»The Choice of the Oracle.«

Quote:

Neo: You helped me to get here, but my question is why? Where does this go? Where does it end? Oracle: I don't know. Neo: You don't know or you won't tell me? Oracle: I told you before. No one can see beyond a choice they don't understand, and I mean no one. Neo: What choice? Oracle: It doesn't matter. It's my choice. I have mine to make, same as you have yours.

Is this the first time the Oracle says that she doesnt know an answer?

Anyway, my question is this: What choice did the Oracle make? What choice is she talking about?

Yeah im pretty sure she uses the "i dont know" as a ritorical sort of statement...she does know just doesnt want to be upfront. i think she said it in the first movie but iom not entirely sure

I thought the same, though some things still bother me.

She hasnt lied to Neo (has she?), instead, information was kept from him until he specifically called for it.

Im sure that there is some meaning behind this scene, rather than simply keeping information from him. But if so, what was her choice?

Ah, could her choice have been this: To stop guiding Neo toward his set destiny, and believe that he may bring peace to both worlds? This would explain her being shunned later in the movie, and the merovingians comments on her in Hell. From what we can tell, the machines in the matrix wanted out too, and to some degree the machines were not killing for the love of killing, or the hatred of humans. Perhaps the Oracle bagan to see in Neo's new path some hope of eventual peace?

Some of this may seem a little wrong, or odd...but I'm at work at the moment, and as such find it hard to use plenty of resourses to construct my point.

Why the problem with believing that the Oracle might not know something? What was Morpheus' response to Neo in M1 when Neo brought up the same issue of the Oracle's omniscience?

I have no problem with believing that the Oracle might not know something. What I am trying to understand is why she doesnt know, and what choice was made to lead her into unknowing.

Im not sure about everyone else, but personally I think that the Oracle (def:prophet: an authoritative person who divines the future) does not know something because she made a decision that she does not understand.

The answer is contained within the quote you gave. She stated that no one is able to see past a choice that he or she doesn't understand. So if the Oracle doesn't know something about the future, it's because that future event occurs after a choice she makes which she doesn't understand. But what choice does the Oracle make in M3 that she doesn't understand?

To narrow that down, just look at all the things we see her doing in M3 after she has that final discussion with Neo in her kitchen. Is there one major thing which she does later on deliberately and purposefully?

Well, what do you think? She makes two choices. Firstly, whatever her first one was, it resulted in her losing more than expected, as she says at the beginning of revolutions.

Secondly, she makes that choice that she doesnt fully understand. All I can think of, is the choice to allow Smith to take her over - she sits waiting purposefully for him to arrive, knowing he will be there.

The only other significant choice, though this may have been a spur-of-the-moment speech, was Smithacle saying 'everything has a beginning, has an end neo' Intersestingly, I think this is the first time Smith calls him neo too.

Do we know the choice she made or not? I'm very interested in this topic so I don't want to see it derail and slowly move off-topic.

Quote:

All I can think of, is the choice to allow Smith to take her over - she sits waiting purposefully for him to arrive, knowing he will be there. The only other significant choice, though this may have been a spur-of-the-moment speech, was Smithacle saying 'everything has a beginning, has an end neo' Intersestingly, I think this is the first time Smith calls him neo too.

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding! What do we have for him, Johnny! Absolutely right! Although instead of 2 choices, try to look at these as part of the same thing.

"I want the same thing as you, Neo and I'm willing to go as far as you...(cut to Smith copying over the Oracle...then cut to Smith copying over Neo)...to get it."

Plus "The only way to get there is together"

Thx.

th3 p4th wrote:

Plus "The only way to get there is together"

Oh my gosh, I'd never thought of that quote in that way. I'd always thought of it in more general terms, such as mankind working with machines. But it also applies specifically to the Oracle and Neo. Wonderful foreshadowing there. Great observation, th3 p4th!

Yeah, I never thought of that either th3 p4th, thanks

I'm interested in one thing, Neo: the future. And believe me, I know, the only way to get there is together.

Crisis Four wrote:

Anyway, my question is this: What choice did the Oracle make? What choice is she talking about?

She made the choice to put Neo on the Merv's heels. This pisses the Mero off. This is also why Neo is expected in LeVrai. The result was payback by the Merv which leads to the deal with Rama and her (the Oracle's) death and her resurrection with the help of Seraph and the reworking of her principles (cookies) by Sati.

How did Merv know what she had done?

Crisis Four wrote:

Anyway, my question is this: What choice did the Oracle make? What choice is she talking about?

The same one

"Only the most exceptional people become aware of the Matrix. Those that learn it exists must possess a rare degree of intuition (spirituality), sensitivity, and a questioning nature."

Intuition:

To just answer your question simply the conversation between Oracle & Niobe in ETM confirms..

NIOBE: What was the choice?

ORACLE: The same one that you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not

This is what the 'choice' is all about whether it’s indicative of the 'first One', Morpheus, Zionists, Exiles, Oracle, whoever, including Neo himself.

To help Neo or not

He becomes the reason and fulfilment of the Anomaly, attaining redemption for Humans and Machine-kind.

intell wrote:

How did Merv know what she had done?

Causality. He didn't KNOW until he saw the effect (Neo). He then knew the cause (the Oracle).

"Ah yes, Neo. We were expecting you."

Gina Rink wrote:

intell wrote: How did Merv know what she had done? Causality. He didn't KNOW until he saw the effect (Neo). He then knew the cause (the Oracle). "Ah yes, Neo. We were expecting you."

But how did he know Neo was coming in the first place? How did the Keymaker know?

intell wrote:

But how did he know Neo was coming in the first place? How did the Keymaker know?

This isn't the first place. It's the sixth.

Systems are made of processes. When it comes time to improve processes, it doesn't mean you change all the processes. Just the important ones and/or the ones that are not working.

This is going to be interesting

Which process would you consider Merovingian and Keymaker, one that is important or one that wasn't working?

intell wrote:

This is going to be interesting Which process would you consider Merovingian and Keymaker, one that is important or one that wasn't working?

The Merv (per se) is not part of the process. He's dragged into it by the Oracle (which is why he hates her). However, the keymaker is. But, neither were a part of the change.

The only process that changed was he had to be shown that humans would use "hope" as strength and not a crutch. He had to see that individuals made these decisions. Too bad the Wachowskis don't believe in hokey "flashback" scenes. It would have shown all the people who sacrificed or nearly sacrificed themselves for the hope of living in peace. Neo being their last hope.

Crisis Four wrote:

Anyway, my question is this: What choice did the Oracle make? What choice is she talking about?

I think it was her choice to wait for Smith to come and take her over. Was she able to keep Smith from figuring out that he shouldn't try to take over Neo but just kill him instead?

But that whole scenario was the result of other choices.

What if Bane had just killed Trinity and disabled the Logos? Even if Neo then killed Bane he would have been stuck there and unable to reach the Machine City and bargain with the machine to defeat Smith. It is a complex matrix of interactive choices.

Morpheus: Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.

Morpheus: Do you believe in fate, Neo?

Neo: No.

psikey

The Oracle is closely related in my view, to the source and spirit. She can't see everything because she remains an individual, wich means she is still making choices for herself, and thinking for herself. But more so then any other being, she seems connected to the "source" and this negation of ego you might say, allows her to "see the world without time". The source is everything, she's just further down the path to enlightenment then anyone else... "No I didn't, but I believed!" "You've made a believer out of me". She is putting her faith in Neo that he will resolve this thing, and that it will end in a way that will reach a new day... Sati... did you do that! For Neo.

God... I feel like Inev.. the most random throwing in of quotes... I don't like it but there it is, it's late enjoy.