»Near the end of Revolutions, did anyone else notice....«

...that when Neo is laying in the Machine World, with all those wires hooked up to him - just after Smith merged with him - that there was a sudden SURGE of energy that went INTO Neo?

This may be painfully old news, but as a hardcore Matrix enthusiast, I can honestly say that I never noticed this until very recently. Right after this is when Smith's eyes glowed and he (and all his clones) blew apart.

I am guessing then, that this was a sort of "anti-virus" sent INTO Smith by the Machines (because they were wired into Neo, and Neo had just merged with Smith), seeing as how Smith had more or less become a virus...ironic, considering he called humanity the same thing in M1.

pretty popular idea back int he day. The flaw, Neo was connected to the amchiens and Smith sure, but so were millions of other people. WHy'd they need Neo?

My guess is because Neo is the One, i.e., carried with him certain properties that allowed the kind of access needed to destroy Smith.

But, has it been noticed that there is a VISIBLE surge from the wires into Neo's body just before Smith(s) exploded?

Anyone?

ghost22 wrote:

...that when Neo is laying in the Machine World, with all those wires hooked up to him - just after Smith merged with him - that there was a sudden SURGE of energy that went INTO Neo?

"Notice" it? There was a cross burned into Neo's chest because of it!

Neo connected Smith to the Source. Using his own body as a sacrificial conduit (hence the cross), Neo allows Smith to be purged from the system through him.

I hate to sound like an arrogant fart, but are people still figuring this stuff out? C'mon already! Let's get to the real discussion, people! Who else thinks that Hegel already had the process of biological evolution figured on a memetic level way before Darwin ever set foot on the Galapagos? The Hegelian Conflict and Dialectic certainly indicates as much. Indeed, Neo and Smith's merging of exitentialist-nihilistic philosophy to synthesise a new transcended form of evolved 'being' in a blaze of light seems to be the ultimate unity of the genetic, memetic and the ethereal (or 'body, mind and spirit' for you Wilberites out there) to reach some sort of omega point that could be seen to be the end-point of all things...that, in the true cyclic nature of the universe, leads only to a new beginning being 'synthesised' from the old ends.

Ideas? Discussion? Brain farts? Fucktarts?

Did I just say "fucktarts"?

Jesus, I need to reacquaint myself with the lost art of sleep...

Darius wrote:

pretty popular idea back int he day. The flaw, Neo was connected to the amchiens and Smith sure, but so were millions of other people. WHy'd they need Neo?

Eh? "Millions of other people" were "connected to the machines"? The Matrix is a seperate operating system that the machine mainframe has no direct access to. The agents that jump into people are not from the mainframe, but from the Matrix program itself. It is connections like Mobil Ave and the Architect's chamber that separate the Matrix OS from the machine OS.

They needed Neo as a conduit to give them direct access to Smith from the Source.

As we learn in Reloaded, programs can only be deleted at the Source. Why else would they seek refuge in the Matrix under the protection of the Merovingian as exiles if they were already connected to the Source?

People, people, let's move on to bigger and better things!

THANK YOU!

After 3 yrs, you would think that some of the "vets" would be questioning new things.

What Max314 just said should settle that whole DeM-is-the-Archetect crapola.

DEM = Architect, eh? Never heard that one -- pretty out there.

Good points made, Max.

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As we learn in Reloaded, programs can only be deleted at the Source. Why else would they seek refuge in the Matrix under the protection of the Merovingian as exiles if they were already connected to the Source?

As a side note, Merv always seemed more or less a rebel of sorts himself against the machines. He's obviously not in hiding, but I doubt he takes orders from agents or Archie. Seems his power and influence protect him. And he wants the Oracle destroyed -- what's in his head with that idea, the crazy. The guy's an oldie, but did he live back to the first iteration with the anomaly? Further thoughts concerning his loyalties?

intell wrote:

What Max314 just said should settle that whole DeM-is-the-Archetect crapola.

...people actually think that?

Marsoullis wrote:

Merv always seemed more or less a rebel of sorts himself against the machines. He's obviously not in hiding, but I doubt he takes orders from agents or Archie. Seems his power and influence protect him. And he wants the Oracle destroyed -- what's in his head with that idea, the crazy. The guy's an oldie, but did he live back to the first iteration with the anomaly? Further thoughts concerning his loyalties?

I don't think he wants the Oracle destroyed as much as he wants her in his dungeon.

The fact that he is such an old program would indicate to me that he's seen every itteration of the Matrix at least in its current form of recycling anomalies.

I find it interesting that Persephone indicates how much the Merovingian was once like Neo. Once you've side-stepped the nauseating claims that "the Merovingian is a former One...only that makes no bloody sense!", you start to wonder about Neo's possible fate.

Imagine if he had taken the other door and lived out the rest of his life in the fame and glory of the One? He'd be master of his domain until he died! That ain't a bad deal.

That's why Trinity's love was so crucial in seeing him break the cycle and bring about revolution.

Food for thought.

max314 wrote:

...people actually think that?

Ya gotta see for yourself

Sound familiar? He realises the "game" and decides not to play any more. Leaves the Machine World "OS" -> "When we first came here..."

The difference is that Merv decides to play his own game and build a power base with the knowledge of how the system works. Neo ends up doing the same. "Because I choose to." But he gives the control to those he dies for, providing a foundation of power for them to build on. Earlier Merv probably left Machine World like a Moses-like leader in search of freedom. It would be interesting to see a prequel of his earlier doings. Heck, any excuse to bring Monica back.

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The Merovingian is therefore on no one's side in the machine/human conflict. This has even more significance when you consider why the W's might have given him that name.

Amen intell. That whole Merv thread had some great points made.

"I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you."

Clearly ol Merv isn't much interested in covering for the machines' secret. Definitely on his own side. But chew on this -- did anyone consider who his predecessors were? There could be more meaning to his title than mere arrogance and superiority. He was once like Neo.

max314 wrote:

Darius wrote: pretty popular idea back int he day. The flaw, Neo was connected to the amchiens and Smith sure, but so were millions of other people. WHy'd they need Neo? Eh? "Millions of other people" were "connected to the machines"? The Matrix is a seperate operating system that the machine mainframe has no direct access to. The agents that jump into people are not from the mainframe, but from the Matrix program itself. It is connections like Mobil Ave and the Architect's chamber that separate the Matrix OS from the machine OS. They needed Neo as a conduit to give them direct access to Smith from the Source. As we learn in Reloaded, programs can only be deleted at the Source. Why else would they seek refuge in the Matrix under the protection of the Merovingian as exiles if they were already connected to the Source? People, people, let's move on to bigger and better things!

Ok, but what stopped them from picking JOhn SMith from his pod and then connecting him to the source like Neo was?

Uh..Because John Smith does not have power from the Source?

I'll have Potent Potables for a hundred, Alex.

Ask yourself, did Neo seem to sort of short circuit sentinals?

Well yes it did appear that way... so basically he was surging more energy through them then they were capable of taking, they got fried. And the bombs... well.. when you do that to them they go boom! So.... Here Neo is sitting in the machine city, connected to it literally all over his body. He takes this energy (he is touching the source) and he channels it through his body. Dues sits their and does nothing, cause he cannot stop Smith, but Neo can. Quote the Oracle "You are all that stands in his way." This is the only explanation that makes sense, if Dues channels that energy... what indeed do they need Neo for?

I would guess that the machines did not design their system to be able to pump energy into humans, they only feed them and moniter them. The energy flow typically comes from the human to the machine, not the reverse, and it is the machine that is channeling the energy from the human to the machine. So it is that Neo the human is channeling energy from the machine to himself.

John Smith is already connected to the source just as much as Neo was. If you are in a pod in the machine city, you are connected to the source, at least potentially. The source runs through every machine, and through the entire city. They are all connected to the machine main frame, unless they have escaped to the matrix. However even their, the matrix itself is tied to the machine main frame, which should seem obvoius.

intell wrote:

Uh..Because John Smith does not have power from the Source? I'll have Potent Potables for a hundred, Alex.

How does that change anything? Apparently all the machines needed was somewehre to pump the eneergy through. WHy did Neo have to be the One to do that? It's not like they had to worry about the "conduit" surviving.

The machines didn't pump the energy. Neo drew it within him.

Oracle: The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from.

Neo: Where?

Oracle: The Source. That's what you felt when you touched those Sentinels. But you weren't ready for it. You should be dead, but apparently you weren't ready for that, either.

Touching the Source would kill John Smith. It almost killed the One. But after being properly prepared and his consciousness expanded, by the end of Revolutions Neo is able to handle touching the Source long enough for him to act as a conduit until all the Smiths have been destroyed.

Feral, it is good to see you back. Now if we can just get mxo.jones and inev...

Check out the Dancing with Truth thread to see some of what you're missing.

I've said this before, and though I don't know for certain (and I figure neither could anyone else), I still think it's the case.

The machines to me must have some influence to when the anomaly (the One) appears. I personally see possibility in them going so far as to designate him. If Morpheus was told that he would find the One, then the machines must've essentially helped him to do so.

The power of the One is essential for survival of humanity, and thus for the machines as well. But, what if Neo had been killed before he could reload the prime program, for example?

"The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from... the Source. That's what you felt when you touched those sentinels."

It is that power that connects him to every other machine under DEM. That to me had to be deliberately planted into him by the machines. There's evidence of that too in that the Architect knew exactly who the One was, and had been watching him long before the resistence ever found him.

This makes sense to me because, had Neo died, the machines wouldn't have been deprived of their precious singularly-important human to reload the matrix.


Bottom line is, the One is not everybody, and the One is not just anybody. That's why he's the One.

Wow that was quick posting Feral -- great minds think alike .

Marsoullis,

That is because The One and the "anomaly" are 2 different things.

intell wrote:

Feral, it is good to see you back. Now if we can just get mxo.jones and inev... Check out the Dancing with Truth thread to see some of what you're missing.

Thanks, man. So Inev hasn't posted in a while either, eh?

intell wrote:

Marsoullis, That is because The One and the "anomaly" are 2 different things.

But of course, yes. The anomaly as I read into it is essentially the reality-checked 1%.

How do you see it Intell... see the One as being a random pop-up someday in the matrix, or as a somewhat coordinated move on the machines' part (as I see it, at a point when it seems timely to quell the resistence)

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The anomaly as I read into it is essentially the reality-checked 1%.

Well, yeah, in a sense. The anomaly is what they have in common. Rebellion against the status quo. But as you imply only up to a point.

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How do you see it Intell... see the One as being a random pop-up someday in the matrix, or as a somewhat coordinated move on the machines' part

Coordinated move. As soon as Neo is found, the machines start digging. Coincidence? I don't think so. Everyone is expecting Neo as "The One" from Oracle to Merv to Arc. Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Archie even talks about what "The One" is supposed to do next.

Glad someone of intelligence agrees with me. I was referring before to Archie's peep show on Neo with the agents in 1 -- the guy had him on like every monitor! Don't nobody tell me they don't know who and what that guy is, where he was, and why they would do well to look after him.

Its not just about Neo giving the oportunity to the machines to erase Smith, couse than enybody could do it. Program Smith lost its purpuse by killing the one and he was ready to be deleted.