»Same scene from M1 & M3«

That still bugs me.. When I first joined matrix-explained I was hoping for an answer to the following question or at least a comment. No One ever said anything about that. So after half a year being a matrix-explained member I start a thread with my question.

Note: The following images might not have the best quality because they come from a SVCD copy of "The Matrix" and a DiVX copy of "The Matrix Revolutions". Also I couldn't make the greek subtitles dissapear because they are "burned" with the video, and I don't have any option to remove them.

In the original Matrix Neo, Trinity, Morpheus and Cypher drive to Oracle's apartment so that she can check if he's the One.

In the Matrix Revolutions after Trinity rescues Neo from Mobil Avenue, Neo, Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph drive away so that they take Neo back to his body. But when they are in the car Neo says that he must see the Oracle for one last time. He can't just leave..

Now.. the question is.. has anyone noticed how similar these scenes are?

Here are some examples:

M1:

Considering that elderly woman(?) with white hair walking by the post in both films and what looks like the tail end of the same car I would guess they used footage from the same video session just edited somewhat differently rather than shoot another scene in a car.

Cost savings.

Admittedly, I never looked at them that closely before.

psikey

or maybe...

-maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right
-->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending

Wow. I have to admit, that is quite an observation.

Well, after thinking about it (for about fifteen minutes while rather drowsy), I have come up with two ideas. One is the idea of cycles in the trilogy. I guess that's kind of self-explanatory. The other is that Neo is going through another transformational, enlightening, self-realizing, whatever experience, but that he has progressed, and it is therefore not exactly the same.
I dunno, maybe I'll come up with something intelligent to say later.
Sorry.

First of all thank you guys for the response. I even noticed it at the cinema, I was shouting "Cool! The whole scene is the same!" But later when I tried to give an answer to "why?" I failed.

psikeyhackr wrote:

Cost savings.

Hm I don't think that's the reason. It doesn't cost to film some people walking by! And if you watch the whole scene at M3 just before Morpheus asks Link if he could see Neo, the camera films from the outside of the car. That shows us that they filmed some new content but for the inside of the car used some old.
Also why would they use the same music?

Nous wrote:

The other is that Neo is going through another transformational, enlightening, self-realizing, whatever experience, but that he has progressed, and it is therefore not exactly the same.

That's what I think too, but I am not sure!

Tsukasa wrote:

or maybe... -maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right -->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending

Maybe my post looks like one of T_F_O's but I don't like that idea.

What about the Seraph VS Cypher thing?

Don't listen to th3 p4th he is a pirate

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote:

Don't listen to th3 p4th he is a pirate

What do you mean?

I think he means that you probably downloaded the film, rather than buying it. Video piracy . Don't worry about it. The thing about Seraph replacing Cypher in the scene...are you sure it was Cypher driving? I always thought it was Apoc. Maybe I'm wrong.

No there are not downloaded. Few days earlier I ordered the 10 DVD boxset. Expect high quality full resolution screenshots from me.

It was Cypher. Here take a look.

Morpheus tells Apoc and Switch to wait there for an hour.

th3 p4th wrote:

Tsukasa wrote: or maybe... -maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right -->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending Maybe my post looks like one of T_F_O's but I don't like that idea.

Is It Really So Hard TO Believe? Forms Of Control Within Forms Of Control. Like Pandoras Box. Why Couldn't M2 and M3 Have Been Made To Make You Look Away From M1

Tsukasa wrote:

th3 p4th wrote: Tsukasa wrote: or maybe... -maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right -->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending Maybe my post looks like one of T_F_O's but I don't like that idea. Is It Really So Hard TO Believe? Forms Of Control Within Forms Of Control. Like Pandoras Box. Why Couldn't M2 and M3 Have Been Made To Make You Look Away From M1

Why would they? I find it meaningless. Pointless. Without a purpose. And as we both know.. without a purpose.. they wouldn't exist!

Tsukasa wrote:

or maybe... -maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right -->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending

I don't think that it's correct to see these three movies seperately. I think that these three films (the so called Matrix Trilogy) along with EtM and the episodes 'Sec Ren' (parts 1&2), 'Final Flight of the Osiris' and 'Kid's Story' from the Animatrix, all together form what we may call 'The Matrix'. (Also these episodes from the Animatrix are the only that have been created based on stories written by the Brothers.)

Because if you only watch the first movie and don't continue with the others.. you learn nothing.

You don't learn that the Oracle is a program.
You don't learn why Neo has the '101' at his apartment.
You don't learn how th3 p4th of the one ends.
You don't learn if Neo is succesful at his mission.
etc..

Every beginning has an end.

The scene in M1 is just before Neo's FIRST meeting with the Oracle. The scene in M3 is just before his LAST meeting with the Oracle. Neo has come full circle and has come to know himself and his place. He is ready to hear the things he wasn't ready to hear before. And although he originally hated the idea of fate and fought against his chosen role on the Path of the One (and successfully left that path when he chose the left door in the Architect's chamber), his higher Chosen Role on the Path of Neo was still a form of destiny. His sacrifice was the epitome of a free-will choice and fate all rolled up into one. He chose a higher path, but that choice was still destined.

As I've said in other posts, Neo is the Kwisatz Haderach (the messiah figure from the Dune story) who can go where the Bene Gesserit (a priestly order comprised entirely of females) cannot. They cannot see into the future, but the Kwisatz Haderach can. When Neo first visits the Oracle, he knows next to nothing. When he last visits the Oracle, he not only knows himself, but he knows where he must go (the vision of the three power lines leading to the Machine City). It is at this point that he has surpassed the Oracle in being able to see into the future.

The Oracle cannot see past the end of the Path of the One, but Neo can. She believes intuitively that Neo is the means by which the cycles can end, but she doesn't know how this will occur. At this point, she is no longer operating with the Sight (which is a source of actual knowledge of the future), but with Intuition. Like Niobe, she puts her faith in Neo which is demonstrated by her allowing Smith to take her over--a choice that she apparently doesn't understand since she can't see past it. We rarely understand the choices we make that are based on faith, and the Oracle is no different.

Feral Boy wrote:

Every beginning has an end. The scene in M1 is just before Neo's FIRST meeting with the Oracle. The scene in M3 is just before his LAST meeting with the Oracle.

Wrong. The scene from M3 is before his meeting with the Oracle just like M1's scene. As for the rest I agree.

Feral Boy wrote:

The scene in M3 is just before his LAST meeting with the Oracle.

th3 p4th wrote:

The scene from M3 is before his meeting with the Oracle

Hmm. Seems like we agree on this. So what is it that I'm wrong about?

And maybe you should "look away from M1."

Because that is the first hurdle overcome in the W-shaped plot sequence. (?)

th3 p4th wrote:

Tsukasa wrote: th3 p4th wrote: Tsukasa wrote: or maybe... -maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right -->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending Maybe my post looks like one of T_F_O's but I don't like that idea. Is It Really So Hard TO Believe? Forms Of Control Within Forms Of Control. Like Pandoras Box. Why Couldn't M2 and M3 Have Been Made To Make You Look Away From M1 Why would they? I find it meaningless. Pointless. Without a purpose. And as we both know.. without a purpose.. they wouldn't exist!

Meaningless?
How Is It Meaningless?
The Point Is That In Case A Person Breaks Through One Form Of Control, There Are More To Back It Up. Why Not Cover Enough Bases To ALMOST INSURED That No One Gets Out.

Feral Boy wrote:

Feral Boy wrote: The scene in M3 is just before his LAST meeting with the Oracle. th3 p4th wrote: The scene from M3 is before his meeting with the Oracle Hmm. Seems like we agree on this. So what is it that I'm wrong about?

I'm sorry.. somehow I thought you said AFTER! Hm.. it seems that the System still has some glitches..

Tsukasa wrote:

th3 p4th wrote: Tsukasa wrote: th3 p4th wrote: Tsukasa wrote: or maybe... -maybe THE_FIRST_ONE is right -->maybe m2 and m3 is an alternative ending Maybe my post looks like one of T_F_O's but I don't like that idea. Is It Really So Hard TO Believe? Forms Of Control Within Forms Of Control. Like Pandoras Box. Why Couldn't M2 and M3 Have Been Made To Make You Look Away From M1 Why would they? I find it meaningless. Pointless. Without a purpose. And as we both know.. without a purpose.. they wouldn't exist! Meaningless? How Is It Meaningless? The Point Is That In Case A Person Breaks Through One Form Of Control, There Are More To Back It Up. Why Not Cover Enough Bases To ALMOST INSURED That No One Gets Out.

I couldn't say it better:

intell wrote:

And maybe you should "look away from M1." Because that is the first hurdle overcome in the W-shaped plot sequence. (?)

Hey, if it was a perfect System, then it would be ruined as soon as the two of us became participants, right?

Feral Boy wrote:

Hey, if it was a perfect System, then it would be ruined as soon as the two of us became participants, right?

Bingo!

th3 p4th wrote:

Feral Boy wrote: Feral Boy wrote: The scene in M3 is just before his LAST meeting with the Oracle. th3 p4th wrote: The scene from M3 is before his meeting with the Oracle Hmm. Seems like we agree on this. So what is it that I'm wrong about? I'm sorry.. somehow I thought you said AFTER! Hm.. it seems that the System still has some glitches..

Talking About This To You Guys Is Like Talking To A Wall, You Are So Sure That You Are Right, That Your Not Even Gonna Try To Question Your Stance.

My Last Words On This Thread: Check The Timestamp At The End Of M1

From: scary-monsters.com... (I posted some sites with info about numbers, symbols, etc. here: matrix-explained.com...)

The film begins with:

Call trans opt: received 2-19-98 13:24:18 REC:Log>

Trace program running

(312) 555 0690

The end transmission is specifically:

Call trans opt: received 9-18-99 14:32:21 REC:Log>

WARNING: carrier anomaly

Trace program: running

System Failure



So what?

th3 p4th wrote:

From: scary-monsters.com... (I posted some sites with info about numbers, symbols, etc. here: matrix-explained.com...) The film begins with: Call trans opt: received 2-19-98 13:24:18 REC:Log> Trace program running (312) 555 0690 The end transmission is specifically: Call trans opt: received 9-18-99 14:32:21 REC:Log> WARNING: carrier anomaly Trace program: running System Failure So what?

What Is The Time Period of Revolutions?