»Plug it in, plug it in?«

Hey guys

I always thought that the ships actually had some kind of physical connection that they plugged into to jack into the Matrix.

Yeah, I know, kinda dumb since Morph said they broadcast. I was watching LFoO this weekend and they jacked in while running from the machines. Thus they didn't actually plug in anywhere to jack in.

My point is, any theories about Neo being able to wirelessly jack into the matrix don't seem too far fetched since the ships already do it.

Thoughts?

Intresting...I can't answer this question...Can you? *picture of uncle sam*

Aquin wrote:

My point is, any theories about Neo being able to wirelessly jack into the matrix doesn't seem to far fetched since the ships already do it.

Mobil Ave Neo has put forward a theory like this. That Neo was in close enough proximity to a ship when he wirelessly jacked in to just piggy-back onto that ship's broadcast signal.

I'm not totally convinced myself, but there's definitely support for the idea

Perhaps more hard-copy-from-the-movie support than for the MWaM?

They always need the construct in order to create a carrier signal with the Matrix. Which to my opinion is the symbolisation of the 'silver chord of life' which connects the spirit body (RSI) with the material body; that's why they die when they loose the connection abruptly.

I believe that Neo uses the Hammer's computer/contruct in order to re-establish the contact between his brain and his RSI.

It's a shame that no-one was watching Neo's body when the Trainman knocked him against the wall. If his physical body would have reacted, then we would know for sure that there was some kind of carrier signal straight to his brain.

So do the ship's have a continuous broadcast or was the Hammer broadcasting at that time? Either one of the two in order for Neo to hack into that signal.

Maybe there's a third option? I'm not sure.

So, the third option:
Since the Oracle actually said that he touched the Source; Neo did wirelessly connect to the source and manipulated the Source to stop the machines. But in doing that Source treated him like a program and tried to assemilate him back into the source, but he wasn't ready for that - thus he went to Mobil Ave as an 'exile'. He should have been dead because the Source should have assemilated him thus cutting the connection of mind and body. (like someone being pulled out of the Matrix prematurely)

any questions?

(intell - i knew you'd like the third options)

(MWaM --> <--my theories)

The Hammer is broadcasting all the time offcourse, why else do they have a constant Matrix-feed on the monitors?

What bothers me is that there are no cold hard facts for both theories:

theorie 1:

when he woke up in Mobil Ave he re-established the connection feed between his RSI and physical brain

theorie 2:

he became a full program down there, standing on his own

Then tell us, please, how you arrive at Neo's ability to use the Hammer's feed, not being hooked in and all.

the same way i hacked my neighbor's wireless router signal before i got my own.
Neo was a hacker, right?

Ever heard of will and the unimaginable powers that a human can have, all hidden in his subconscious part of his mind/spirit?

Neo is still alive and his hart is beating for one person only (that's why Rama Kandra states that they are in Mobil Ave for the same reason: a loved one). So I believe it is possible that Neo seeks contact with his subconscious mind.

Don't ask me how he does this, because no-one every really proofed how the subconscious mind really works.

Your subconsious part of the mind has a huge impact or your life. Just only think about fobia. People are sometimes dead afraid of situations, while consciously they don't even want to be afraid because it is blocking the progress of their life. Yet they are still slaves of the 'subconscious' mind; do you see how much power and will are inside the subconscious part of the mind?

And technically it isn't even so hard to do. Neo's brainwaves just have to use the computer from the Hammer (which already has a hacked/decrypted matrix-feed running) and then his waves have to float through raw data (also flowing through the Machine City/Source, because the Matrix is connected to them) untill he 'finds' his RSI.

Quote:

Neo: What are they? Morpheus: Agents. Sentient programs. They can move in and out of any software still hardwired to their system. Which means anyone we haven't unplugged...

Your residual self image is the "software" that they co-opt, so to prevent them from hi-jacking it you must not be hardwired to the system. But this raises the question of how they do so...

Quote:

Morpheus: This is the main deck---and this is the core...where we broadcast our pirate signal and hack into the Matrix.

I say all that to say that that explains how Neo entered the Matrix wirelessly. He did it the exact same way the hovercraft do---he became a pirate signal of his own. It's not enough that he made it to Mobil Ave. He also had to remain alive (maintain his connection to his body) without a hard wire connection. The ships can do it, so that explains how he can do it. But still that leaves unanswered questions...

The Matrix, by necessity, is a hard-wired system. Unlike a wireless router there is no "broadcast signal" (as Morpheus called it) to ride on. How they "hack" into a hard wire is still unexplained. I suppose there is some ungiven explaination---however, by definition that means we have not been given it yet.

I believe the explaination is this:

Neo is able to pirate broadcast/interface with the Matrix and the machine world just as the hovercraft do.

Neo's powers in the Matrix are directly given by the mainframe that controls the Matrix---The Source. The Source is not just the "voice" of all the machine world, it is also the mainframe that controls all aspects of the system including the "powers" of The One. Inside the Matrix, Neo "touches" the Source through a hard-wired connection. Outside the Matrix he uses this "pirate" signal to connect to it.

While he instinctively did it at the end of Reloaded, he was not yet ready to use this ability outside the Matrix to "touch" the Source. After talking to Oracle in Revolutions he learns the Source is where his powers come from and after being blinded, apparently, he is now able to use this ability without it overwhelming him and pushing him back into limbo again.

In science fiction storytelling it is called "verisilimilitude". Simply put it means that the explaination of something is detailed enough that even though it may not be scientifically provable it may be scientifically possible. Carl Sagan's writings were fiction with the point being science. The Matrix is science with the point being the spiritual journey.

Their ability to be consistent with the one will undoubtedly outweigh the other.

mobil_ave_neo wrote:

Ever heard of will and the unimaginable powers that a human can have, all hidden in his subconscious part of his mind/spirit? Neo is still alive and his hart is beating for one person only (that's why Rama Kandra states that they are in Mobil Ave for the same reason: a loved one). So I believe it is possible that Neo seeks contact with his subconscious mind. Don't ask me how he does this, because no-one every really proofed how the subconscious mind really works.

I agree that it is practically boundless. So how is it that you suggest that the Hammer was needed (not to mentioned used) at all?

I prefer evolusionary's observations (well put).

Evolusionary wrote:

Quote: Neo: What are they? Morpheus: Agents. Sentient programs. They can move in and out of any software still hardwired to their system. Which means anyone we haven't unplugged... Your residual self image is the "software" that they co-opt, so to prevent them from hi-jacking it you must not be hardwired to the system. But this raises the question of how they do so... Quote: Morpheus: This is the main deck---and this is the core...where we broadcast our pirate signal and hack into the Matrix. I say all that to say that that explains how Neo entered the Matrix wirelessly. He did it the exact same way the hovercraft do---he became a pirate signal of his own. It's not enough that he made it to Mobil Ave. He also had to remain alive (maintain his connection to his body) without a hard wire connection. The ships can do it, so that explains how he can do it. But still that leaves unanswered questions... The Matrix, by necessity, is a hard-wired system. Unlike a wireless router there is no "broadcast signal" (as Morpheus called it) to ride on. How they "hack" into a hard wire is still unexplained. I suppose there is some ungiven explaination---however, by definition that means we have not been given it yet. I believe the explaination is this: Neo is able to pirate broadcast/interface with the Matrix and the machine world just as the hovercraft do. Neo's powers in the Matrix are directly given by the mainframe that controls the Matrix---The Source. The Source is not just the "voice" of all the machine world, it is also the mainframe that controls all aspects of the system including the "powers" of The One. Inside the Matrix, Neo "touches" the Source through a hard-wired connection. Outside the Matrix he uses this "pirate" signal to connect to it. While he instinctively did it at the end of Reloaded, he was not yet ready to use this ability outside the Matrix to "touch" the Source. After talking to Oracle in Revolutions he learns the Source is where his powers come from and after being blinded, apparently, he is now able to use this ability without it overwhelming him and pushing him back into limbo again. In science fiction storytelling it is called "verisilimilitude". Simply put it means that the explaination of something is detailed enough that even though it may not be scientifically provable it may be scientifically possible. Carl Sagan's writings were fiction with the point being science. The Matrix is science with the point being the spiritual journey. Their ability to be consistent with the one will undoubtedly outweigh the other.

*stands and does the slow clap...clap..clap.clap into full blow applause*

well said

So, by Ev's explination, Neo didn't need the ship to hi-jack into the Matrix.

Right.

And there's nothing in the story to suggest he used it, either.

intell wrote:

Right. And there's nothing in the story to suggest he used it, either.

other than he did. i'm not saying thats exactly how he did it. but he did. he jacked in w/o using a ship. totally on accident. but, we're just throwing out how he might have done it.

i think when he touched the source to stop those sentenels, the source tried to delete him/kill him, but he wasn't ready to die, thus got routed to mobile ave.

That's what I said.

intell wrote:

Right. And there's nothing in the story to suggest he used it, either.

i thought your were refering to his ability to jack in wirelessly.

my b.

In some cases Neo defies the laws of physics. Over the course of the trilogy Neo breaks the laws of physics 4 times: Twice within the Matrix and twice outside the Matrix. He does this by holding up his hand and stopping an object that has absolutely no reason to halt where it is. I said in a previous thread that Neo being shot is the moment he stops being Thomas Anderson, but he does not become "The One" until the moment he holds up his hands to stop the bullets. The two are two seperate acts signifying two seperate events. He didn't think he could stop the bullets...he knew he could.

Quote:

Morpheus: Don't think you are...know you are.

Being The One doesn't mean moving as fast as an agent...

Quote:

Trinity: How did you do that? Neo: Do what? Trinity: You moved like they do.

And it doesn't mean getting up after being shot by Smith. Being The One means nothing even threatening to touch you. It means being in total control of reality. And not just thinking you are...but knowing you are in control, even when rationally you shouldn't be.

I said all that to say I'm not so sure the Source was trying to delete Neo. I believe it is as Oracle had said. Neo went somewhere he wasn't supposed to. He, of his own volition, attempted to utilize the Source without knowing that that was where his powers came from. Inside the Matrix there are controls (after all that is all the Matrix is) but outside it is just flesh and blood exposed to the full might of the Source. I bet no anamoly ever attempted to utilize his powers outside the Matrix before. But something changed in this anamoly. He didn't think he could stop the sentinels. He knew he could. I think that that is the whole point behind Revolutions. Discovery of what The One can really do. Realization that his powers do not come from the Matrix.

A recurring theme in the series is that Neo can do something as soon as he learns the "why". Once he was told why he was able to stop the Sentinels he immediately goes on a road trip to the machine city. And what is the first thing he does when the machines come after him? He does the exact same thing that shunted him into limbo the first time. He holds up his hand to stop them as he does in the Matrix. Only this time he is aware of himself. He doesn't just "feel them". He knows what he feels and why. Scientifically, this shouldn't matter worth a hill of beans but as I said before this is not about science masquerading as spirituality, this is spirituality masquerading as science. In the Matrix Neo can see the Matrix as code. Once outside the Matrix we learn this is not a gift confined to the Matrix.

Under the right circumstances, Neo could see beyond the UV spectrum that most people do. Under the right circumstances I believe Neo could also jack into the Matrix standing on a rock somewhere. Unlike everyone else he has met, his abilities don't come from the Matrix. Obviously, the Source is more than just a mainframe running the Matrix and the powers of The One. It is a conduit to a higher plane of existence...but the story hasn't gotten that far yet, has it?

Aquin wrote:

i think when he touched the source to stop those sentenels, the source tried to delete him/kill him, but he wasn't ready to die, thus got routed to mobile ave.

I don't agree with this. I think he disconnected himself from the Source too late, so when the Sentinels went offline there was no possibility for him to let his mind return to his body.

This is also somewhat 'proof' that he needed the ships's feed to restore the connection with his mind/RSI.

Neo cannot do it by him self, brainwaves can never reach this far on their own!

We not only see Neo bend the physics of space in the real and Matrix worlds, but he also gains the ability to "see without time" in the real world. That, to me, suggests that his "real world consciousness" is transcending the boundaries of normal human consciousness.

Is it possible that his powers stretch all the way back to where they come from means not that they are granted by the Source, but that since his consciousness was expanded initially with-in the Matrix, there is no place in the Matrix that is off limits to his superhuman conscious, including the very foundation of it (The Source)?

So he enters the Matrix in much the same way the main character in Dreamscape enters dreams. Because he is beginning to see the world the way that a being existing outside of time and the boundaries of normal thought would?

The machines represent a new "form of intelligence".

This is profound.

I believe the point the Brothers were trying to make is that there is more than one path to God.

As humans we have always believed that there is only one way to the foundation of creation and all the forces therein. Just as Rama had to inform Neo that machines understand the concept of love had a dimension that even he had not considered, so too does the realm of the "extra-natural". I think the machines "endowed with the very spirit of man" don't just represent the "spirit world". I think (as far as being literal elements of the story) they represent a new way to supernaturality. They have a literal connection to the transcendant realm just as humans do.

And Neo touched that.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Aquin wrote: i think when he touched the source to stop those sentenels, the source tried to delete him/kill him, but he wasn't ready to die, thus got routed to mobile ave. I don't agree with this. I think he disconnected himself from the Source too late, so when the Sentinels went offline there was no possibility for him to let his mind return to his body. This is also somewhat 'proof' that he needed the ships's feed to restore the connection with his mind/RSI. Neo cannot do it by him self, brainwaves can never reach this far on their own!

I don't necissarily disagree w/ you here. But my question is: What do you mean by he disconnected himself too late? What should he have waited for?

The Oracle tells him that he touched the source and should be dead. (which could mean the source would have tried to delete him. if we stick to delete for programs=death for humans.) If thats true then it would explain how he ended up in Mobile Ave.

Who knows, but if Neo's power comes from the Source then the Source could take it back through his deletion, just like it did to Smith in M3. But, again, he wasn't ready for that and like other programs he ended up in one of the only places where programs are smuggled into the Matrix as an exile (if exile=program that should be deleted but denied that fate).


ps-couldn't he have hijacked the sentinel's feed to the source as well?

Aquin wrote:

ps-couldn't he have hijacked the sentinel's feed to the source as well?

Never really thought about it, but we never see the machines stopping anywhere to "recharge." How is their power delivered from the Matrix? How do they connect to the Source to begin with? It does seem that the machines must largely be wireless devices. And since Neo is still infested with machines (the plugs on his neck which connect to even more tech with-in his body), perhaps he is automatically connected to this wireless feed like all people with implants?

I guess that's kinda been said before, but that idea of him connecting through the sentinels strikes me a nice way (somehow that came out very inappropriately!).