»Questions to Ponder about Neo, Source, etc.«

As usual, I'm interested in everyone's theories, speculation and especially support for answers to some interesting questions...

Is the One killed during the "temporary dissemination" of the code, and then recreated to start the next Zion?

If dissemination of code temporarily kills the One, what do you think the machines do in order to:
a) get the One's physical body away from rebels before the One's physical body dies beyond the point of repair, and
b) reestablish Neo's RSI to his physical body in the real world so he can go about freeing the first 23 Zionists?

If dissemination of code does not kill the One, how would you describe this dissemination process and its purpose?

I have my own theory about dissemination that I've never read anywhere before but I don't want to steer anyone in any particular direction - I'd like to start everyone with a blank slate.

FeralBoy wrote:

The Path of the One leads to the Architect, where the One makes a choice to accept the programming of the Matrix. The One makes this choice on behalf of all those who made the "wrong" choice in the past. He is able to stand on behalf of the 1% because their rejections have been applied to him. This acceptance of the Matrix in effect cancels out all the rejections and temporarily brings the programming of the Matrix to 100% acceptance.

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Is the One killed during the "temporary dissemination" of the code, and then recreated to start the next Zion?

Not necessarily. But it stands to reason that he is not around for too long after that. The Arc's words and the Oracle's prophecy give that impression.

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a) get the One's physical body away from rebels before the One's physical body dies beyond the point of repair, and

He's still on the Nebuchadnezzar.

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b) reestablish Neo's RSI to his physical body in the real world so he can go about freeing the first 23 Zionists?

An exit at the Source after the selection process, perhaps.

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If dissemination of code does not kill the One, how would you describe this dissemination process and its purpose?

Sounds like taking something from him to lead to the next One, when it is necessary for that one to arrive again.

In another sense, it is the Architect's way of saying that for once, Neo has to make a choices in harmony with the system of control rather than fighting against it. (temporarily disseminating the code = dropping the rebellious tendencies for a moment) Then reinserting the prime program (returning the matrix to harmony) and then the selection of 23 (who may or may not be anomalous).

*passing the mic again*

Great answers, intell. When you mentioned an exit at the Source, it reminded me of something that for some odd reason I never noticed until I'd watched Reloaded a few times. And that is the fact that just before Neo enters the Architect's room, the Keymaker gives Morpheus a key that will lead his RSI back to his physical body just like a phonebooth would. Don't know why I never clued into that, but there you go. So like you said, there could easily be an exit at the Source similar to that. Instead of putting a phone to his ear, the One would walk through a door.

As for whether or not Neo dies by disseminating the code, how is he going to choose 23 people to rebuild the Matrix if he's dead? Although I think I get the reason you're asking, which comes from thinking this whole process through logically. You picture Neo doing all the stuff the Architect tells him to. He's got people who are rebuilding Zion. But what is he supposed to do now? His purpose has been completed and all that's left for him to do on the Path of the One is to die. Pretty depressing, especially when you think about what must be going through his head. He may have saved all the humans still plugged into the Matrix, but in turn he allowed a quarter of a million people to die. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't exactly be feeling like a messiah at that point.

Also, what keeps him from spilling the beans--especially when he's close to dying from old age and doesn't give a crap anymore? He'd obviously be in a position of authority and might be believed if he told enough people about what's really going on. Would the Architect risk that?

Seems more likely that the One's death is always staged. It's never told whether or not the Ones always die from old age. So it's very possible that their death is always staged, such as a swarm of squiddies taking out their ship, or an Uber Agent (a la the Path of Neo video game ending) stepping on the One, or anything like that. It might even be that the One's death is scheduled to happen almost immediately after the 23 individuals are trained and starting the rebuilding of Zion. I lean more in that direction, just because it "sounds exactly like the thinking of a Machine to me."

As for your question about what happens at the dissemination, the word disseminate means in a general sense to make widely known and in a specific sense to disperse or spread abroad as sowing seed. The latter definition makes more sense to me, as I can't imagine the Architect wanting to do anything with this code (the collected rejections of the 1%) other than to destroy it. That's what happens to things that end up at the Source--they get deleted. As I've said in numerous posts, it's like accountants writing off bad debt at the end of an accounting period. Where does it go? To the Big Nowhere. It's gone, baby. See ya later. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

I don't see any proof that the Architect studies this code before it gets deleted, as I've heard many say in these forums. My theory is that this code reveals nothing as to the original person's reason for rejecting the Matrix. It's simply a yes/no code that says "no". It's a wrong choice. It's bad code. Each person's anomalous code looks the same as everybody else's. There's nothing to study, and all that's left is to get rid of it. But even if I'm wrong, the end result is still the same--it gets deleted.

Another nice post Feral boy

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I don't see any proof that the Architect studies this code before it gets deleted, as I've heard many say in these forums. My theory is that this code reveals nothing as to the original person's reason for rejecting the Matrix. It's simply a yes/no code that says "no". It's a wrong choice. It's bad code. Each person's anomalous code looks the same as everybody else's. There's nothing to study, and all that's left is to get rid of it. But even if I'm wrong, the end result is still the same--it gets deleted.

The Code might contain some hint to "why" the answer was "no".

Starcrow makes a good point. The one track minded Arc made a "perfect" matrix once. When it didn't work, he took it to the other extreme as if there was no in-between ground. When that didn't work, someone told him about "choices" which doesn't make sense to him. He's perfect and so is his worldview. Who would ever "choose" to act outside of it? So he labels all that do an anomaly. So maybe each time a ONE goes through the path and Zion is destroyed, Arc learns a bit more about what other options are out there that he gave no previous consideration for. Oh, and more screens get installed in his office. Hehe.

And Feral, I like your bad debt write off comparison. It fits.

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Oh, and more screens get installed in his office. Hehe.

I think 'dying' in this context is very abstract. When the dissemination of The One is mentioned, I always get as vision of Neo's RSI literally breaking apart into it's element code, but that is only a visual representation of what is happening.

Lets think about the order of things for a minute:

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"The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals"

1) The One enters the Source
2) The Code he is carrying is disseminated (decompiled)
3) The Prime Program is reinserted
4) The One chooses the rebuilders of Zion.

So, looking at what Archie says, we can presume that the entirity of Neo's code (his being) is not broken down (decompiled) and therefore he can still function. The code that is disseminated is simply the code to provide the function of the reinsertion of the Prime Program.

We can also presume that The One survives the reinsertion of the Prime Program (which does not create conflict as there is no anomaly in the Prime Program yet) and so can set the Prime Program in motion with the choice of the rebuilders.

After that The One's fate is uncertain, I believe that the rest of his being is decompiled and is then stored in The Source until the time is right for the next anomaly to arise. Although I am welcome to any other ideas about this stage.

Hope this help.

* Arch says of his attempts to create a functioning Matrix failed, so miserably he only tried twice.

* Oracle stumbled (‘apparently’) upon a solution that he vaguely references, due to not really understand the ‘solution’ in the first place, not least by his use of the word ‘function’ and especially as he references its fundamentally being flawed as causing this "systemic anomaly that if left unchecked threatened the system itself. " No small thing.

Nah.. I’d say this dissemination of the Code, which is also referenced to Zion ~ "ergo those that refused the program constitute an escalating probability of disaster" is pretty dam important in tackling. Not that He does anything with it, just sort of diffuses it, for the time being.

Even the One doesn’t really know what he’s there for and Neo only finds out later. So what exactly does the previous Ones say to the new reconstituted Zionist’s and how does he explain something he doesn’t even really understand himself?

Back to the Oracle I guess and the continued Hope contained in the Prophecy emanating from Zion’s core.

Even now after the path of the one has been completed the Oracle further enlightens a bereft but strengthened Morpheus that the Thing he dared dream of ~Neo did. 'Impossible' she said, further pointing to the rabbit hole being deeper than even He had anticipated, since he had thought that dream had gone up in flames with the Neb.

So looking to the Arc as to what was going on was like looking at a potentially frightened machine core unable to predict or even begin to really understand just what he was trying to deal with. Guess that’s why he called it an anomaly.

Inevitability wrote:

So what exactly does the previous Ones say to the new reconstituted Zionist’s

Who says that The One has to have any contact with the new Zionists. Their memories can simply be doctored by the Machines to make them think anything they want, real or not. (More likely to be unreal, as I believe that the 23 original Zionists are those who sit on the Council of Zion, and so if t he Council knew about The One's task and purpose, then they would most likely tell Zion, even if they had been instructed not to)

xInfinityx wrote:

Inevitability wrote: So what exactly does the previous Ones say to the new reconstituted Zionist’s Who says that The One has to have any contact with the new Zionists. Their memories can simply be doctored by the Machines to make them think anything they want, real or not. (More likely to be unreal, as I believe that the 23 original Zionists are those who sit on the Council of Zion, and so if t he Council knew about The One's task and purpose, then they would most likely tell Zion, even if they had been instructed not to)

If the One didn't have some contact with the new Zionists, how is it that they knew that "He" freed the first of them and to look for his return for hope/fulfillment of prophecy? But as Inev said, what could he tell them, when he doesn't even know where all this is going?

inevitability wrote:

* Arch says of his attempts to create a functioning Matrix failed, so miserably he only tried twice. * Oracle stumbled (‘apparently’) upon a solution that he vaguely references, due to not really understand the ‘solution’ in the first place, not least by his use of the word ‘function’ and especially as he references its fundamentally being flawed as causing this "systemic anomaly that if left unchecked threatened the system itself. " No small thing. Nah.. I’d say this dissemination of the Code, which is also referenced to Zion ~ "ergo those that refused the program constitute an escalating probability of disaster" is pretty dam important in tackling. Not that He does anything with it, just sort of diffuses it, for the time being. Even the One doesn’t really know what he’s there for and Neo only finds out later. So what exactly does the previous Ones say to the new reconstituted Zionist’s and how does he explain something he doesn’t even really understand himself? Back to the Oracle I guess and the continued Hope contained in the Prophecy emanating from Zion’s core. Even now after the path of the one has been completed the Oracle further enlightens a bereft but strengthened Morpheus that the Thing he dared dream of ~Neo did. 'Impossible' she said, further pointing to the rabbit hole being deeper than even He had anticipated, since he had thought that dream had gone up in flames with the Neb. So looking to the Arc as to what was going on was like looking at a potentially frightened machine core unable to predict or even begin to really understand just what he was trying to deal with. Guess that’s why he called it an anomaly.

I've always said it: This guy is DEEP!

Since no one has yet metioned this minor detail, it has to be said... the architect says, "allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, re-inserting the prime program." He doesn't die, he doesn't even change in any way whatsoever. The one, is by design interested in the continuation of the human species, and no doubt the Oracle helps him come to terms with what has happened and his best course of action. I don't think you need to murder him or give him a termination date or anything like that... he will simply die of age. Why doesn't he tell everyone? Well... why didn't the Oracle tell Neo everything... why didn't she tell him the truth... "it wasn't time for you to know." who decides that?... you know who... Temet Nosce. Actually I think he or the Oracle do give some minor to major details to certain important individuals who are capable of knowing... (council members). That is of course my own opinion, so take it or leave it.

hexediter wrote:

Actually I think he or the Oracle do give some minor to major details to certain important individuals who are capable of knowing... (council members). That is of course my own opinion, so take it or leave it.

"It was he who...taught us the truth. As long as the matrix exists, the human race will never be free."

And of course there's the fact that the code that gets disseminated is only carried by the One. It does not comprise the One. It's like a backpack that the One unstraps and dumps into the Source. So while the backpack is disseminated, the One is untouched. And as intell said, he then probably leaves through a door that acts like a phonebooth, bringing the One's RSI back to his body.

I guess I had wanted to pont out that no one really knows what 'Neo' is (much less the previous Ones), "I have absolutly no idea how you are able to some of the things you do" - Counciler Hamman. "Just what the hell is happening to me" (Neo M3).

If the Oracle had said there was a 'time' for things to be known (as Hex pointed out) and that was largly dependant upon oneself, then explaining previous encounters with the 'Architect' (door made of light) and other privy knowledge attained by those so enlightened, whould have been much harder passing on espesialy not having undergone this process of "altered conciousness" themselves. So trying to make sence of their encounters/experiences to less enlightened (most zionist's) would hhave been very difficult to explain in a way that made any real sence, espesialy as they were only learning themselves. Remember Neo had only achived key stage 1 in asking the primary question... "why am I here". And that as we have learned was attained much slower by the others.

So i really think that much was yet to be revealed and whatever confusion and difficulty (same attack we have defended for years) was experienced, what burned at Zions core was the kind of hot burning coals of hope/faith stired up in the likes of Morpheus's speech (M2).

The real key is when Neo attaines pressence to the Source in the real world (touches sentinals) and the full weight of its force is felt and deeply expressed symbolicaly within the coming of the Hammer.

Inev, I remember you talking about the Hammer way back in MxO's original forum, but I never got involved in those conversations. Would you be so kind as to explain its significance?

Also, in regard to what Neo is, I have to admit that a mere technical explanation feels somewhat void of meaning. Although I really do believe in what I say about there being a separateness between Neo and that which he carries, the Architect doesn't really describe it that way. He describes Neo's LIFE as being the sum of the remainder of an unbalanced equation. He also says that in Neo the fundamental flaw is EXPRESSED. In MxO, he describes the One as the integral anomaly, which means that the rejections of the Matrix made by the 1% are not just something he carries, it's like they're part of him.

Oddly enough, despite all this evidence I am reluctant to embrace it. Perhaps it's my Christian upbringing, where I was taught that the sins are separate from the savior. The messiah is defined by his righteousness, not the failures of others. But perhaps I'm just missing the point.

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where I was taught that the sins are separate from the savior. The messiah is defined by his righteousness, not the failures of others. But perhaps I'm just missing the point.

Daniel chapter 9

Nonetheless, that is why the savior comes. It takes a corresponding ransom to cover the debt owed.

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Inev, I remember you talking about the Hammer way back in MxO's original forum, but I never got involved in those conversations. Would you be so kind as to explain its significance?

Uh oh. Shall we?

Daniel chapter 2

"IT IS DONE"

Daniel and Revelation are two books of the Bible that I study the most, because I'm a total end-times junkie! So you can imagine how you piqued my interested by quoting Daniel (not once, mind you, but TWICE)!

Anyway, Daniel 9 is famous for its Seventy Weeks and Daniel 2 is famous for Nebuchadnezzar's Dream Image. In relation to the Hammer as it pertains to Daniel 2, I am assuming you are referring to the image being destroyed by the rock which grew into a mountain. And in relation to the messiah's connection to sin, I am assuming you're referring to all things being completed (including the end of transgression) by the end of the Seventy Weeks. Good stuff, intell.

Although I personally don't believe that from a prophetic standpoint that the image has been destroyed or that the seventy weeks have been completed, I think I understand the point you're trying to make. Let me know if I'm missing it, though.

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Anyway, Daniel 9 is famous for its Seventy Weeks and Daniel 2 is famous for Nebuchadnezzar's Dream Image. In relation to the Hammer as it pertains to Daniel 2, I am assuming you are referring to the image being destroyed by the rock which grew into a mountain. And in relation to the messiah's connection to sin, I am assuming you're referring to all things being completed (including the end of transgression) by the end of the Seventy Weeks. Good stuff, intell.

Quite right. Interesting. I always knew you were quicker than [some of] the others. Lol!

Morpheus's statement about having a dream and now the dream being gone from him is probably a direct quote from some version of Daniel 2:3 that I haven't read yet. It occurs after the destruction of the Neb and then some things happen and some things are said before the Hammer comes. I will say more but I'll let Inev come in with some of his usual profundity first. I have those mxo threads related to this in my archives.

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I'm a total end-times junkie!

That's because you're probably fed up, too!

Feral Boy wrote:

Daniel 9 is famous for its Seventy Weeks

Wow! that adds even more weight to what was occiring in relation to 777 etc, ay intell? never noticied that. theres always more. Wach-Bro's said Neb was a refrence to the book of daniel, pointing out it being specific to what's happaening in that book (even though Neb is mentioned in other books in the Bible).

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In relation to the Hammer as it pertains to Daniel 2, I am assuming you are referring to the image being destroyed by the rock which grew into a mountain.

obviously that's one of the biggest revelations and profoundly appears as seen here etc

That it does.

So, Feral Boy, there's so much that can be revealed about how the events that occur after Neo leaves the Architect in Rel. set the tone for the Revolutions.

Inevitability wrote:

but there is much to go into and explain and i dont know how many here are interested as it takes quite a bit of work to do.

I'm interested!

intell wrote:

So, Feral Boy, there's so much that can be revealed about how the events that occur after Neo leaves the Architect in Rel. set the tone for the Revolutions.

I'm interested!

P.S. I'm interested!

Okay, Inev. We have One vote.

I have those old threads archived if you want me to retreive anything.

*standing by to transmit*

Here I am again, being the party pooper... but I can't help myself. I won't deny that I find many "end times" books and prophecies to be interesting and entertaining, but when considering our own culture (America) I fear greatly how these idea's may be helping to shape some of our policy dicisions as a nation... which to say the least I don't find encouraging. Make no mistake, I want change in our world, but I don't want the destuction of the world to be the neccissary catyalist for that change.

America is unique, for those of you who don't know already, this is the most religious, industrialized country in the entire world. Nearly 80% of Americans consider themselves Christians... and around 20% believe the apocalypse will come within the next 50 years. And to top it all off... our president thinks that god himself wanted him to be president... rational thought and debate seems to be fleeting, although Shrub's approval rating is pretty low right now... so I suppose that is mildly encouraging.

To me... the Hammer has only had meaning in regards to it's relationship to the Logos. And I have always found it odd that Inev and Intell always seemed more excited about the hammer and what it may represent. Two ships, two directions. What do you bring to the machines... the hammer? or logos? The word?... or destruction? The Logos has always been far more important to me in it's meaning and what it meant to bring it to the machine city... especially in light of the "alienated spirit" idea.

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And I have always found it odd that Inev and Intell always seemed more excited about the hammer and what it may represent.

You gotta love Hex. And its not party pooping. I want to hear more of your views about this as we continue.

The Mjolnir is said to return to whoever throws it.
The Mjolnir (Hammer) is the only ship to return to Zion.

"My word (greek, "Logos") will not return without results."
And I don't need to show how this relates to Zion, do I,