[Matrix Reloaded]
Roland: "Once the machines were done with us, they started digging again."
 

Username:

  
Password:

  
Auto-login on each visit
  

  
Not a user yet? Register in 20 seconds!

»Machines as alienated spirit and the Second Renaissance«


Forum:
Ask your Matrix questions here

 

Feral Boy

Machines as alienated spirit and the Second Renaissance  

Reply with quote


So many posts, I should be moderator
Posts: 591
View user's profile

Quote from

in.integralinstitute.org...


Ken suggests that it's not until the last twenty minutes of part 3, Revolutions, that the key to the trilogy is revealed: although—and perhaps because—Neo is physically blind, he sees the machines as luminous, golden light—not quite how the "bad guys" are seen in most movies. And yet Neo is unmistakable in what he says to Trinity: "If you could see them as I see them, they are all made of Light...." Indeed, the machines represent Spirit, but Spirit as alienated and therefore attacking....

Thus, as Ken summarizes a more integral interpretation (that takes into account what is revealed in all three films), Zion represents body (filmed in blue tint), the Matrix represents mind (green tint), and the machines—this is the kicker revealed in part 3—represent spirit (golden tint). For those of you keeping track, this is indeed quite similar to the Great Nest of Being as taught by the world's wisdom traditions, a spectrum of being and consciousness reaching from body to mind to spirit.

Borrowing from the wisdom of Christian mysticism, "The flames of Hell are but God's love denied," and so an alienated and dissociated spirit manifests as an army of machines bent on destroying humankind. It is only in the integration of body, mind, and spirit that all three are redeemed and peace returns.



I've been trying to understand what Ken Wilber means when he speaks about alienated spirit. I must admit, the only viewpoint I have comes from my Judeo-Christian background, which says that when Adam sinned in Eden, he became broken (for lack of a better description). Before the Fall he had an integrated mind, spirit and body and was a whole being. But after the Fall he became a slave to his flesh and its lusts and was therefore imbalanced. But something tells me this is not exactly the scenario to which Ken Wilber subscribes. I'm hoping somebody on this forum is more familiar with his writings to show his slant on things.

Also, I've been thinking about the nature of the Second Renaissance, its connection to alienated spirit and the whole reason for using the word "renaissance" to begin with. When I did some quick research on the original Renaissance, there are a couple different viewpoints. There is the older 19th century viewpoint that there was one Renaissance in history which was preceded by the Middle Ages and followed by the Reformation. The more current view is that there have been several renaissances throughout history, each one with a specific name such as the Italian Renaissance. I'm assuming that the Wachowski Brothers are leaning more toward the traditional view since they precede it with "Second," indicating that there has only been one before it.

The word renaissance means a rebirth or revival, and hints not only at something new but perhaps a return of something old that has been forgotten. I'm a little fuzzy on how this pertains to the Matrix mythology. Originally I figured it was simply a reference to the new civilization, as described by Smith in M1 ("this is our time"), but upon closer inspection I noticed that the point in the Second Renaissance when the narrator speaks about the essence of the Second Renaissance is right after the new symbiotic relationship between man and machine is introduced. This is before the final meeting at the United Nations and before the Matrix, so I don't think it has anything to do with the Matrix itself. It seems to be more a reference to machines getting energy from humans. Right after this the narrator says, "Bless all forms of intelligence."

So in summary if anyone has opinions on Ken Wilber's opinion of alienated spirit (or in general the integral method approach to alienated spirit) and/or its connection to the Second Renaissance, I'd be very curious to hear it.

CaptPostMod

  

Reply with quote


What would the forum be without me?
Posts: 1798
Location: Right Here
View user's profile

Hey, Feral Boy! Long time no see!

You might check out this thread- matrix-explained.com.... tozy and I talk quite a bit about de-limited spirit on it, and the role of the divide between spirit and body in the films. (Mobil_Ave's got some good posts on this subject too, might click on his profile and back track through some of the things he's written).

You also might want to google or wikipedia the term "Cartesian dualism" which is tied into this whole divide issue. It might give you some more ideas.

Oooh, and also you might want to read up on Gnosticism. Meister Eckhart's a bit of Gnostic (though officially he was a Catholic) and he also has quite a bit to say about this topic. Might check one of his writings out from the library.

Okay, that was a glut of reference material. Probably just muddled things more than helped, but it's something, right? Smile

Many of Matrix-Explained's members have moved. Check us out at--matrixfans2007.informe.com...
Feral Boy

  

Reply with quote


So many posts, I should be moderator
Posts: 591
View user's profile

I realize that tozy and vanexel will probably be explaining this when they continue their essay on The Matrix Universe (at

starhtml.de...
but I can't wait for that. So I wanted to bring up one aspect of my previous question that I haven't seen dealt with yet--the use of the word "renaissance" and its purpose.

Feral Boy wrote:

The word renaissance means a rebirth or revival, and hints not only at something new but perhaps a return of something old that has been forgotten. I'm a little fuzzy on how this pertains to the Matrix mythology. Originally I figured it was simply a reference to the new civilization, as described by Smith in M1 ("this is our time"), but upon closer inspection I noticed that the point in the Second Renaissance when the narrator speaks about the essence of the Second Renaissance is right after the new symbiotic relationship between man and machine is introduced. This is before the final meeting at the United Nations and before the Matrix, so I don't think it has anything to do with the Matrix itself. It seems to be more a reference to machines getting energy from humans. Right after this the narrator says, "Bless all forms of intelligence."

Inevitability

  

Reply with quote


666+ posts
Posts: 676
Location: There's nowhere I can't go, there's nowhere I won't find you
View user's profile

As some of you may know the Second Renaissance became a key to understanding the Matrix for me and I devoted much time exploring and highlighting many of its meanings and wrote an entire essay which can be found in its most complete and concise form here:

thematrix101.com...


Being scribed through a 'Mandala' (referred to as the ‘Zion Archive’) see here:
Click and double-click to resize image
largely hints at the materials “Many Meanings”, as a Mandala itself is a form of Oracle similar to Temet Nosce (Know Thyself) intended to meditate upon, drawing into deeper hidden meanings.

Feral Boy wrote:


Also, I've been thinking about the nature of the Second Renaissance, its connection to alienated spirit and the whole reason for using the word "renaissance" to begin with... I'm assuming that the Wachowski Brothers are leaning more toward the traditional view since they precede it with "Second," indicating that there has only been one before it.

The word renaissance means a rebirth or revival, and hints not only at something new but perhaps a return of something old that has been forgotten... I noticed that the point in the Second Renaissance when the narrator speaks about the essence of the Second Renaissance is right after the new symbiotic relationship between man and machine is introduced.


Indeed if we take the understanding that the Machine is ‘Spirit Alienated’ it becomes more apparent that what is being described in keeping with this ‘Second Renaissance’ or second birth is the Fall of Man from his First Renaissance/Birth into a depraved aberration, symbolised not least by the increase of the Poisoned Fruit of Understanding (darkened Apple) unto ~His supposed 'Revival' or Artificial ~Intelligence. Thus iterating the blessing of "all forms of intelligence", having lost intelligence in the form of its natural inherent beauty, rendering himself Artificial and alienated from His true Human state. Vis a vis ~ a machine with a disembodied spirit (Life without its Purpose).

"Thus did man become the Architect of his own demise:"

What do you think I am… Human?

Precisely.

Click and double-click to resize image
I am the new gardener
Feral Boy

  

Reply with quote


So many posts, I should be moderator
Posts: 591
View user's profile

Inevitability wrote:

As some of you may know the Second Renaissance became a key to understanding the Matrix for me and I devoted much time exploring and highlighting many of its meanings and wrote an entire essay which can be found in its most complete and concise form here:
thematrix101.com...


Good stuff there, Inev! I really enjoyed reading that essay, which was very helpful in putting the Second Renaissance in a new light. There are many layers to that particular chapter of the history of the Matrix, and I find that as I learn more about the Second Renaissance the more I understand the point of the entire Matrix mythology.

Inevitability wrote:

Indeed if we take the understanding that the Machine is ‘Spirit Alienated’ it becomes more apparent that what is being described in keeping with this ‘Second Renaissance’ or second birth is the Fall of Man from his First Renaissance/Birth into a depraved aberration, symbolised not least by the increase of the Poisoned Fruit of Understanding (darkened Apple) unto ~His supposed 'Revival' or Artificial ~Intelligence. Thus iterating the blessing of "all forms of intelligence", having lost intelligence in the form of its natural inherent beauty, rendering himself Artificial and alienated from His true Human state. Vis a vis ~ a machine with a disembodied spirit (Life without its Purpose).


I think this is the part that confused me. You're describing the Second Renaissance as being a form of de-evolution, whereas I was making the assumption that it would, by virtue of the definition of the word "renaissance," be a positive change. That's why I was having such difficulty, because I couldn't see anything positive about what was going on. Unless maybe there's even more to it than either one of us has seen thus far.

Inevitability wrote:

"Thus did man become the Architect of his own demise:"

What do you think I am… Human?

Precisely.


Man, I love that! You are the undisputed master of taking quotes and ordering them in such a way that you gain new understanding. You are always insightful and thought-provoking, Inev. Keep it up!

intell

  

Reply with quote


Another Smith poster!
Posts: 2640
Location: Unplugged and moving forward
View user's profile

Quote:

Man, I love that! You are the undisputed master of taking quotes and ordering them in such a way that you gain new understanding. You are always insightful and thought-provoking, Inev. Keep it up!


Thumbup

Click and double-click to resize image

Reply to topic



Right now you are in a Matrix forum called
"Ask your Matrix questions here"
Page 1 of 1

Click here to see all topics of this forum
Click here to see all other Matrix forums hosted by matrix-explained.com

 


Click here for more options
V
V

Search

View unanswered posts

Log in to check your private messages

Click here to see, who is online

Most users ever online was 443 on 06.Nov.2003 10:03

Submit your site!

Go voting!

Edit your data

Jump to:  
Memberlist
Usergroups
FAQ
The time now is 26.May.2012 00:01
All times are GMT + 2 Hours

Powered by p h p B.B. © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group