»Near the end of Revolutions, did anyone else notice....«

granny smith wrote:

Its not just about Neo giving the oportunity to the machines to erase Smith, couse than enybody could do it. Program Smith lost its purpuse by killing the one and he was ready to be deleted.

Actually, it's not about that either, because then Deus wouldn't have said, "WE DON'T NEED YOU..." and "AND IF YOU FAIL." If Neo is part of the Machines' purpose for Smith, they do need him. And if Neo's death is the purpose, how could he "fail"? By living forever?

Smith was deleted similary to how he was "killed" at the end of M1. Even the machines didn't know how it could be done. Neo didn't fail.

marsoullis wrote:

Don't nobody tell me they don't know who and what that guy is, where he was, and why they would do well to look after him.

Hmm. Maybe "they" didn't know what Neo was but Archie did. And the powers that be sit back and watch how their game goes.

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Hmm. Maybe "they" didn't know what Neo was but Archie did. And the powers that be sit back and watch how their game goes.

Naturally, as I meant it.
It seems to always lead back to this question of what Smith knew and when, and what his motives were if he was in on the machines' big secret.

Seems to me Smith could in no way have been killed other than how he was. Would it not make sense that, as I believe he is an integral part of the anomoly, the opposite in the equation trying to balance itself out, that Smith could only be destroyed as Neo is also destroyed, and vice versa -- which is why they could not kill each other in the first film.

I found something cool , something that confirms another part of the anomaly I always believed.

TRINITY
It's the question that brought you
here. You know the question just as
I did. It is a hacker's question.
(from the original M1 script)

Another reason I believed the machines have to plant the code into a human themselves coordinate to their destruction of Zion is that it has to be a very particular person. I always believed it had to be hacker, not per se an aborigine in the desert, or the like. I like that, and I like this (from an even earlier draft than the one before):


MORPHEUS
Let me tell you why you are here.
You are here because you have the
gift.

NEO
What gift?

MORPHEUS
I've watched you, Neo. You do not
use a computer like a tool. You
use it like it was part of
yourself. What you can do inside
a computer is not normal. I know.
I've seen it. What you do is
magic.

Neo shrugs.

NEO
It's not magic.

MORPHEUS
But it is, Neo. It is. How else
would you describe what has been
happening to you?

He leans forward.

MORPHEUS
We are trained in this world to
accept only what is rational and
logical. Have you ever wondered
why?

Neo shakes his head.

MORPHEUS
As children, we do not separate
the possible from the impossible
which is why the younger a mind is
the easier it is to free while a
mind like yours can be very
difficult.

NEO
Free from what?

MORPHEUS
From the Matrix.

Neo locks at his eyes but only sees a reflection of
himself.

MORPHEUS
Do you want to know what it is,
Neo?

Neo swallows and nods his head.

MORPHEUS
It's that feeling you have had all
your life. That feeling that
something was wrong with the
world. You don't know what it is
but it's there, like a splinter in
your mind, driving you mad,
driving you to me. But what is
it?

Smith didn't lose purpose when Neo died, or was in the process of dieing. He said "no, it's not fair!". Not the words of a man who is accepting his fate. His goal was to destroy everything, Neo was the only thing standing in his way. He was a means to an end, not the end itself.

For the record, I don't think the machines know who will be the one... however I think the Oracle has a good idea... but I'm not sure she shares the info with Archy. Part of Zion's purpose to me, is to find and train the one. Something about being an anomaly and being designated just doesn't fit... an anomaly doesn't normally get assigned on purpose... I mean who would just go around making anomalies in their program that they consider a "harmany of mathematical precision"... it is a random side effect, one that is in this case expected, but still unavoidable.

One other point... I'm pretty sure the matrix is quite capable of surveiling a number of individuals, not just the One. This in and of itself is proof only that the architect is paying attention, not that he know's Neo's destiny.

Hello Feral Boy, it is nice to see you again... no Inev has been on holiday apparently (at least from the boards). I doubt we've seen the last of him though. We have picked up some good new posters though, captianPostMod and PsykyHaker come to mind... amoung others.

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an anomaly doesn't normally get assigned on purpose... I mean who would just go around making anomalies in their program that they consider a "harmany of mathematical precision"... it is a random side effect, one that is in this case expected, but still unavoidable.

You're right, the anomaly itself isn't assigned, because the anomaly isn't the One. The One is a necessary event in the anomaly's existence. I could never accept that the One appears at random, without the machines' knowing and manipulating -- that to me would contradict its very purpose, as well as the purpose of its viral counterpart. But... to each his own of course

Ok, TIRED! Going to sleep already

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You're right, the anomaly itself isn't assigned, because the anomaly isn't the One. The One is a necessary event in the anomaly's existence.

Marsoulis is correct . The Architect told Neo he is the eventuality/result of an anomaly. Not THE anomaly.

Marsoulis, where did you find the previous Neo-Morpheus dialogue ?

Man, I remember going over and over this whole Neo-as-anomaly debate with everyone and changing my opinion about a gazillion times. Eventually not long after the Matrix Online game went live, there was a quote from the Architect in-game in which he specifically refers to Neo as the integral anomaly. And later after studying the phrase "prime program" from a programmer's standpoint, I came to the conclusion that this was the Architect's technical reference to the Path of the One. This was backed up by the same speech from the Architect in the Matrix Online game, in which he states that the prime program was not rebooted. I take this to mean that the Path of the One did not end like it had in the previous cycles, where the Ones return to the Source, unload the code they carried (consisting of the sum of the remainder of the unbalanced equation which was a result of all the people who rejected the Matrix), and choose 23 new individuals to rebuild Zion. The Path of the One ends at the Source and begins with the rebuilding of Zion. Neo made his own path and created the Path of Neo.

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Neo made his own path and created the Path of Neo.

Good point Feral Boy.

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Marsoulis, where did you find the previous Neo-Morpheus dialogue ?

"Some are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it." D&C 123:12


But just kidding, Therion , I was about to make a new thread of where people can find the original scripts of Matrix 1 and 2. 3 is unfindable, but I found a great cop-out for it. For your pleasure...Get ready for draft one of M1 -- this is killer

scweet ! thanks ! Did you find many important differences? (are we sure these drafts are official ? )

I'm pretty sure they are. For one reason.

There's this one. It has many of the same differences from the movie, yet is a second or third draft, much closer to the film that the one I posted above. Hehe, me being one who doesn't cuss, I noticed in particular the similiar placements of the f-bomb, taken out of the movie (and I bet you they did that and other clean-ups so to get it it's originally-earned PG-13).

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granny smith wrote:

Its not just about Neo giving the oportunity to the machines to erase Smith, couse than enybody could do it. Program Smith lost its purpuse by killing the one and he was ready to be deleted.

Actually, it's not about that either, because then Deus wouldn't have said, "WE DON'T NEED YOU..." and "AND IF YOU FAIL." If Neo is part of the Machines' purpose for Smith, they do need him. And if Neo's death is the purpose, how could he "fail"? By living forever?

Smith was deleted similary to how he was "killed" at the end of M1. Even the machines didn't know how it could be done. Neo didn't fail.

Maybe the Deus is just underastimating Neo, because he is a man.
Smiths purpose was stoping Neo, not the other way around. Neo choose to stop Smith, not because he was programed to do it, but he was the only one that could do it.
I am not saying he fail, just that it was a way to win, by acsepting that one cannot be without the other.
I think it is as simple as that.

What is the Matrix a place for the A I to be controlled, The MERV a rogue but he is still fooled by our system. A I could never beat the human brain or humanity for long we alway over come. Remember this Neo was the anomaly, that would prevent the A I from escaping

I dont understand what are you trying to say by Neo is helping AI not to escape.

Paikain wrote:

What is the Matrix a place for the A I to be controlled, The MERV a rogue but he is still fooled by our system. A I could never beat the human brain or humanity for long we alway over come. Remember this Neo was the anomaly, that would prevent the A I from escaping

Neo was not the anomoly. He was the eventuality. The anomoly is the 1% of humanity who won't accept the computer-generated dreamworld.

Meanwhile, what do you mean the matrix was a place for AI to be controlled? Merv was to some extend, as are all within, but the whole system was created and controlled BY the singular consciousness of AI, not the contrary.