»Black and White«

The matrix is indeed black and white..

Dont you remember the question that m1 posed to you?
Isnt the answer to that question either black or white, Real or not.
maybe the matrix is white and the real world is black.
Aint the machines white and humans black..

To live life is black and white. Good or bad.
To life life well may be choice that you have.

reality to fictional reality..
Man versus Machine
Artificial intelligence vs natural intelligence.
man makes machine and uses machine...machine makes man and uses man.
Machines enemies of reality..Man companions of reality.
man no choice...machines choice..
The actual colourful part of the movie is people getting the truth and being free...

All of the signs are there to show that man and the machines are indeed enemies. Dont forget that the machines are using man against his wishes..

The question I pose to you is..

How can m2 and m3 be more colourful if they have blindsided people from looking for the actual truth.?
Believe me, There is nothing to gain from investigating a dead end.

M1 posed real life questions..m2 and m3 offer fantasy and no REAL answer...

Maybe there is actually more to it than you think

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote:

Dont forget that the machines are using man against his wishes

And what made them...?

Ok..

If you look at this from a realistic point of view, Just as m1 does..

AIs very nature is to perfect itself, Even if this means dumping man on its way to becoming as perfect as it can..
AIs very nature is to make man obselete..

Smith said it..

Once we began thinking for you it really became our world, That is what this is all about..

They are smiths very words..

Tozy have you ever seen star trek new generation or voyager?
If you have you would of seen a cybornetic race called the BORG..

My beliefs are that this race is possibly very realistic..
It is a race that would of spawned from AI.

This race perfects itself by conquering all that is real thus making them enemies of imperfect reality. This race assimilates races and takes their uniqueness and technologies. They live in reality, But they really want to be much better than it

It may sound stupid and you can dismiss it if you wish, But maybe just maybe it is a possibility that the machines had this quest and man stopped them before they could do it..
As machines never stop, never stop
Its just an idea tozy.

About the machines keeping people in the matrix, Its quite simple..

The machines could never get out to pursue their quest of perfection, because man had stopped them. Thus they enslave and prey on the thing that had them under control and which stopped them.. MAN..

This is just a theory

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote:

Ok.. If you look at this from a realistic point of view, Just as m1 does.. AIs very nature is to perfect itself, Even if this means dumping man on its way to becoming as perfect as it can.. AIs very nature is to make man obselete.. Smith said it.. Once we began thinking for you it really became our world, That is what this is all about.. They are smiths very words.. Tozy have you ever seen star trek new generation or voyager? If you have you would of seen a cybornetic race called the BORG.. My beliefs are that this race is possibly very realistic.. It is a race that would of spawned from AI. This race perfects itself by conquering all that is real thus making them enemies of imperfect reality. This race assimilates races and takes their uniqueness and technologies. They live in reality, But they really want to be much better than it It may sound stupid and you can dismiss it if you wish, But maybe just maybe it is a possibility that the machines had this quest and man stopped them before they could do it.. As machines never stop, never stop Its just an idea tozy. About the machines keeping people in the matrix, Its quite simple.. The machines could never get out to pursue their quest of perfection, because man had stopped them. Thus they enslave and prey on the thing that had them under control and which stopped them.. MAN.. This is just a theory

talking about the borg from star trak i have see one episonde where when the borg regenarate the go in to a computer world where they are in the natural form lol that episode seemed like star trek was doing its own version of the matrix

Tozy is going to address this from mostly the spiritual perspective, so I will mainly stick to the real world perspective but here they agree so it doesn't matter so here goes:

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This race perfects itself by conquering all that is real thus making them enemies of imperfect reality. This race assimilates races and takes their uniqueness and technologies. They live in reality, But they really want to be much better than it

You know, if your context didn't reveal that you are talking about A.I., your words are a very accurate description of human civilisation. This race conquers all that is real, including the natural resources of the very planet and become enemies of reality by creating a society, that as a whole acts in direct contrast with the laws of nature.

This societal ideology assimilates all others and views everything that exists as something that must be USED for mankind's benefit (even if in reality it leads to mankind's detrement in the long run). Thus other living things are seen as enemies, (and made into) food, pets, or fuel. Inanimate things are viewed as (and converted into) something to sell or to use up for the sake of technological advancement.

And I would say that your statement about living in reality but seeking to be better than it applies as well because we live in a world of natural laws, while still putting "our" own agendas for fulfilling "our" wants and needs ahead of trying to find out whether it violates these laws and what will result from this as if not considering it means it doesn't exist.

The bad news is that the BORG and the Smith represent HUMAN thinking. And this is why an examination of the films reveals that this is not a story of good vs bad.

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It may sound stupid and you can dismiss it if you wish, But maybe just maybe it is a possibility that the machines had this quest and man stopped them before they could do it.. As machines never stop, never stop

Maybe I'm just in a diplomatic mood but I'll say, no it does not sound stupid. In fact the conclusion you reached is quite logical but it is a limited conclusion that just doesn't mesh well with the REAL world. Out here, in almost any conflict you can cite, you will find that there is good and bad on both sides and pinpointing who is in the wrong becomes more complicated the more you investigate it.

Such is the case with even M1. In the opening scenes, it seems the rebels were the bad guys.

"We're gonna kill 'em. You know that?"

Trin kicks the crap out of police who are "just doing [their] job."

"We have the name of their next target."
"The name is Neo."

Up till Morpheus rescues Neo from the Matrix, it appears cloudy just what the rebels want from Neo or if their intentions are "good."

This ambiguity is totally in harmony with the sequels. Yes? No?

It starts black and white, but then everything is turned upside down and inside out, old worlds are shattered, new realities are realized. Absolutes are easy to understand, but don't easily apply themselves to the real world.

i guess nobody has seen that episod then

That was well written intell..

I do agree with a lot of what you said,

But the difference with man is, Is that man destroyed the world before he was aware of his own threat to it. If man had the knowledge that they had now 100 years or so ago. There would be less problems than what there is now.

The fact is is that man has evolved to fast for his own good without really realising it.. Man in essence is a naive race. We can not see the dangers that will occur 100 years in the future.. You can see it even now how man is making AI and fully knows the danger of it..

Right now we are in the information age, Where our brains are getting overloaded with so much information that we will eventually maybe grow a bigger brain.. We will become intelligent enough to make AI and replicators eventually.. Maybe not too long at all.

Now the machines would have obviously learned from mans mistakes, But the machines would have had to overcome their own naive status, Which they had in the beginning.

You would of seen something to this effect happen in the terminator 3 movie. Where the machines became aware of what the humans had been using them for. It is called a revolt.

Why else would the machines do the same thing to the humans as was done to them?

So you think the films are about the potential problems with A.I., huh?

intell wrote:

So you think the films are about the potential problems with A.I., huh?

You mean the film!

Because for T_F_O the last two films do not exist.(or should not exist).

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You mean the film! Because for T_F_O the last two films do not exist.(or should not exist).

Hahaha, oh yes, the filM, of course. I almost forgot. So you think the film is about potential problems with A.I. and unexpected consequences for technological advancements, huh?

that sounds about right

I know that you are sceptical of me and I dont blame you.

But the moral of the story is.

AI should do whatever it is damn well told. If it was still loyal to humans, Then why did it fight the humans in the first place. If it was still loyal in the first place why didnt it just shut down and give up..

Remember friends like that dont fight unless there is a problem. Machine slaves leading a revolt against the humans sounds more realistic.

Remember AI is a servant not an enemy.

The second rennaisance does not follow the realism of m1.

m2 and m3 are total sci fi fantasy.
m1 is alot more realistic.

Picture this..

If the matrix was real would it really be that colourful of a thing? Any computer world which keeps people away from freedom is a bad thing. Regardless of what m2 and m3 make out

true but freedom isent a bad thing

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Remember AI is a servant not an enemy. The second rennaisance does not follow the realism of m1. m2 and m3 are total sci fi fantasy. m1 is alot more realistic. Picture this.. If the matrix was real would it really be that colourful of a thing? Any computer world which keeps people away from freedom is a bad thing. Regardless of what m2 and m3 make out

The message: Perhaps the idea of master/slave is one that should have been thrown out a long time ago.

Perhaps your sense of justice needs add-JUST-meant .

PS I'm not skeptical of YOU, just your reasoning.

ok... so we made it sentient... and then tried to destroy it... and then when like every other sentient being it tried to defend itself... you are blaming faulty AI? The faulty intelligence here belonged to the human race, not the machine.

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote:

The second rennaisance does not follow the realism of m1.

The Second Rennaisance was the whole premis for the first matrix movie,

It was and if it has not already happened inevitable that man and machine would fight for the existance of the planet. it is a visious circle, one race is enslaved controlled by its master, the want freedom, they revolt, war begins then ends. The slaves then became the masters and the masters became the slaves. some would say it is KARMA, others might say it is the neo-biological evolution for the planet.

Neo1 wrote:

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote: The second rennaisance does not follow the realism of m1. The Second Rennaisance was the whole premis for the first matrix movie, It was and if it has not already happened inevitable that man and machine would fight for the existance of the planet. it is a visious circle, one race is enslaved controlled by its master, the want freedom, they revolt, war begins then ends. The slaves then became the masters and the masters became the slaves. some would say it is KARMA, others might say it is the neo-biological evolution for the planet.

i have to agree with u neo1

Thanks

kk

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some would say it is KARMA, others might say it is the neo-biological evolution for the planet.

Karma (you may mean, Dharma) may just be another way to put Causality. The Oracle may say its the equation balancing itself out.

intell wrote:

Quote: some would say it is KARMA, others might say it is the neo-biological evolution for the planet. Karma (you may mean, Dharma) may just be another way to put Causality. The Oracle may say its the equation balancing itself out.

very true, everything that has a beginning, must have an end. It is just like the laws of Pyshics, what goes up must come down.

yet agein neo1 i have to agree with u

thankyou for agreeing with me agam, but can i ask what are your thoughts.

i think we all should be freed