»where is neo's family?«

I don't think anyone's arguing that Thomas Anderson had no parents. The discussion is more, why are they not present.

None of the red pills has a family member in their lives. No one that we are shown ever seems to show any interest in going in to find their parents (or children). Why is that? Is it because they're rebelious, and so naturally distance themselves from relationships? Or is there more to it or less?

I only put forward that maybe it was because no one was really blood related to their parents. So far, there hasn't been a glut of alternatives for the distance between red pills and their families.

Just to seperate my previous post idea and the one to agree with what was said in this thread regarding tangents the discussion stemmed, I do REALLY like the idea that RSI remains after mind is freed. AWESOME IDEA! I truly believe that this is what we are meant to think from seeing all the people die in the films, especially Kid's suicide. But if the body cannot live without the mind and Neo's body attached to Deus is now dead, that does say that Neo is dead. I apologize for that, but the facts are all spelled out for us. Neo says in Reloaded after almost being written over by Smith that "it felt like dying," not "it felt like I was dead." Because the process wasn't completed the way it was in the crater in Revolutions. And if anyone knows what it feels like to die, it's Neo. Neo died (technically) when he was unplugged, died in the hallway by being shot to death by Smith, almost died again by being overwritten by Smith in Debir Court, went into near death coma after "touching" 5 sentinels (not four) after the Neb was destroyed, and finally died in the crater, body and mind, after being totally overwritten by the Smith virus. In the archived thoughts recovered in MxO of Neo's final minutes, his last word, I believe, was "Relief". From what I understand about death, that pretty much spells it out for anyone paying attention.

But don't let these facts sway you from the idea that RSI's remain after mind leave, of course they do, we've seen it many times. But you are correct Crisis Four "I dont want to ignite any Neo is dead/alive war, but its a possibility.."

Until more facts are needed,

Kozar

But you've listed many times Neo dies, and yet lives, so the damning proof against his living is also the proof that he has yet lived.

And Larry used the term satori to describe what happens to Neo at the end. I agree with you that Neo has been removed from the cycle of birth and death (based on what Larry has said) but this does not mean he is dead, it just also doesn't mean he is alive either.

Some people say he is the black cat that walks past Sati. I say he is the bricks turning themselves over and the Matrix resetting itself.

CaptPostMod wrote:

I don't think anyone's arguing that Thomas Anderson had no parents. The discussion is more, why are they not present. None of the red pills has a family member in their lives. No one that we are shown ever seems to show any interest in going in to find their parents (or children). Why is that? Is it because they're rebelious, and so naturally distance themselves from relationships? Or is there more to it or less? I only put forward that maybe it was because no one was really blood related to their parents. So far, there hasn't been a glut of alternatives for the distance between red pills and their families.

I understand capt. You all want to know why Thomas Anderson, who has dedicated the last few years of his life searching for truth in a world he knows to be false, is no longer associating himself with his parents. Although we cannot 100% understand what is going through Neo's head during his pursuit, I believe we can all agree on at least one thing. Thomas Anderson isn't Neo, and Neo isn't Thomas Anderson. Thomas Anderson has been gradually freeing his mind from his 9 to 5 (literally) persona, to his new self (Neo). And he knows the next step in his personnal evolution is to (he thinks) find Morpheus. In order to progress in his search for truth he feels he must not have a relationship, not concern himself with the fruits of "materialistic" things in his current world, and leave behind his parents and his history. "We cannot walk into our future with our feet stuck in the past."

CaptPostMod wrote:

But you've listed many times Neo dies, and yet lives, so the damning proof against his living is also the proof that he has yet lived. And Larry used the term satori to describe what happens to Neo at the end. I agree with you that Neo has been removed from the cycle of birth and death (based on what Larry has said) but this does not mean he is dead, it just also doesn't mean he is alive either. Some people say he is the black cat that walks past Sati. I say he is the bricks turning themselves over and the Matrix resetting itself.

Yes, becuase everytime Neo was killed he was revived, i.e. he wasn't ready to die. This time, the moment of satori, he finally released himself from the cycle. With Trinity being the reason he was revived the second time, maybe even the first and third (Trinity meaning his love for her, the undeniable point of the trilogy), with her now being dead, he feels he has no reason to live but fights because he has no reason to die. Until the Oracle speaks to him through Smith and Neo knows that his impending death is indeed "inevitable" Relief

As for Neo being the cat, I can't say much for that theory that hasn't already been said about non-alcholic beer; it's wrong, has no reason for existing, and always leave you with a nasty taste in your mouth.

However, YOUR theory about the bricks, leaves me both refreshed and inspired. Now that is a freer mind. Outside the parameters thinking that can make sense on both a literal level, Neo now is released from the life/death cycle. And makes sense on a programming level, his mind is now written into the very fabric of the system, just like all the programs in the matrix that are doing their jobs, he is invisible.

Wow, I had a revelation while writing that last paragraph capt. I think I found the topic for my next paper. Thanks.

Kozar

Kozar wrote:

Wow, I had a revelation while writing that last paragraph capt. I think I found the topic for my next paper. Thanks.

Glad I could help!

Did Neo have real Parents? Yes.

Could Neo get his Parents out of the Matrix? No because they know the Matrix world to be the only real world.

Did Neo die at the end of the film? Yes the writers did not want a 4th film they killed off Neo and Trinity.

But them again Neo represents Jesus Christ and the Christians believe that Jesus is coming back.

There was no RSI of Neo at the end of Revolutions, meaning that he had truly been removed from the Matrix - he, as in, his presence in the matrix (which did have a purpose) had fulfilled what purpose it had - to return to the source, balancing the equation.

As I have said, there was No RSI, could this mean that Neos mind was detached from the matrix at the point of his code being used? He did touch the source remember, though it didnt kill him last time he did it. To go out on a limb, I could say that the Deus ex wasnt talking to himself, but Neo.
From the fact that there is bo RSI, we can say that Neo is now truly free of the Matrix, his duty fulfilled, no longer carrying the burden of the one. Imagine the RELIEF.

As for the black cat/bricks overturning, I think this is just the reloading of the matrix. That is exactly the same cat as the one used to teach us that a Deja vu is a glitch in the matrix - when something is changed...a new version of the matrix.

Kozar wrote:

However, YOUR theory about the bricks, leaves me both refreshed and inspired. Now that is a freer mind. Outside the parameters thinking that can make sense on both a literal level, Neo now is released from the life/death cycle. And makes sense on a programming level, his mind is now written into the very fabric of the system, just like all the programs in the matrix that are doing their jobs, he is invisible.

Kozar captured what I was saying 100%.

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No one that we are shown ever seems to show any interest in going in to find their parents (or children).

An earlier draft of the script for The Matrix opens like this:

A guy makes a phone call to his girlfriend.

He tells her he has found out something incredible about the world, and that he has met some people who will get them both out.

The Agents have his phone call tapped. They break in and kill him.

Back in Zion, Trinity and company say that the guy who was just killed was a potential "One" but not "the" One. Why? Because when they gave him the red pill (which he apparently took) they told him not to tell anyone else about the true nature of things. But he couldn't keep his mouth shut, so the Agents tracked him down and iced him.

This actually is a much stronger beginning than in the final version. For one thing, it shows the Agents to be capable of doing something other than chasing people futilely (in the three released Matrix films, the Agents never succeed in actually killing anyone, you'll note). For another, it heightens the paranoia.

And it may be why Mr Anderson is "the One" -- because he is so emotionally detached he does not go blabbing about things to everyone.

Just some thoughts...

Blake wrote:

Quote: No one that we are shown ever seems to show any interest in going in to find their parents (or children). An earlier draft of the script for The Matrix opens like this: A guy makes a phone call to his girlfriend. He tells her he has found out something incredible about the world, and that he has met some people who will get them both out. The Agents have his phone call tapped. They break in and kill him. Back in Zion, Trinity and company say that the guy who was just killed was a potential "One" but not "the" One. Why? Because when they gave him the red pill (which he apparently took) they told him not to tell anyone else about the true nature of things. But he couldn't keep his mouth shut, so the Agents tracked him down and iced him. This actually is a much stronger beginning than in the final version. For one thing, it shows the Agents to be capable of doing something other than chasing people futilely (in the three released Matrix films, the Agents never succeed in actually killing anyone, you'll note). For another, it heightens the paranoia. And it may be why Mr Anderson is "the One" -- because he is so emotionally detached he does not go blabbing about things to everyone. Just some thoughts...

From where is it? From the Art of the Matrix?
Does it have the complete script or only what they changed at the 1996, 1997, 1998 drafts that are available online?

Michelle McGahey was the Art Director.

psikeyhackr wrote:

And once a Red Pill learns about Zion and the machines he knows they can't really be his biological parents.

Exactly! And if he doubts the Matrix on a subconscious level even before seeing Zion, then he probably doubts many of his ties to the people in it on that same level.

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(in the three released Matrix films, the Agents never succeed in actually killing anyone, you'll note)

I noted that the 2 main characters were killed by agents. And I don't know how anyone could have survived that car accident when Agent Johnson jumped on the hood, either. If so, I bet they were pretty messed up. LOL.

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For another, it heightens the paranoia.

That, it does.

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From where is it [earlier version of The Matrix script]? From the Art of the Matrix? Does it have the complete script or only what they changed at the 1996, 1997, 1998 drafts that are available online?

I came across it in a Google search a year or two ago. Lost track of it completely. It's still out there, somewhere in The Matrix!

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I noted that the 2 main characters were killed by agents.

You mean in M1 in the shoot-out when they return from the Oracle?

I wouldn't count Smith killing Neo at the end of M3 since Smith is by now an uber-virus.

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And I don't know how anyone could have survived that car accident when Agent Johnson jumped on the hood, either.

There was a casual disregard for life and limb in M2 and M3. They kill a lot of bystanders (or by-drivers) in the freeway car chase.

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There was a casual disregard for life and limb in M2 and M3. They kill a lot of bystanders (or by-drivers) in the freeway car chase.

Red shirts are only relevant for suspense and entertainment value. Red Pills are immune to the blood of Blue Pills. Watch Kill Bill to get a proper Hollywood perspective. You sound like you think movies are about human beings.

psikey

blake wrote:

intell wrote: I noted that the 2 main characters were killed by agents. You mean in M1 in the shoot-out when they return from the Oracle?

No. Cypher killed them. The police shot Mouse. I'm talking about Agent Smith unloading a clip in Neo's chest. And that shot that Agent Thompson gave Trinity on her way down.

CaptPostMod wrote:

I've asked that question too. The only answer I could present is that people are "adopted" in the Matrix. Though a mother may undergo an artificial pregnancy with-in the simulated world of the Matrix, the baby that is born to her is just one assigned from the fields, and not really hers. This is why nobody in the films not born in Zion is shown to have any familial connections. They all grew up with parents who weren't their's living lives that were just dreams.

i came in here with the obivous answer, then you all proved it was obvious, i was gonna say it had to do with the whole "i know why you live alone" thing that trin said