alone" I mean being elusive as a means of demonstrating your inferiority/superiority.

Aether wrote:

Gina Rink wrote: Aether wrote: LOL You can't talk without evoking the past or the future. I'm not now. Yes you are. Where'd you get those words and those concepts from? Did they just occur to you as you wrote them? Gina Rink wrote: Quote: Free your mind does not literally mean forget everything. At this point, it means whatever you want it to mean. Fair enough. Gina Rink wrote: Quote: The best you can hope for is to make the past, present and future one. The ends justify the means, then? ...is one way of looking at it. Gina Rink wrote: Quote: Make all time one. At which level? There are levels? Like Mario Brothers? Gina Rink wrote: Quote: That is what it means to see the world without time. The world without time doesn't exist on the physical plane...in the egoic world. And you can see what's making the shadows on the wall? For real? How'd you get out of your shackles? Gina Rink wrote: Quote: And even at that, when you talk you must rely on your schemata to try to fit them into others's schemata. Only if one finds the need to do so, but that need doesn't develop in the present moment, does it? You're putting your thoughts into words aren't you? Gina Rink wrote: Quote: Well, unless you just like to talk to hear yourself talk... If a mute person grabs your sandwich out of your hand, and eats it in less than 15 seconds, is it any guess that person was hungry? And, they never said a word. Yeah, they coulda just been eating the sandwich to piss you off even if they just ate a big meal. Gina Rink wrote: Quote: And by writing the song with the intent to distribute, he proved that he hadn't let go completely and you have perpetuated the loop by posting it here. So, the only way to Rage Against The Machine is to grow dredlocks and yell and scream on stage and smoke a lot of weed? This question really is which Machine are you raging against? I've got a few. The one I'm raging against right now is yours. Gina Rink wrote: I'm never been backed into a corner. As there are no corners. If you're suggesting this is some kind of contest, then you've already lost because you're playing against yourself. Funny that you would think I'm telling you that it is a contest. Are there no other explanations that might be evident? Thinking alone does not make it so. Here it is, go get a vietnam vet that lost his legs to get up and walk around on his own just because he "thinks" there are no corners. Report your results on this board. Gina Rink wrote: I'm not screaming anything. I'm not being vocal at all. No, Aether, this is your fantasy. I'm not obligated to you and you're not obligated to me. And, I think you chose to speak on my behalf and I corrected you. If you think this is more than that, then perhaps, you'd like to stop thinking. I didn't speak for you, I spoke for me. What you intended is (possibly) not what I received. I ask you to explain the transmission, you say no. That's fine. Yes this is my fantasy. I find though that most people enjoy testing to see if they live in the same delusion, you revel in yours and yours alone most. Your choice. I prefer the red pill, you the blue. Enjoy your acid trip alone, have at it. And by "alone" I mean being elusive as a means of demonstrating your inferiority/superiority.

Are you aware how the word "Aether" basically is the opposite of most of what you've said?

And, if you're wondering how I know what I know, I've been studying these things for a long time.

Gina Rink wrote:

Are you aware how the word "Aether" basically is the opposite of most of what you've said?

Who cares.

You can not socialize aether. You can only attempt to put it into words and even then most people only attempt to do so to share in the revelation as much as they can.

Speak and be are two aspects that while part of aether, can not be called one or the other.

Gina Rink wrote:

And, if you're wondering how I know what I know, I've been studying these things for a long time.

Apparently not long enough.

“Prana, to justify himself, made as if he intended to leave the body. But as he rose and appeared to be going, all the rest realized that if he went they also would have to depart with him; and as Prana again seated himself, the rest found their respective places. As bees go out when their queen goes out, and return when she returns, so was it with speech, mind, vision, hearing, and the rest. Convinced of their error, the powers now praised Prana...” (Prashna Upanishad 2:4)

"Pranas first expounding came in the Upanishads, where it is part of the worldly, physical realm, sustaining the body and the mother of thought and thus also of the mind. Prana suffuses all living form but is not itself the Atma or individual soul." -Wikipedia

You know, come to think of it, I've been thinking for a long time too. Isn't that an interesting coincidence. I wonder how long a "long time" is?

What happened to the past being useless? Yours or any persons's/texts's you've studied?

Quote:

Apparently not long enough. “Prana, to justify himself, made as if he intended to leave the body. But as he rose and appeared to be going, all the rest realized that if he went they also would have to depart with him; and as Prana again seated himself, the rest found their respective places. As bees go out when their queen goes out, and return when she returns, so was it with speech, mind, vision, hearing, and the rest. Convinced of their error, the powers now praised Prana...” (Prashna Upanishad 2:4) "Pranas first expounding came in the Upanishads, where it is part of the worldly, physical realm, sustaining the body and the mother of thought and thus also of the mind. Prana suffuses all living form but is not itself the Atma or individual soul." -Wikipedia You know, come to think of it, I've been thinking for a long time too. Isn't that an interesting coincidence. I wonder how long a "long time" is? What happened to the past being useless? Yours or any persons's/texts's you've studied?

Oh man, this is good! I love the information coming out of this post exchange.