»Ghosts, Vampires and Werewolves«

Here is yet another question that I have been unable to solve with support that compels me in one direction or another... there only seems to be blind speculation in all directions.

We know that ghosts (twins), vampires (Cain & Abel) and werewolves (from Enter the Matrix) are from "a much older version of the Matrix", presumably from the Architect's "grotesquery" Matrix version (second version) that failed, and these supernatural beings were all scheduled for deletion because they "caused more problems than they solved".

We know the Oracle's solution of choice (whether this means offering external options/real alternatives as Feral has recently argued, or simply allowing choice to exist) is what allowed the supernaturals to go into exile.

But hold on.

These "supernatural" or "grotesque" programs were part of a Matrix that offered no alternatives. They were part of a Matrix that did not allow programs to refuse deletion.

So, we're (or at least I'm) left to wonder how in the world these grotesqueries made it far enough to get to the third version of the Matrix, the Oracle's version, so that they COULD choose exile. Supportable theories, anyone?

Surprised wrote:

These "supernatural" or "grotesque" programs [...] were part of a Matrix that did not allow programs to refuse deletion.

Where did you get that from? I would say that your assumption is wrong and therefore your conculusion is wrong as well.

They work for Merv. Whatever it is that he does to survive as an exile from version to version he probably does to them two. No point in having power if you have noone to lord over.

Starcrow - Where I am getting it from: Persephone says that Cain & Abel come from a "much older" version of the Matrix. Clearly she's not talking about the 5th, 4th, or even 3rd version or she wouldn't have used the phrase "much older". So I pose the question to you: If these "grotesqueries" are not part of the grotesqueries that the Architect speaks of (regarding his second failed Matrix before the Oracle came into the picture), which is a "much older" version of the Matrix, then what is your explanation for which version of the Matrix they came from? "They caused more problems than they solved." What problem could vampires introduced by the system possibly be trying to solve, if you say they were not created as part of the pain and suffering that various "grotesqueries" of human nature brought about?

Prometheus: Yes, they probably all survive by placing their consciousness outside of the Matrix during system restarts, and the trainman gets them back in by rebuilding Mobil Ave. each time. But regardless, what I'm asking is not referring to what they do from one version to the next - I'm asking what they did from a version without choice (and therefore without exiles) - the Architect's second Matrix failure - to the very first Matrix under the Oracle's model of choice.

I'm going to try to be of some help, although I may just end up muddling the picture more than it already is. The problem is that I'm in the process of trying to get a more complete picture of the past history of the Matrix. The video game The Matrix Online has been offering some very juicy tidbits in this regard, via the Pandora's Boxes.

To the best of my knowledge, the Pandora's Boxes are like gateways to the Merovingian's prison constructs, and he has in his possession artifacts and Exile programs that are left over from previous versions of the Matrix. There are angel agents, warrior monk agents and soldier agents, all of which were prototypes to the current "suit" agents we see in the movies. They each lived in a version of the Matrix that was unique--the angels presided over the paradise version, the warrior monk agents presided over a feudal Japan version, and the soldier agents presided over a version that was very similar to the current 1999 version, but from a slightly earlier era in human history.

Now how the feudal Japan and pre-1999 version fit in to our current understanding of the Matrix versions, I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out. And so far I haven't seen a description of the Middle Ages version, although I keep hearing about its existence.

The key to the whole thing is the Merovingian. Somehow he found a way to survive every time a completely new version of the Matrix was created--which is different than a simple reload within the same version. Accounts are still a little sketchy, and without playing the game anymore, I now depend on the kind-hearted actions of current players to feed me information. It's been slow-going, but I hope to report back to you all a much larger and richer description of things that we've all been debating about for some time. There are more things I've heard about than what I've detailed here, but I haven't been able to verify them. So until I know the truth on matters, I think it would cause more confusion to present them here if they end up being untrue.

Stay tuned, true believers!

Until that time...

I will say that even if the assumption is accurate, I disagree with the conclusion.

The introduction of choice was for human acceptance of the program/matrix only. This has nothing to do with programs choosing exile. Merovingian himself seems to have come from the Machine world and may have been around even before a Matrix was constructed. All in all, programs were given the option of deletion or exile once a place to be exiled to became available (vis-a-vis the matrix) The question is whether they had an option before that.