»Smith and Choice«

I have an explanation to share as well as a related problem to discuss... first, here's my own explanation of how Neo defeated Smith:

It seems to me that Smith's deletion was enabled only by Neo's combining with him after Neo's key decision to allow himself to be deleted since his purpose was fulfilled. This decision was then passed on immediately to Smith. In other words, Smith was "tricked" into choosing deletion because he took over a person who already made that irrational choice. Smith inherits qualities and abilities of programs and people he takes over, so certainly he would inherit consequences of their previous decisions too.

What this implies is that the Smith virus could not be wiped out until that point because Smith had not chosen to be - he was created for the purpose of balancing out the One, and even though Smith threatens the worlds inside and outside the Matrix, Smith is still merely fulfilling the purpose for which he was created. Choice killed Smith since it forced Smith to be part of Neo's sacrifice.

I've never seen this interpretation anywhere before (just came up with it today) and it makes a lot more sense to me than the idea that Smith's mere connection to the Source got him deleted. Remember it has to be chosen. If all the Smiths were merely "connected" to the Source in the end (without Neo's choice preceding it), then all the Smiths would just be dumped into Mobil Ave. (and probably get right back out if one of them is Trainman-Smith).

Second, here's my dilemma:

Go back to previous versions of choice-oriented Matrixes (ones run by the Oracle), such as version 3 or 5. In all those cases, Smith would have been wiped out when the One returned to the Source. How is it that Smith can be granted the choice to survive, but somehow when the One returns to the Source, that liberty of choice is ignored and Smith is wiped out? In previous versions, it was only Neo (not Neo-Smith) who returned to the Source.

And yes, I know it's tempting to think that Smith never existed as a virus until this 6th version... The reason I'm compelled to believe Smith always exists as a virus is because Neo always has to be countered as a way to balance the equation. It also always provides additional reason for the One to return to the Source out of love for humanity - it avoids "cataclysmic" crash due to a virus. Not only that, but Neo would always choose to destroy Agent Smith since he is Neo's biggest threat inside the Matrix.

In my opinion I think the title of your post hits it right on the head, Smith and Choice. The way I saw the demise of Smith was due to Neo's choice and his knowing why he made his decision. Remember, "the problem is choice". That's why there have been so many versions of the matrix, the machines can't comprehend choice, every anomaly has done what is was supposed to do, re-enter the matrix no questions asked. In the previous versions of the matrix, the Smith program never had a chance to become a virus, the One program always complied when it visited the Architect program, this time there's a glitch. I'm going to make an assumption here and say the events in the other 5 versions didn't happen the way they did in the 6th. That said, I don't think Neo jumped into Smith in any previous versions. I believe something was imparted onto Smith causing him to want to understand humanity more. That played a role in his becoming a virus since that's how he saw humans. The machines are at a loss because this is a problem they've never encountered. The path of the One leads back to the source, the other 5 thought it meant they had to comply and reenter the matrix. Neo understood that when the time came he was going to have to decide to go. He came to the understanding of why he had made that choice, which is actually the choice the Oracle was talking about when her and Neo met in the playground. Understanding his choice, he chose to go into the matrix again. After a little workout with Smith, Neo chooses to lay down his life. Smith is destroyed because the program is now obsolete. The original Smith died with Bane. Neo gets assimilated into the source and the machines now understand choice, which was the key to keeping the matrix intact. Everyone hooked to the matrix understands they have a choice now because what Neo imparted on Smith went to all Smiths. Remember the purpose for the Smith program is to hunt down those who have chosen the red pill. Smith is a prison guard. Neo pardoned the prisoners, no need for a guard. You've got to understand that it wasn't just choice but the reason behind choice. The architect stressed that when he noted Neo's love for Trinity. The ones that came before him had a generalized concern for mankind hence their reason for reentering the matrix no questions asked. Neo laid down his life willingly for the love of mankind, he chose to give his life to save the people he loved.

Surprised wrote:

In other words, Smith was "tricked" into choosing deletion because he took over a person who already made that irrational choice. Smith inherits qualities and abilities of programs and people he takes over, so certainly he would inherit consequences of their previous decisions too.

Then they could have chosen any other human and/or entity and connect it to the Source.

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I've never seen this interpretation anywhere before (just came up with it today) and it makes a lot more sense to me than the idea that Smith's mere connection to the Source got him deleted. Remember it has to be chosen. If all the Smiths were merely "connected" to the Source in the end (without Neo's choice preceding it), then all the Smiths would just be dumped into Mobil Ave. (and probably get right back out if one of them is Trainman-Smith).

In a way you are right yes. Neo chose to return to the Source and as we all know Smith = Neo. Smith is the darker, usually more subconscious part of Neo's mind. So Smith has no choice, he has to follow Neo.

And I don't really see it as a deletion process. It's a nullifying process: positive and negative merged perfectly together results in nothing at all. That's why the Source could wipe out all the other Smiths; the multiple Smiths were Neo's negative side, which since the merge no longer had a purpose to excist.

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Go back to previous versions of choice-oriented Matrixes (ones run by the Oracle), such as version 3 or 5. In all those cases, Smith would have been wiped out when the One returned to the Source. How is it that Smith can be granted the choice to survive, but somehow when the One returns to the Source, that liberty of choice is ignored and Smith is wiped out? In previous versions, it was only Neo (not Neo-Smith) who returned to the Source.

Like I said, Smith (or any other Anti One) has to follow, because he is part of 'the One'. When Neo chooses the Source at the Architect, then he chooses not to face his darker side, but to run for it, to supress it back into his mind. So, although I don't know how it would happen exactly , Smith will also vanish during a normal reload.

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And yes, I know it's tempting to think that Smith never existed as a virus until this 6th version... The reason I'm compelled to believe Smith always exists as a virus is because Neo always has to be countered as a way to balance the equation. It also always provides additional reason for the One to return to the Source out of love for humanity - it avoids "cataclysmic" crash due to a virus. Not only that, but Neo would always choose to destroy Agent Smith since he is Neo's biggest threat inside the Matrix.

Wow, this sounds as great music to my ears (or eyes actually LOL). I have been preaching this theory for years now and finally I have spotted another believer. You are the second one so far

Really? I thought this view was the norm and I am the anomaly here. But some things do change.

Ok, this is long but bear with it - I absolutely packed this posting with content...

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Quote: Smith was "tricked" into choosing deletion because he took over a person who already made that irrational choice. Then they could have chosen any other human and/or entity and connect it to the Source.

I see some holes in this:

1) In order to use another program in Neo's place, the system would have to make the program's purpose to be "let Smith copy over you so he can be deleted", and in that case Smith would have been able to see (using the Oracle's eyes) that he would be destroyed if he copies over this program - so Smith wouldn't have done so. Oracle-Smith can see past all choices that are understood by the chooser.

2) In order to use another person in Neo's place, well that's just a matter of planting code into another person. Yes, anyone can become the One if the code is planted into them as an infant. Now if you're talking about using any person whether the One or not, only the One can actually reach Machine City, so Neo is the only human who could have done this. Part of Neo's ability to win at the end was the element of surprise - Smith would have calculated the probability of the One actually reaching Machine City to be zero. It needed to be a human capable of overcoming impossible odds in order to surprise Smith.

3) Whether a human or entity, that entity needed to be in a situation who didn't understand their own choice to sacrifice themselves, so that Smith couldn't see what would happen after copying. How do you get someone to do something they don't even fully understand in order to save the world? That's what the Oracle did with the One. Of all the noodles the Oracle baked in all three movies, this is the biggest one. That's why she didn't flat out tell Neo what he needed to do - it wasn't for a cinematic effect of cryptic soothsaying (although it does accomplish that too) - it was critical that Neo not understand what he needed to do. (But she gave him just enough of her sight without time in order to be able to see brief visions of what needed to be done.)

The formation of Neo-Smith (and therefore the non-existence of the One) is the reason why Smith's purpose ceased to exist. But it's only half the reason. Yes, the system would never attempt to delete Smith as long as Neo still lives, because Smith's purpose is to kill Neo. The system does not delete a program unless the purpose is no longer necessary (or the system finds a better way to fulfill that purpose). But the other half of the reason is that Neo decided he could be deleted before Smith took him over. Without this decision, Neo-Smith could have chosen exile as a program without purpose (and Neo-Smith would have, if it weren't for Neo-Smith's unfortunate history of having already accepted deletion)!

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Like I said, Smith (or any other Anti One) has to follow, because he is part of 'the One'. When Neo chooses the Source at the Architect, then he chooses not to face his darker side, but to run for it, to supress it back into his mind. So, although I don't know how it would happen exactly, Smith will also vanish during a normal reload.

Surely you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to the higher meaning of opposites, negatives, etc. (and I really think it's a very cool symbolic process), but in terms of pure plot and mechanisms of how things work, I'm still more convinced that Smith was deleted by Deus Ex Machina, rather than being victim of some sort of mysterious, inevitable disintegration that must happen when opposites join (we saw Neo's body being used as a channel through which Smith was destroyed - this was action taken by DEM, not a chain reaction from the joining of Neo and Smith). If it was mere opposites canceling each other out, I think Smith would have been smart enough to know that such a thing would happen, being the ultimate computer virus that is able to think and make decisions to ensure its own survival (and also having taken over every other program in the matrix, including the Prime Program, the Oracle!). Oracle-Smith definitely would have forseen something like that.

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Wow, this sounds as great music to my ears (or eyes actually LOL). I have been preaching this theory for years now and finally I have spotted another believer. You are the second one so far

Well, I should point out that the third reason I cited for believing that the Smith virus always existed came from reading one of your posts! However, since making my original post yesterday, I'm no longer convinced. Sorry to disappoint you, I really sincerely am! No matter how many posts I read, I just cannot get past Smiths saying, "It's happening exactly as before. Well, not exactly." No matter what things I come up with to explain what Smith was talking about in that scene, they all seem like a huge stretch. Instead, examine the puzzle pieces that scream to be put together:

A) Smith looks at the dead agent on the ground thinking, "hah, isn't this ironic - I'm looking at what happened to myself before [at least once, maybe 5 times before]. It's exactly the same... but not exactly. mooaaaahh-hahahaha...."

B) Seraph said he beat Smith before, and then Smith responded something like, "Yes, but as you can see, things are a little different now." If not because there are many Smiths, then what else could he possibly be referring to? I don't think anything else adds up as well.

C) The Smith virus is part of the dangerous game the Oracle played; he was another one of the Oracle's baked noodles. Had it not been for the Smith virus, Neo wouldn't have had a bargaining chip at the end of M3. I believe the Oracle (in her Prime Program of her 6th version of the Matrix) gave Smith an ability to copy himself - this is part of the power and function of the Prime Program creator. Agent Smith wouldn't have ever used this ability because it had nothing to do with the purpose of keeping the system secure. Once Agent Smith was freed from the system, he was no longer tied to the higher goal of security, but his goal of killing Neo was still valid, so it would make sense to start using his ability to copy himself to maximize his chances of destroying the One.

In previous versions of the Matrix, this self-duplication ability would have been pointless. The system cannot allow the One to actually be killed, so the countermeasure must not actually be more powerful than the One. That's why the One always kicked Agent Smith's butt before, and it never went any farther than that. But this time it was different - Agent Smith was created to be more powerful than the One, and in fact powerful enough to threaten life and civilization itself. A dangerous game indeed.

[Also, this gives a double-meaning to the "bastard-mom" exchange between Smith and the Oracle in M3: the Oracle's choice model for the Matrix made Agents necessary, and also, Smith knows the Oracle gave him the ability to duplicate himself. She created the agent as well as the virus.]

Smith is Neo's opposite in many different ways (purpose, motivation, etc.). One way is how they get power: Neo gains power by bending and breaking all the rules, and Smith gains power by controlling all the rules. This is only doable for Smith if Smith has the ability to control other programs in the Matrix. While this may seem like the most logical choice for a system to counter the One, I don't think it is. I think in the Oracle's first five versions of the Matrix, Smith was instead given the ability to learn and break all the rules, just like Neo. We see this when Neo fights Smiths in the park in M2, when Smith says "More." He is obviously learning from his fight with Neo. Therefore, in previous versions, Smith gained power by learning it from the One, beginning when Neo enters Agent Smith and destroys him (copying a part of himself onto Agent Smith). Thus, their connection. When Neo destroyed Smith in previous versions, Smith still became free but was not able to copy himself - he was only able to follow in Neo's footsteps as Neo gained more power, always trailing behind but never able to overcome Neo (thus his frustration with the One and also his satisfaction in finally killing the One).

Poor Smith, he is the biggest pawn of them all. His very purpose is to do something that the core of the system ensures he cannot do. He is a failure by design, even when made the most powerful program of them all.[/i]

Personally, I think if Neo complied with the architect at the end of reloaded, that Smith would have destroyed everything. Smith is an unforseen event, the machines are blind to the danger he represents, they are focused on the danger they are aware of, Neo. Smith and Neo may be opposites, but they don't require each other to exist... and if Neo complies with the architect he is still around and rebuilding Zion. Smith wouldn't just go poof, how are you going to make him go poof?

Oh, and Smith was not suprised to see Neo enter the matrix at the end of revolutions, he was waiting for him. He had forseen the battle to come... remember? Smith's purpose never ceased to exist, why would he say "No no no, it's not fair" when he is being "sourced" if he no longer thinks he has a purpose? He wants to destroy everything, that is his goal.

Now think in the films... who do we see channeling the source? Neo, it is Neo. He gets sentinals and bombs in the real world, and he is the One in the matrix. If DEM just needs to channel source through someone, he could use anyone... logical machines would to the most logical thing. This is a self sacrifice... remember? and Smith is beyond their control and only Neo can stop him... So... perhaps you could entertain the idea of Neo channeling the source through his own body (he is connected to the machine city so he can do this...) he brings the light into himself, and thus into Smith and they both become one with the source.

I doubt the prime program is the Oracle, so be carefull with how liberal you get there, but then again, perhaps new eyeballs can go somewhere i can not see.

Nice post "Surprised". Makes sense.

Interesting theory, that Neo and Smith don't require each other to exist. If that were the case, then what manifestation does the Architect's role of "balancing of the equation" take on in the movies? In other words, if Neo and Smith aren't manifestation of this role, what things in the movies are? I'm not 100% convinced either way so I'm interested in what you use to back the theory up. I do agree that the idea of Smith going "poof" just because Neo doesn't exist is hard to justify (but probably not impossible - I'm hoping Mobil_Ave_Neo might give us a Smith Poof theory sometime). I'm assuming then that you therefore consider the "cataclysmic crash" threat to be the accumulation of errors due to redpill hacks and missing variables, rather than from Smith's taking over the system.

Yes, Smith was waiting for Neo, but the key is that Smith did not know Neo entered from Machine City (and therefore he acts as the Source). I speculate that Neo's code would have appeared gold after he left the Architect's construct (he was made to be more like a machine but still 'irrevocably human"), or if not then, after he left Mobil Ave. (Link did not recognize Neo's code). When Smith takes over the Oracle, at that point he knows everything that Neo has done in the past, including which door Neo chose and why Neo was placed into Mobil Ave., so he knows Neo would appear gold no matter how he gets into the Matrix. And since Oracle-Smith does not know that Niobe gave Neo her ship (the Oracle only believed), Oracle-Smith thinks Neo is merely hacking in. He has no reason to believe that Neo would be able to reach Machine City. Smith's core programming rejects the part of the Oracle's programming that allows the Oracle to have faith (belief in things unseen).

I'm trying to follow your "channel the Source" thing and I can't see how it's different from saying that DEM deletes Smith through Neo. Doesn't that obviously imply that Neo is being used as a kind of Source, or that DEM is using Neo as a "channel" through which it deletes Neo? I don't think the Source has to be some particular location, construct or program outside of the Matrix. It can be anywhere in Machine City, and certainly when DEM is directly involved. Anyway, I don't disagree with anything you say - I just don't understand how it's different from what I'm saying.

As for your doubt about the Prime Program being the Oracle... my choice of words was a bit loose. More exactly, the Oracle wrote the Prime Program and oversees the running of it in the current Matrix. Given that the Oracle sees everything in the Matrix at all times (not to mention things to come), it isn't hard to assume that she oversees the running of the Prime Program. That is why she is so powerful - she's plugged into everything, even redpills when they hack the Matrix (so in a way this plugs her vision into the real world too). I could write another 2 or 3 screenfuls on this, talking about the "revision history" of the Matrix, but that's going on too far of a tangent from the topic in this discussion. Suffice to say that Oracle-Smith knows enough to know that Neo is coming, but not enough to believe that Neo came through Machine City.

Surprised wrote:

Well, I should point out that the third reason I cited for believing that the Smith virus always existed came from reading one of your posts! However, since making my original post yesterday, I'm no longer convinced. Sorry to disappoint you, I really sincerely am! No matter how many posts I read, I just cannot get past Smiths saying, "It's happening exactly as before. Well, not exactly." No matter what things I come up with to explain what Smith was talking about in that scene, they all seem like a huge stretch.

That's correct. That was my only problem indeed. I kept hanging on that damn sentence from Smith. It would be pretty fucking cool if the W-brothers would tell us about it. I mean, they won't tell us much of their philosophical view, but they sure can share how they technically planned it all.

My explanation of the "exactly as before..."-sentence is that he was the new (upgraded) rookie agent at the rebel meetingpoint near the end of the fifth cycle. Together with Jones and Brown he faced the fifth One for the first time and he got his ass kicked --> "it is happening exactly like before"

But that theory has become a bit bogus since the impression is given that all programs, including agents, are reloaded together with the Matrix. So for that matter, Smith should not have any memories about that episode. This is told in "Matrix Online", but how much canon is that game? I find some of the storylines in that game very weird.

The only logical reason why there weren't any Anti Ones in the previous cycles could be prediction.

The machines predicted that the previous Ones would choose a reload, so they only fired up the pressure by sending normal agents at him.

Now the machines have predicted that the One is not going to choose a reload. So they send in a lethal counterpart that either has to cancel out the integral anomaly OR cause a definitive system crash.

It's like the Oracle told:

If a program (the One) is not doing what it is supposed to be doing (reloading is the function of the One) the system tries to assimilate it (Smith wants to assimilate Neo) --> programs hacking programs!

Hi Mobil Ave,

To your credit, I kind of think Agents and other system programs are given memory of the past. Just like bluepills, system programs can be programmed with whatever memory the system and/or prime program creator chooses. I always assumed this is why Agent Smith knows about the whole revision history of the Matrix. It's not because that exact Smith program has been around for so long - it's because the Agent Smith program was created with the collective memory of all past Agents (this also explains why he remembers his confontation with Seraph long ago). Similarly, the anomalous code for the One is enhanced to incorporate all new forms of redpill thinking from the previous cycle of the One (not to mention what the system learns from Potentials through the Oracle in the last cycle).

And your theory about predicting the One's divergence from purpose is interesting in the way that you relate "programs hacking programs" to "Smith hacking Neo". But when you say "the machines" predicted it, do you mean the Oracle? This isn't anything new - the Oracle probably saw it before Neo was even born - Neo is one of the Oracle's baked noodles. So are you saying the Oracle shared this insight and/or her intentions with the rest of the system (i.e. the Architect, Agents) early on? If not, it's difficult to imagine machines collectively predicting this much when the most "perfect" machine of them all (the Architect) can't see past any choice whatsoever. It seems your theory must imply that the Oracle is sharing her vision with "the machines".

Why does the clash with Seraph has to be ancient?

The current Matrix was running about 100 years or so. Plenty of time for Smith and Seraph to meet each other.

I think the Oralce is the prime program/mother Nature. She IS the system.

By unbalancing (= aiding red pills and the One) she tries to understand the anomaly in order to become a perfect program: evolution in it's purest form.

The Architect only provides the rational coding.

The Oracle unbalances the equation (program acting not optimal), so the Architect tries to balance it again (programmer trying to correct his programs). They are like a couple: fighting and making up

I think the Oracle is responsible for this One being different from the others. She wanted Neo to fall in love, because she purely manipulated Trinity's psyche by stating that she would fall in love with the One.

I think the Architect might have reacted with Smith in order to counter this unbalancing act.

The architect is always trying to achieve balance in the matrix, this is true, but the equation itself is never really balanced. It is not unlike a chemical equalibruim, solutions tend to be uniform but they are not always so at any moment in time, in other words, they are not static, and niether is the matrix. Smith and Neo are opposites, and they (one or both of them) most likely exist in their upgraded states as a result of the equation trying to reach this balance, but it is not something the architect planned, this should be obvious. The machines are so oblivious and in so much denial about Smith and the danger he represents, their is no way they created him on purpose to counteract Neo (although the Oracle may have helped slightly in this regard... Neo still had to destroy Smith himself though, the impossible had to happen).

I don't know what the cataclysmic crash is to be honest as we are never told. We know the perfect matrix pretty much crashed, to many waking up to fast... my best guess is that this is what he is refering too. The accumulation of errors due to redpills freeing minds, which supposedly is the thing fueling this anomaly, will eventually threaten the system itself. The anomaly needs to be patched (see portion of code that is examined temporarily) the matrix rebooted, and the prime program reinserted... the prime program however could be any number of things, from the path of the one, to the matrix, to the equation governing the matrix.

As for Smith not knowing, there is no way to know that for sure, but i'm not sure it is really relavent regardless as I'm pretty sure the one event Smith cannot not see beyond is his victory over Neo... which he has seen, and this alone can explain his part in the end.

The channeling the source thing is a detail, I make the point because if DEM is doing it, he could use any human in a pod to delete Smith. Neo is the one who "touches the source" and while doing so is short circuiting machines. So to me, it is not a strech to think that when equipped to the machine city, he channels this source energy through himself. My point is DEM cannot stop Smith, only Neo can do so. It's not some kind of Neo and DEM team operation... Smith asks "Is it over" and Neo/Smith doesn't say, "I dunno, lemme ask Dues if he's ready to source us yet."

I think i wanted to write more, but it's late so it's best to stop now and see what comes out tommorow, as the brain is tired and i do have to wake up tommorow as well.

hexediter wrote:

Personally, I think if Neo complied with the architect at the end of reloaded, that Smith would have destroyed everything. Smith is an unforseen event, the machines are blind to the danger he represents, they are focused on the danger they are aware of, Neo.

Exactly! Neo is The One. But Smith is the systemic anamoly. That is where the split between the two begins. Neo is not anamolous when we meet him in Reloaded. Everything with him is happening exactly as it has always happened with The One's. Just as Smith says. It's all happening exactly as before with The One, well not exactly because there is a new anamoly, Smith.

If Neo had been inserted into the Source at the end of Reloaded, the systemic anamoly, i.e. Smith, would have crashed the system. And it is not enough for Neo to make the choice to defy the cycles, he must come to understand it. He has to realize that it is inevitable, Smith is the God of the Matrix. Smith is the anamoly which must be reinserted into the Source. He must be disseminated properly and tempered with his human side (Neo).

anamoly or not i believe that smith has a mind all his own and makes his own choices according to his own free will(abiding by the prophecy).

{Morpheus} wrote:

anamoly or not i believe that smith has a mind all his own and makes his own choices according to his own free will(abiding by the prophecy).

Freewill and fate are merely illusions. When you see the world without time, you see that there are no choices nor any lack of them. There is only understanding those choices.

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The channeling the source thing is a detail, I make the point because if DEM is doing it, he could use any human in a pod to delete Smith.

I don't think that's true - DEM couldn't have just used any human in a pod. 1) The human would have first needed to choose to be deleted/killed/whatever, before Smith copied over the human, and 2) The human needed to not understand their own choice. Do you think there is any way in the world I (or anyone else) could get you to go jump off the Empire State Building "because it's important, but I can't tell you why it's important"? Remember it is part of the machines inherent programming that they do not lie (none of them are "merely human"), so it's not like they could make up a different scenario to achieve the same result. Even the Merovingian (the most likely program to want to lie) cannot lie about the lipstick. Avoiding the truth or misleading is as far as he or any machine can go.

DEM is indeed doing the deleting, and this was enabled by Neo's irrational choice. They worked together as a team although it wasn't planned to work out that way. Since Neo did not understand his choice (and since Oracle-Smith did in fact copy over Neo), Neo must not have known what DEM would do after that. It was not planned by anyone but the Oracle, and even that was a leap of faith on the Oracle's part (a leap that Smith would be unwilling to take once he copies over the Oracle).

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When you see the world without time, you see that there are no choices nor any lack of them. There is only understanding those choices.

Time-out. If there are no choices....then how can you say there is "an understanding of them". And if there is no freewill/choices... then why isnt there fate?

sorry if i'm kinda off topic.

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If a program (the One) is not doing what it is supposed to be doing (reloading is the function of the One) the system tries to assimilate it (Smith wants to assimilate Neo) --> programs hacking programs!

Mobil_Ave (and others), I've thought about this clever connection you made for quite a while, and I've managed to assimilate it into my theory... Hear me out and see what you think...

1) The Smith virus never happened before.
2) The Oracle predicts (and arranges of course) that Neo will not fulfill his purpose of the One as the previous 5 did.
3) The Oracle makes this prediction before the 6th version of the Matrix even begins running (as she rewrites the Prime Program for the 6th version).
4) She uses this prediction as justification for giving Agent Smith the ability to manually copy himself over someone else so that the One can still fulfill the purpose later on after the "wrong" choice is made. Thus, the ability to still at least "assimilate" Neo if Neo is unwilling to let his code be disseminated (in that case, nothing would be learned from this iteration of the Matrix, but nothing lost either).
5) The machines are happy with her solution outlined in point #4 because it acts as a safeguard to ensure the system does not crash. Little does any other machine know, this safeguard is a virus that will be used against the machines.

The Therion wrote:

Quote: When you see the world without time, you see that there are no choices nor any lack of them. There is only understanding those choices. Time-out. If there are no choices....then how can you say there is "an understanding of them". And if there is no freewill/choices... then why isnt there fate? sorry if i'm kinda off topic.

Not off topic at all, right on it in fact. We've talked about this before, but it bears repeating. Neo, slowly, is beginning to see the world without time. When you see the world without time, you realize that fate and freewill are not conflicting, in fact they are not real. They are just "vagueries of perception."

An example we've used before is this- you have a bag of candy. In the bag you have 5 pieces of candy and you want to share them with everyone in the office. So you go up to Cindy and say "Would you like some candy?" She chooses a red piece. You go up to Mark and say "Would you like some candy?" He chooses a yellow piece... You keep doing this until all the candy is distributed. Now what if you could rewind the world? What if you could move through time in a different direction? You move backwards through the events that just occured. And of course, you pass by Mark picking the yellow piece and Cindy picking the red piece. The choices they make seem fated. Mark is destined to pick that yellow piece, Cindy is destined to pick the red. But from the other direction it appeared they chose red and yellow.

Which direction is correct? The answer is neither. To see the world without time is to see that choice and purpose are only illusions. Now that freewill and fate have been removed, all that is left is understanding the choice. Why must Cindy have the red candy?

Smith is really just a part of the systemic anamoly, Neo is the individual human who represents the sum of this anamoly, and Smith has become intertwined with Neo(because of you...), and therefore the anamoly. Neo was anamolous in reloaded, but like the architect said, he was still not beyond a measure of controll because he is an expected result of the anomaly. As the agents say... "it is him" "the anamoly".

Suprised:

I don't understand how your 2 reasons prevent DEM from deleting Smith using any human in a pod, if he is indeed doing the deleting. Why does making an irrational choice that you yourself don't understand suddently allow DEM to delete Smith? The machines don't ask for permision to do anything, the choice given to accept or reject the programming is built into the matrix to make it more stable, but every human is still born into the matrix, they are not given an alternative, they must discover it. All references in the film point to Neo and Neo alone as the only thing that can stop Smith. "You are all that stands in his way" "The program Smith has grown beyond your control, soon he will spread through this city as he has spread through the matrix. You cannot stop him, but I can." "And if you fail?" "I won't". This is about Neo and Smith, and the relationship Neo in particular has with the Source, where his power comes from.

By the way, I think Neo knew what he was doing when he finally gave in to Smith, it was his nirvana moment, he was not in the dark here, he was in the light.

well i think differently, i really believe that Smith has his own mind and makes his own decisions...i really think i have something here.

Yeah you said that many times already.

Build it up with arguments please.

well for starters how do u explain smith chosing to return from the source to the matrix to take the purpose away from neo?

Well you need to explain that, since you believe that Smith acts out of individual and genuine choice

well choice is pretty much the ability to think and decide 4 yourself right,right. so he chose to not go to the source and return to exact revenge on neo. he chose to give into his emotions and go back to the matrix and try to destroy neo that being a desire and giving into a desire is a choice, it is not automated(not in this case). point being that smith feels he has emotion just like anyother agent or prgram but responds to it as a human would with reason and logic behind his actions. i believe that covers it...any questions? or critizim?