»Why did the Merovingian try to kill Neo?«

Assuming that the Merovingian knows about the One's role in keeping the Matrix stable, why would he try to kill him? When I watch the scene in his chateau where he orders his men to kill Neo, he doesn't seem to be doing it for show. In fact, he seems to be surprised when Neo survives as well as a little disappointed. I just can't believe that someone like the Merovingian would either a) not know about the importance of the One to keep the Matrix stable or b) know about it but risk throwing it all away just to put on a good show. I'm hoping for a third option that explains his actions a little better. This has always been one of those points that never got explained to my satisfaction.

The Merovogian thrives on the status quo. By eliminating the one, he is rest assured of his kingdom within the matrix. Just my thoughts...

Neophyte Awake wrote:

The Merovogian thrives on the status quo. By eliminating the one, he is rest assured of his kingdom within the matrix. Just my thoughts...

The exact opposite is true. The Merovingian's power resides within the Matrix. He needs the Matrix to continue running for him to keep the empire he's built for himself. If the Matrix crashes, he loses everything. The One keeps the Matrix from crashing. He undoes the damage caused by 1% of the population rejecting the Matrix, which creates a glitch that will eventually cause the Matrix to crash. Only the One can fix this. And assuming that the Merovingian knows all this (which I just can't imagine him NOT knowing it), then he would know that it's in his best interest to keep the One alive and allow him to continue on the Path of the One unobstructed.

The most that I can imagine the Merovingian doing is holding the One ransom to gain more power, and we see a little bit of that when Neo got trapped in Mobil Ave. train station. But trying to kill him? I just don't get it.

I see your point but do not totally agree. I think it is a semantic difference between "crash" and "reload." My impression is the Merovogian does not wish a re-boot, although he can deal with it; however, as you adequately pointed out, a crash would destroy everyone. The previous Ones indeed reloaded the system. From that perspective, the Mervovogian had no reason to believe Neo would do any different than his predecessors. In other words...The Merovongian wishes to delay the re-load, but not a crash. His kingdom, residing in the Matrix, would have to be built from scratch after each reload. This of course is all conjecture, but quite enjoyable to discuss.

I think his concern is indeed his empire and his army of exiles.

During a reload, exiles that are unprotected will get wiped out.

I am not sure if he knows that the One can provide the 'bugfix' to the Matrix stability.

As far as the Merovigian is concerned he only understands cause and effect. He believes that everything inside the Matrix is control. So he may not be aware of the anomalous problem concerning true free will.

Maybe he thinks that the One is a tool to wipe the Matrix clean after years of 'pollution' by various exiles. Hell, maybe he might even think that Smith is some sort of super exile and that the One is there to stop him.

I mean, if even the Architect cannot see beyond his choices, then surely the Merovigian can?

Another explanation could be that he wants the Matrix to simply fail, because it is an initiation of the more supreme Oracle --> "run back to the fortune teller and tell her that her time (her Matrix version?) is almost up".

I liked your last thought, but would it not just produce an upgraded Oracle for Mero to be that much more envious over. Still good idea...

why does Mero want the eyes of the oracle so much? why not the power of the one?

Neophyte Awake wrote:

I liked your last thought, but would it not just produce an upgraded Oracle for Mero to be that much more envious over. Still good idea...

Clearly older programs are more powerful than newer ones, as Persephone describes Cain and Abel. Merv and Orckie and Archie, all the oldest of programs. I think Merv was delusional through his power in thinking he could take out the Oracle personally. I don't think they could reproduce her either.

Meanwhile, Mobil's exp. was very good.

The One is the eventuality of the anomaly, inevitably existent as long as the programming of the matrix gives choice to its captives. That to me however is not to say the eventuality is not controlled. The prime program is the Path of the One. Some believe the One pops up at total random at some given moment and the machines have to be ready for him and they have to feed him to the resistence. I don't believe that.

I believe the machines plant the prime program into a human who will be in a good position to learn of the matrix, who will essentially be a hacker (as Trinity indicates in an early draft of M1). The eventuality doesn't disappear or dissolve if the One is killed. The machines would plant it again in another human and let him follow the path. The original script also indicates that Morpheus had freed many men, thinking they were the One (Cypher was one of these). Perhaps indeed they were, and they were just killed.

The Path of the One isn't exactly easy to get through -- I can see the One being killed in many places or cases before making it to the door of light.

All that said, and I don't think Merv knew all of this plot or cared for it, but it would not have mattered had he killed Neo, in such a case.

I've been going over the scenes with the Merovingian to try to determine his motivations. To understand why certain characters do certain things, I try to tap into their motivations. His first major motivation is described by the Oracle herself, when she says that what he wants is more power.

The first time we see him is at the restaurant, and just before our heroes meet with him, he is finishing up his meeting with Rama-Kandra. Later we find out that Rama-Kandra had made a deal with the Merovingian--the termination code of the Oracle's shell in exchange for allowing his daughter Sati to be brought to the Matrix as an Exile. This exchange with Rama-Kandra tells us the Merovingian has no problem with the Oracle being killed. Later in Club Hel, he expresses disappointment that she survived.

At this same meeting in the restaurant, the Merovingian seems completely uninterested in capturing Neo or trying to force him to do anything. If anything, he treats Neo like a mild annoyance which he dismisses off-hand. He seems perfectly content with the situation at hand, which is that he has the Keymaker in his possession. It could be surmised from this that he is much more interested in the Keymaker than Neo.

In the Enter the Matrix game, we see that the Merovingian wanted the Keymaker so that he could make special keys for him that would grant him access all over the Matrix. When the Merovingian gets ahold of the special key "meant only for the One" that would allow Neo access to the Architect's chamber, the Merovingian destroys it. Although this could mean a couple things, the most obvious explanation to me is that he does not want Neo to reach the Architect. If he was trying to use it as a ploy to try to lure Neo later on so he could capture him, he could have done so at the restaurant. He was fully expecting Neo at the restaurant, yet did nothing about it except send him away. If he wanted to use the key for his own purposes, he would not have destroyed it. So therefore, destroying it only seems to serve one purpose--to keep it from being used by the person for whom it was intended.

Later, when Neo confronts the Merovingian for possession of the Keymaker, the Merovingian orders his men to kill Neo. Once again, he seems more intent on keeping the Keymaker and stopping Neo from progressing on the Path of the One.

Later, when Neo is trapped in Mobil Ave, the Merovingian uses it to his advantage to try to blackmail Morpheus and Trinity to gain the Oracle's eyes in exchange for Neo's freedom. Here is another instance of the Merovingian showing more interest in someone other than Neo--in this case the Oracle. When his hand is forced and Trinity makes him give up Neo, he doesn't even seem that disappointed. It's more like, "Oh well, it's not like I lost anything out of the deal." If he cared about having Neo in his possession, he wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude.

Every scene with the Merovingian points to the fact that when it comes to Neo, the Merovingian will do whatever he can to prevent him from completing the Path of the One--whether it be by destroying the special key or by trying to kill him. Other than that, he seems disinterested in him, caring more about the power that can be granted to him by the Keymaker or the Oracle. After Neo takes the last step on the Path of the One at the end of M2, the Merovingian seems almost completely disinterested in him, except as a bargaining chip. Apparently if the One makes it past the Architect's chamber, the Merovingian doesn't care what happens to him--further proof that the only attention the Merovingian will give to the One is to prevent him from reaching the Architect.

In summary I would say that the Merovingian is trying to prevent the reloading of the Matrix. As Mobil and Neophyte have pointed out, this probably relates largely to the immediate effects on his empire whenever there is a reload. But the question remains: what about the long-term effects? The Matrix would crash unless the One completes the Path of the One. So why try and stop him? I can only think of two reasons, one of which Mobil already suggested.

1) The Merovingian is unaware of the One's role in preventing the Matrix from crashing

2) The Merovingian is fully aware, but believes he has an alternate solution which will do the job just as well as the One

I still have a hard time believing the first theory, just because of the Merovingian's role as a trafficker in information AND the fact that he's been around for all of the cycles. But even though the second theory is interesting, there's no proof for it whatsoever. So I guess until more evidence pops up (or someone has a better theory) I think I'm going to have to go with the first theory. Dangit.

Feral did you notice Merv involves himself more and more in the game? He takes the Keymaker to put to make it necessary for Neo to him. But Neo and crew don't budge of the position that they want the Keymaker so he sees "no reason to give him up. No reason at all."

Neo was not targeted for death until he and his crew took the Keymaker anyway. Taking the Keymaker in the first place gave Merv a position of power if nothing else but bargaining power from the Oracle camp. Now if his henchmen had been able to kill Neo, Merovingian would really have had both sides by the *proverbial saying*, wouldn't he. He's exploiting the needs of both sides to increase in power. He knows they won't let themselves take a loss.

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1) The Merovingian is unaware of the One's role in preventing the Matrix from crashing

Several month ago, I opened a thread with the same question. The answer I found for myself was extactly that one (and what Mobile wrote above).

There are several topics covered by several characters. Merovingian vs. Oracle is about choice. The Merovigian cannot understand choice. For him, there is no such thing as everything has a reason, therefore no free will and no choice.

That's why he cannot fully understand that The One is essential to keep the Matrix working. The thinks in causalities: The One reaches the Source --> Matrix reloads --> my empire destroyed. If The One does not reach the Source, there is no cause and thus no effect.

To control the Keymaker is one way to do this, to destroy the key is another one and to kill The One is a third option. In addition, by controlling this cause, the Merovigian would have more control over the Matrix ...and more power...

And the Merovigian really seeks power. More Power. As much as possible. The knows that the Oracle is "superior", as she can see more than him, she understands this version of the Matrix better than he does, because unlike the previous version, this version is not built on causalities alone, but introduces a certain kind of choice. Maybe the Oracle replaced the Merovigian in this new version of the Matrix.

Bottom line: Driven by the blind desire to seek more power, enlarge/keep his empire and is hate for the Oracle, the Merovigian in fact would cause his own doom! He does not understand the greater correlations. That reminds me... it is just like modern politicians and greedy business people...

starcrow wrote:

To control the Keymaker is one way to do this,

Good post starcrow.

Notice how agents are jumping in and out left and right, always determined to kill either the One or some necessary link to the Source.

The Keymaker: We do only what we're meant to do.
Agent Johnson: Then you are meant for one more thing: deletion.

You'd think the higher powers over the matrix would direct their sentient programs more carefully -- with the key to the door unfinished, if Johnny had killed the Keymaker there, that'd have been pret-ty big trouble.

It's also possible I suppose that the Keymaker isn't as easily terminable as the agent would expect. Being an older program, like Cain and Abel, as well as very much needed, he's not about to be wiped out. So perhaps the machines aren't worried about their agents trying to kill such an important program.

starcrow wrote:

There are several topics covered by several characters. Merovingian vs. Oracle is about choice. The Merovigian cannot understand choice. For him, there is no such thing as everything has a reason, therefore no free will and no choice. That's why he cannot fully understand that The One is essential to keep the Matrix working. The thinks in causalities: The One reaches the Source --> Matrix reloads --> my empire destroyed. If The One does not reach the Source, there is no cause and thus no effect.

How do you relate these points and how does this work exactly?

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unlike the previous version, this version is not built on causalities alone, but introduces a certain kind of choice...

The previous version was built on causalities alone? How do you figure this?

I think I kind of understand what starcrow is getting at. Each new version of the Matrix adds something that was missing from the previous. One of the main themes of the Matrix movies is the clash of philosophies. In a general sense, the Matrix itself is evolving to become more integral--to become inclusive rather than exclusive.

You can't have a Matrix without suffering, it doesn't work.

You can't have a Matrix without freewill, it doesn't work.

You can't have a Matrix without purpose, it doesn't work.

Consequently, what IS the purpose of the Matrix? To be a static virtual reality program where millions of people just live out their lives? Or is its purpose to be a chrysalis, a cocoon where spirit and body meet in the world of the mind and emerge as something totally new? Interesting thought...

I've had a difficult time accepting the idea that the Merovingian doesn't know about the One's role in stabilizing the Matrix. I just couldn't imagine that after all this time he doesn't know WHY--especially after his cocky speech to Neo in the restaurant about the importance of WHY. The idea that he knows about the One's connection to the reload of the Matrix but doesn't know WHY seemed absolutely ludicrous to me.

But as I slowly let go of my assumptions, I began to see a sort of delicious irony in the whole thing. Here we have one of the masters of the Matrix, the consummate trafficker of information, and yet he nearly destroys his entire world because of his LACK of information. But the presence of irony wasn't enough for me. I wanted a little more evidence than that.

Last night I was thinking about the room numbers in the Matrix, and I remembered the numbers 101 and 303. 101 appears where we first see Neo (his apartment number) and the Merovingian (the floor of the restaurant). 303 appears where we first see Trinity (room number of the Heart 'o the City hotel) and the Oracle (her apartment number). Room 303 in the Heart o' the City is also the very same room outside of which Neo is shot by Agent Smith. Is there a pattern here?

First of all, 303 appears very much to be linked with enlightenment. Trinity is the driving force behind Neo's advance to enlightenment throughout the trilogy. Her very name represents the godhead, and everything that Neo accomplishes is a direct result of his love for her. The Oracle also is an integral part of Neo's enlightenment. And when Neo comes back to life outside of room 303, it is the first time he sees the code of the Matrix.

At the opposite end is 101. When we first see Neo in his apartment, he is at the earliest stages of enlightenment. He knows there is something wrong with the world around him and feels like he is living in a dream. But he is still very much a part of the system and is just another link in the chain. He has a long way to go before he even begins to walk the Path of the One, let alone the even higher Path of Neo.

So what does this say about the Merovingian? He, like Neo at the beginning of M1, knows certain things about the world around him, and is constantly seeking the WHY. If you've ever paid attention to the bulk of what Neo says throughout the movies, it is often in the form of a question. He is always seeking to know more, just as the Merovingian does. But could it be that even after all this time, the Merovingian is no more enlightened than Neo was at the beginning of M1? I'd say that this could very well be the case. Obviously I'm not referring to WHAT he knows, since he knows far more about the Matrix than Neo did in the beginning. I'm referring more to the QUALITY of what he knows--the enlightened nature of his consciousness, if you will. And if the Merovingian used to be like Neo, as stated by Persephone, perhaps he had been more enlightened at one time but actually REGRESSED over time.

Any thoughts?

I can't believe I forgot to mention this! When I was doing research on 101 and 303 in the Matrix movies, I came across some interesting tidbits relating to the big car chase scene in M2.

The two freeways referenced in the movie were the 101 and the 303. Also, one of the freeway signs says Whipple Ave, Woodside Rd, Marsh Rd - which are three real consecutive freeway exits on the 101 freeway south of San Francisco. This sign is the same sign that you would pass on the real-world highway 101 if you had just left the headquarters of Oracle Corporation and were heading southbound on 101. Weird, eh?

and I'll pose the same question here as I did in that thread. What if Merv. wanted to replace Neo? What if his intent was to use the keymaker to make it to the architect so that he could insert himself as the prime code? The Oracle said he wants more power. It's possible that he wanted to recreate the matrix in his image. It almost runs the line of Lucifer trying to overthrow God and sit in the throne of heaven. Just a thought.

Prometheus wrote:

What if Merv. wanted to replace Neo?

Prometheus, only a human can be the One. For further clarification on how exactly the One functions, see

FeralBoy, you were never an exilist in MxO, were you? LOL!

The Merovingian knows more about the cycles than has yet been revealed in the movies. He knows about the predecessors, the Oracle, the KeyMaker, etc. So you better believe he knows all the things you speak of. As for the "quality" of the information (intel?), the name of the restaurant is Le Vrai, the true/real.

That chase scene is in San Francisco. I've seen the city as about the same angle when we see Neo flying in, in several movies and TV shows.

And as I said, Merv's actions don't necessarily put everyone in danger but they put everyone in the RISK of danger. Either way you could liken him to the business giants who care not about the future they create for everyone by their practices or to a gambler who raises the stakes to a level where the win or loss will be tremendous. Doesn't matter.

intell wrote:

starcrow wrote: There are several topics covered by several characters. Merovingian vs. Oracle is about choice. The Merovigian cannot understand choice. For him, there is no such thing as everything has a reason, therefore no free will and no choice. That's why he cannot fully understand that The One is essential to keep the Matrix working. The thinks in causalities: The One reaches the Source --> Matrix reloads --> my empire destroyed. If The One does not reach the Source, there is no cause and thus no effect. How do you relate these points and how does this work exactly?

In the Merovigian's thinking, there is no choice. Everyhting is bound to causality chains. Cause and effect... that's all. Even he is a slave to it. There is no such thing as free will, no choice.

Therefore, he cannot understand the real purpose of The One. This has no place in his universe. He is blind to see the real "why". And that indeed is not without irony.

And because all his thinking is only in chains of cause and effect, he might believe that by removing the cause.. there will be no effect.

I just cannot see a different reason for what the Merovigian is doing.

Nevertheless, this still leaves some questions unanswered. And the most prominent are: Does this happen in every cycle? The Merovigian tries every time but fails every time? Or how and why did the previous Ones meet the Merovigian? I have no answer to that. It it one of the last things I have no theory for.

The Merovigian really bugs me... also regarding his name. What does his name has to do with his actions? Or does that only mean that he is somehow "ruling" the Matrix... like an empire... his empire... which of course would be doomed to fail if he succeeded.

intell wrote:

starcrow wrote: unlike the previous version, this version is not built on causalities alone, but introduces a certain kind of choice... The previous version was built on causalities alone? How do you figure this?

Yes, that is my theory. The Architect says that the Oracle inttroduces choice into the lastest version of the Matrix. Now, If you take choice out of reality, what is left (the next "lower level" if you want) are causalities. That's why I assume that the previos version was built on causalities.

I assume that the Merovigian (and Persephone) were involved in the creation of the previous version of the Matrix. The Merovigian is just so perfect when dealing with causalities that his purpose just has something to do with that.

<sorry>

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In the Merovigian's thinking, there is no choice. Everyhting is bound to causality chains. Cause and effect... that's all. Even he is a slave to it. There is no such thing as free will, no choice.

Yes. But:

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Therefore, he cannot understand the real purpose of The One. This has no place in his universe. He is blind to see the real "why".

I think this gives him a much better perspective of the One than Neo has until the end of M3. The path of the One is one of Causality more than Free Will.

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I just cannot see a different reason for what the Merovigian is doing

How about, disruption of the cause-and-effect process? Disrupt the game and make them deal YOU a hand.

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Does this happen in every cycle?

Maybe not.

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The Merovigian tries every time but fails every time?

This maybe the first time but maybe something like it occured before often.

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Or how and why did the previous Ones meet the Merovigian?

Various reasons, I'm sure but since the Merv is not part of the game, there is no reason for the One to encounter him unless he (merv) changed something.

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Yes, that is my theory. The Architect says that the Oracle inttroduces choice into the lastest version of the Matrix.

Yes.

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If you take choice out of reality, what is left (the next "lower level" if you want) are causalities. That's why I assume that the previos version was built on causalities.

There are 2 things that work against this conclusion.

From the films

1. "...I redesigned it to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature."

It doesn't sound like causality has as much to do with the second matrix as The Architect's slanted perception of humanity does.

2. If you take choice out of your perception reality, which many do from time to time, what you are left with is your opinion of how things "should" go. That's where Archie went wrong both times. Not everyone sees things as he does. So he had to get more TV's to try to calculate all the possible alternative to any given situation if he is to remain competitive in the "game".

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I assume that the Merovigian (and Persephone) were involved in the creation of the previous version of the Matrix. The Merovigian is just so perfect when dealing with causalities that his purpose just has something to do with that.

This of course requires what you said about the second matrix to be true, first.

FeralBoy wrote:

Each new version of the Matrix adds something that was missing from the previous. One of the main themes of the Matrix movies is the clash of philosophies. In a general sense, the Matrix itself is evolving to become more integral--to become inclusive rather than exclusive.

You are definitely on the right track. The last sentence especially.

Check out the model I next give below.

intell wrote:

Quote: If you take choice out of reality, what is left (the next "lower level" if you want) are causalities. That's why I assume that the previos version was built on causalities. 1. "...I redesigned it to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature." It doesn't sound like causality has as much to do with the second matrix as The Architect's slanted perception of humanity does.

For me, it does. He tried to reflect the human nature with (more / more complex / different / whatever kind of) causalities. Did not work of course, becuase causalities are inflexible. They cannot replace what is missing... choice.

intell wrote:

2. If you take choice out of your perception reality...

I wrote... take it out of reality, not only your perception of it. If there's no choice, which stands for freedom and thus incalculability... what you are left with is cause and effect... which is named causalities.

intell wrote:

That's where Archie went wrong both times. Not everyone sees things as he does. So he had to get more TV's to try to calculate all the possible alternative to any given situation if he is to remain competitive in the "game".

Yes, that's right. He is unable to see what's really going on. He lacks the ability to see further. Just like the Merovigian.

intell wrote:

Quote: I assume that the Merovigian (and Persephone) were involved in the creation of the previous version of the Matrix. The Merovigian is just so perfect when dealing with causalities that his purpose just has something to do with that. This of course requires what you said about the second matrix to be true, first.

Which is, what I currently believe...

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I wrote... take it out of reality, not only your perception of it.

I know you wrote that. I wrote what I wrote because if you create a matrix or "worldview", you haven't affected reality, just your perspective or view of it. No one's choices mean anything of themselves in that setting. The only meaning to observed actions becomes that meaning ascribed by the worldview itself. Causality has nothing to do with it at all. Do you play a sport?

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He is unable to see what's really going on. He lacks the ability to see further. Just like the Merovigian.

A problem with comparing those two is that they do not try to do what the other does. While the Architect tries to make sense of the actions of humans in the matrix, the Merovingian is eating filet mignon and drinking Chateau Haut-Brion. He couldn't care less about the choices of the unawakened. He knows as long as people like Oracle forsee them and people like Architect work around them, that manipulation will render the choices as mere illusions. Causality is the only thing he can trust.

Here's a tentative model. It is a simplification of how I see it but it functions:

The first matrix: The Architect's opinion of "perfection". Yeah maybe no one suffered but not necessarily a Paradise where everyone could live a meaningful, enjoyable life either. Definitely no autonomy present and you wouldn't have much say in how you reacted with the world around you.

The second matrix: Everything the same as above with the major exception being that it is the opposite of the Architect's view of perfection. It is as if you have to go to the other extreme just because you don't fully accept this end of the spectrum. The Architect ignores everything in between. You wonder why it failed <sarcasm>

The third matrix: The peak of HUMAN civilisation*. The setting that corresponds to the world as we know it. No one person's viewpoint is dominant. Everyone appears to have some say in what happens to them or at least the apparent ability to follow the course in line with their own viewpoint. Thanks to one who more understands the human psyche. But Archie has the TV's now to keep him in the loop and to more importantly reconcile the choices of those in the matrix to his own p.o.v.

The fourth matrix: MxO. A new peak. The matrix has jettisoned the Architect's ONE TRUE WAY TO LIVE meme/point of view also thanks to the Oracle. Even "human rejection of the simulation" has been allowed for.

*1999, America. The last year before the Bush administration (some might say, the last time and place of true freedom, lmao!)