»Neo's Death in M1«

I am wondering what theories people out there have to explain how Neo came back to life in M1 in a science fiction context? Do you think "mind over death" is one of the many anomalous things encoded into Neo by the Architect when he was young? Did the Architect actively help Neo come back to life? Something else?

He apparently heard Trinity talk to him when his heart was not beating - we find that out in M2 when Neo tells Trinity, "I know you can hear me" - he remembers what Trinity told him while he was jacked into the Matrix and dead. It seems his consciousness wasn't just in the Matrix at that point, but if that's true, how does a physical dead person in the real world "decide" to jump start their heart?

I'm not as interested in answers like "because Trinity told Neo she loved him" or "because God helped Neo" or "because Gandalf the White was offstage casting a life preservation spell". If I am asked to accept answers like these, then I might as well consider the Matrix to be a blur between science fiction and fantasy. Answers like that are very unsatisfying in the context of science fiction - a scriptwriter can accomplish anything by introducing miracle and magic, and it seems like a complete copout to me when it comes to making sense of the script. It's like in some parody film I can't remember, where the Hand of God literally reaches out from the sky to save people from impending doom, and when they state they don't believe in God, the hand disappears and they fall to their death. That's hilarious. The Matrix isn't supposed to be hilarious though, and yet everything seems to point to "Neo came back to life because Trinity told him she loves him and he's therefore the One." Ugh, this answer makes me want to gag...

It was Neo's mind who did it.

Trinity's words/kiss (subconsciously) motivated his mind to act, but it was his mind and his mind alone.

It is true what you say, I too believe that Neo got the anomalous code assigned to him when he was born into the Matrix.

With this code he can break every rule inside the simulation. While dying is also a process that is set by rules, Neo can deny it with the power of his mind.

Maybe his heart had stopped, but the brain lives on for a little while, so I am not suprised that Neo could still subconsciously hear/feel things.

BTW, I think your avatar is funny and original!

Your posts never cease to get the kinks out of my theories and ways of understanding the Matrix movies. I should have realized the brain lives on while the heart stops from watching movies and shows that always show shock treatment being given to people whos hearts have stopped. Neo simply wasn't "pronounced" dead yet, medically speaking. And yes, dying is a bendable/breakable rule in the Matrix just like everything else.

Any ideas for why Neo could be conscious in the real world even though he was jacked in? The software that redpills use to hack the Matrix is incapable of downloading consciousness back into the minds of people jacked in until they reach an exit. Since Neo wasn't at an exit, the fact that he could hear Trinity must mean that he somehow made himself conscious in the real world, then chose to "re-upload himself" back into his place in the Matrix.

My only theory so far is that when the hacking software thinks the person dies in the Matrix, it brings the person's consciousness back to reality. After Trinity's kiss, Neo would have woken up in the real world, but the hacking software reenstated his consciousness back into the Matrix.

Exiting the Matrix, Morpheus and Trinity manage to return to the real world, but Neo is trapped by Agent Smith and his fellow Agents. Smith ambushes Neo and kills him by gunshot. When this happens to a person's mind and neural connections within the simulated reality of the Matrix, their body outside the Matrix also dies, too. Trinity, seeing Neo's body dying with his mind still in the Matrix, tells his apparently lifeless body that he cannot die - she loves him - and that the oracle had foretold that she would love The One. Slipping into death, Neo's mind realizes that he doesn't need to die. He doesn't have to believe in the compelling reality of the simulation or that the Agents have killed him. He can choose to realize it truly is an illusion, and that as a result, his death is an illusion. He rises, and the Agents, stunned, attempt to shoot him down again. But this time he doesn't believe it can truly harm him. He sees the simulation for what it is, simulated bullets in a simulated reality, his mind against the artificial mind of the machines. He simply holds out his hand, and the bullets stop, suspended in mid-air, and then coming to believe more fully in his newfound powers, he effortlessly fends off Agent Smith before diving into the Agent's simulated body to destroy him from within.

Well, whatever you want to believe about this event the Wach’s make it clear that Neo is “resurrected” with the help of Trinity (a little more than just hearing her voice) and that this is indeed a deep moment (Matrix revisited DVD). As is His repetition of the act at the end of M2 (”this makes us even” ~Trinity)

It is also this moment that fulfils what the Oracle said about his Power emanating from the Source ~"The Machine Mainframe" as he clearly sees the underpinnings of the Matrix and changes it as he sees fit.

A lot is going on.

Inevitability wrote:

Well, whatever you want to believe about this event the Wach’s make it clear that Neo is “resurrected” with the help of Trinity (a little more than just hearing her voice) and that this is indeed a deep moment (Matrix revisited DVD).

Here's the audio from the Matrix Revisited DVD that confirms what Inev says: trueredpill.googlepages.com...

Keanu asks Larry how does Trinity know Neo is back and pulls the plug near the end of M1 and Larry answers that they are deeply connected. It's less than 0,5 mb download it and hear it!

Hey thanks man, that’s brilliant!

She KNOWS!

lol

First let's thank Th3 P4th for making that audio available for everyone. After seeing it on DVD it was obvious that Larry W. was simply being partially facetious.

It was a mushy moment between Neo and Trinity to be sure. This was the moment that their love for each other was finally confessed. Inevitability has every right to feel a little hoodwinked because he is absolutely right. This is one of those moments completely glossed over by the writers of a film (i.e. --plothole, and a huge gaping one at that).

Trinity talking to Neo is a bridge, albeit admittedly an imperfect one. It is supposed to be his connection to her that is his motivation for accomplishing what all the others had not...beginning with his resurrection.

Oracle told Trinity that she would fall in love with "the One". She watched him every night on her computer (as stated at the beginning of M1), she brought him dinner after he was freed from the Matrix (a wifely act of love, to be sure). He resurrects himself after being (apparently) fatally shot by Smith. Ultimately he makes the fateful decision to choose the other door because he cares more for Trinity than the lives of the entire world (I guess you could say he, literally, would not give her up for the whole world). They were simply trying to reinforce her significance to him and his mission.

But I have a more straightforward explaination.
Neo didn't die. Not the way Morpheus led us to believe in any case.

We all remember Mouse being riddled with bullets in the first movie after Cypher delivered them all into the hands of the agents. Mouse dies the same way Neo did. By gunshot, sprayed with bullets until he fell dead. We all watched as Mouse violently shook in his chair and blood gushed from his mouth and then his heart stopped. As Morpheus said, "the mind makes it real". Neo too is repeatedly shot with a high powered weapon, and while he bleeds in the Matrix he does not bleed in the real world.

My interpretation of this is simple. It is all a part of Neo's "path". This is the way Architect and Oracle intended for it to go down. His resurrection was a necessary event, but his death was not. They only needed for something profound to happen to him in order for him to cross the rubicon and accept his role as anamoly/the one/ and savior.

Oracle needed Neo to disbelieve he was the One long enough to save Morpheus (Oracle needed to undo Cypher's betrayal--for her gambit to work she couldn't let Morpheus die and Neo of course would not have gone back into the Matrix if he had believed himself to be the One). But once Morpheus was saved they needed to have Neo do an instant 180 degree turn and now whole-heartedly believe he IS the One.

Neo knew a fatal event had happened to himself. But now here he is, alive and well. Since we know nothing happened in the film by happenstance I think it is worth noting that Neo does not see the Matrix in code until AFTER he stops the bullets.

His resurrection is the moment he stops being Thomas Anderson:computer hacker turned ordinary cyber rebel, and becomes Neo/The One/The Integral Anamoly. His mind is now totally freed. His transformation is complete when he raises his hand to stop the bullets. He wouldn't have raised his hand unless he completely and totally believed. Otherwise he simply would have done what he had been doing---run!

Trinity's kiss and talking to him while "dead" is a bridge that takes us from Neo being an ordinary rebel to Uberman/Neo with a strong inexplicable connection to Trinity (that will be expoited by the Oracle at a later time). Inevitability is correct. Trinity's kiss is a plot device (albeit perhaps a not totally satisfying one) that marks for us Neo's crossing certain plateaus.

But I believe his coming back to life was written into the program by Arc and Oracle. After all, not only MUST the anamoly make an appearance to avert the disaster of the Matrix crashing, but he must also show up ON TIME! Otherwise the program will run too and and still crash. Allowing the anamoly to be killed by ANYONE (and I believe this includes Cypher pulling the plug as well) would have ruined the ENTIRE plan.

In Reloaded we see Neo take a sword to the hand. While it cuts him it doesn't kill him. The Architect won't allow that to happen. And so on more than one occasion we see people able to hurt Neo but no one is able to kill Neo. I believe it is a built in fail safe to protect this cycle of The Matrix from unforeseen events (such as stray bullets or human traitors who might try to kill the one in the real world).

So to answer Inevitability, in my humble opinion, I think it's clear Trinity's kiss didn't "resurrect" Neo. It only "awakened" him.

Evolusionary wrote:

First let's thank Th3 P4th for making that audio available for everyone.

No no.. Thank you!

I edited your post to become more readable.. LOL please don't post again such a long post without a readable structure! I have a headache now!

I knew something had changed

Had a deja vu? It's not me, it's the System.

Evolusionary, I loved your post (hats off to th3 p4th for editing as well)! I had never considered that the purpose for Neo’s powers was to protect him. I had always thought it was either a side effect of the code he carried, or that the code he carried somehow granted him access to the Source. But neither of those explanations was very satisfying.

I currently believe that the Architect does not decide who is going to be the One, but rather that it is a naturally occurring phenomenon which happens at a certain point in time and is probably tied to how many rejections of the Matrix there have been (which contribute to the systemic anomaly). So at a certain point in time when the anomaly reaches a certain size, it integrates into a sum total and attaches itself to the next person who rejects the Matrix. If that person dies, it goes to the next person who rejects the Matrix. And so on and so forth.

Based on your theory, it only makes sense that the Architect can detect who the recipient of the integral anomaly is. He would then empower this person with the Source and start him on the Path of the One. This path would serve several purposes:

1) To acquaint the One with the powers that are available to him
2) To create an attachment between the One and the masses
3) To lead the One to the Architect’s chamber to choose 23 individuals to rebuild Zion

I love your theory because I always had difficulty trying to figure out what the effect the integral anomaly had on the One and what effect the Source had. The Oracle states flat out that the One’s power comes from the Source. So that means that the integral anomaly is just something that the One carries—it’s what makes him the Anomaly. But the Source is what gives him power, to protect him while he’s on the Path of the One to help ensure that he’ll make it to the end so that he’ll do what the Architect wants him to do. Everything along the path—the agents, the Merovingian, etc.—are all part of the big test that help expand the One’s consciousness.

I liked his post too, that's why I edited it! Usually when I see posts with a lot of text without even one 'enter' pressed I just ignore them. I don't read them.

Thank you for the kind words Feral. As you can tell I finally figured out why I wasn't able to post. I believe it was the fact I was using AOL but thank you for trying ot help. In any case, it is no secret you are one of the most knowledgable and I would dare say enlightened individuals when it comes to The Matrix. However, I have an alternative view when it comes to interpreting the films.

First of all I try to see it from the view of a writer trying to make a point. In the end we all know Matrix is a gigantic metaphor. In fact it is metaphor on top of metaphor. Rather than trying to just dissect the individual events I try to just connect the dots from the basic points the W. Bros are trying to make and attempt to decipher the natural conlusion. Some things the Wachowskis are able to spell out for us in detail, but other things they are only able to glance upon briefly and then move on. I believe the details of the powers of the One is chief among these.

I believe the One is chosen. I do not believe he is in fact "made". Since we don't really have any details about how the Integral Anamoly manifests itself upon an individual person we are all left to speculate upon how this is accomplished. But considering the fact that from the beginning it is all a system of control where choice is only a carefully contrived illusion I think it is safe to say the machines (Architect and Oracle) leave nothing to chance. How could they? If the One does not show up exactly WHERE he is supposed to WHEN he is supposed to then it will lead to disaster. For this reason I believe he walks a "sheltered" path. Here are my facts...

We all know the Oracle created the "prophecy" and conjured the One up as a system of control. Humanity, once free from the Matrix would only wander around in any number of directions, but she wants humanity to move in a SPECIFIC direction: back to the Matrix. She tells all the humans that the man who freed them all will be reincarnated and that all they have to do is wait for him. But she is not content to do just that. Just in case humanity is too dense or grows undetermined to find the One the Oracle plants a seed in the mind of Morpheus. She tells him specifically "All these people are looking for the One but you will be the one who finds him." From there Morpheus thinks he is self-motivated when in fact he is responding to suggestion. All the while he hasn't asked himself "Hey, how do you know that I, specifically, will find the One?"

Morpheus always chalked it up to a mystical or "divine" plan.
Morpheus: "I believe it is our fate to be here....It is our destiny."
I think it is fairly obvious the Oracle not only told Morpheus he would find the One but also told him who and where to look. Of all the red pills they could have chosen why did they fixate on Neo? Oracle was pulling the strings...again. She told them where and when to find him. She could tell him this because she was watching the clock and it was "time" to awaken the One. They left nothing to chance.

Morpheus said "the body cannot live without the mind" but Neo proved he could survive his mind being seperated from his body in Reloaded when he stopped the sentinels. The question isn't "how did he do it". The real question is "how did he survive it?" I believe he survived it because he was never in any real danger. It was necessary that the illusion be compelling enough for Morpheus and Neo. Whether you believe Neo had a wireless connection to the Source or that his connection to the Source was rigged to allow a break in the connection the end result is that Neo was afforded special abilities not allowed to other humans in the Matrix. I do not believe it was an accident.

Once again, They left nothing to chance.

If the Matrix is simply a giant rat maze, if it is nothing more than a giant illusion meant to deceive you into believing what you see is real when the killing truth is that none of it is real, then it only goes to reason that the "threats" to Neo's life were another system of control all intended to make sure those around Neo were totally taken in by the Path of The One as well.

Evolusionary, I understand what you're saying about the Architect and Oracle not wanting to leave anything to chance, and I've even shared that opinion in the past. One of the things that changed my mind, however, was a single word: eventuality.

The Architect states that Neo is the eventuality of an anomaly. If you look up the word "eventuality" you will see that it means a possible outcome or result. This would not be the word the Architect would use if the One was planted purposefully and with full knowledge. On the contrary, the Architect describes a possible result of behavior that he views as aberrant. But it's actually helpful to the Architect that the anomaly integrates and becomes attached to a single person, because it makes it that much easier to control. All they have to do is find a way to guarantee that that person will then come to the Source and disseminate the code. That's where the Path of the One comes in, with its prophecy and series of hoops that must be jumped through.

Now you could say that the Architect was being deceptive by using the word "eventuality" but when you approach the Matrix movies in this fashion it becomes a slippery slope where you pick and choose which quotes are lies and which are truth. But I do not believe that this is the best method of interpretation. I believe it's possible to come to a coherent understanding of the movies even if you take everyone at face value. It's admittedly more difficult, but choosing to stick to that methodology has been extremely rewarding for me, and has forced me to really think outside the box. And when I'm unable to do that, the rest of the fantastic people on this forum provide their genius ideas. For instance, I absolutely love your idea of the One's power being provided as a safety mechanism. I'd never thought of it that way, and it really expanded my understanding.

Please understand, however, that I'm not saying you're wrong about the other stuff and I'm right--I'm just telling you why I disagree with you. These are all just opinions, and it's fun to share opinions and discuss them.

It's odd to see someone admit that the Matrix trilogy is largely allegoric in nature and then turn around and say that Neo is "chosen."

If the trilogy is an allegory with a direct message, what is that message?--

Free your mind and the rest will follow.

--seems like a likely candidate for the message of the films. In which case, it seems unlikely that Neo didn't have to free anything, he was just chosen by cosmic lottery to be the messiah? That doesn't sound like the thinking of a free-your-mind writer.

What I will say may be outrageous, But it makes sense.

I have said in previous posts that neo is the holy trinity, And I still stick to that. I also still believe that Trinity is neos soul mate. As they were meant for each other, And trinity's name gives it away.

I also know that hinduism plays a part in the matrix movie. The oracle even states this when she says that neo might be waiting for his next life. She also says that this is how things work.

Now with that in mind.

Think about the possibility that neo and trinity have some sort of higher soul link to each other. And that half of the soul had to believe to make the other half believe.

Neo's mind is real and does live on after the heart stops. And trinity is in the real world, Thus maybe the matrix is trying to tell us that reincarnation is real in the movie. That would also point out that neo was the same man as the first one..

The oracle obviously knew more about things than we thought..

This points out that the real world is real and the matrix movie ended with m1.
Or the real world is not real in m2 and m3

But if the real world wasnt real.. What would be the REAL point in saving it?

I agree with evolusionary on the same points as feral boy. What happens is at a level higher than the Oracle and Architect but they become part of an attempt to deal with it.

She told them exactly what they needed to hear.

But I have a question. If you think the One's powers are for protection and show, why do they continue after Neo went astray from the path of the One?

While I am in no way able to speak for Andy and Larry Wachowski I can offer my interpretation of the films. So I would like to address Feral Boy and Intell's questions.

This is only my take and is worth what it cost you to read it (unless you're a broad band user in which case that could be a dollar and 12 testicles a day! so I'll try to keep it brief). Mobil_Ave_Neo, one of the elders of this site, gave an absolutely brilliant interpretation of the anamoly with his incredible idea to translate the Architect's speech to Neo into layman's terms. One of the terms he chose to transpose is "eventuality" which Feral referenced. He came across the definition that defined eventuality as "a possible outcome". It is true this is the primary definition used by most dictionaries but the secondary definition (right here in my handy-dandy Oxford New World Collegiate dictionary) is "unavoidable result" such as "The eventuality of blowing all your money on Matrix memorabilia is you will go broke." Not only is it "possible" but it is "unavoidable".

Architect: While it is a burden assiduously avoided (he is trying to avoid it by subverting human will thru the agency of the One) it is not unexpected (not only is it expected it is "inevitable". Oracle makes it a point after each cycle to tell humanity he WILL return, not he MIGHT return.) Zion is built as a final staging ground to correct the red pill problem and increase the machine knowledge of humanity to stop the problem of rejecting the Matrix. The humans think it is sanctuary but in reality it is the machines way of using the anamoly to wipe itself out i.e. the One. But Zion gets a good running start long before the integral anamoly is ever located and freed. Would the machines inact Zion if the One making an appearance is only a possibility?

Of course I freely concede Feral and Mobil_Ave_Neo and many others could be absolutely correct and I could be dismally mistaken (hey are you going to believe a bunch of Matrix scholars who've written literally thousands of posts or me! With less than 10 posts to my name!) It is one of the points of conjecture left open to debate. And I freely concede my "evidence" is far from concrete. Other opinions are cheerfully invited.

Intell, one of our other resident elders, asked about the One's powers being for show. Let me clarify. I didn't say his "powers" are for show. I said the "threats" to him were. But let's not say "for show". I prefer to say the threats in the Matrix are not as dire for Neo as they are for everyone else. Obviously the Matrix has the ability to knock off Neo like anyone else. He tried to fight an agent in the first movie. While he did better then most the outcome was the same. He ran and finally died. Any human left to his own devices, even with the ability to circumnavigate the "rules" of the computer system will eventually be defeated until he conciously manifests the powers of the One. In the meantime you have to leave him totally clueless to the threats hovering all around him. How then can you make sure he survives long enough to be awakened?

If we say Neo was not protected then we must say that he was merely lucky (which would coincide with Oracles statement of "I didn't know....but I believed" since the outcome then would have been seriously in doubt--see? I can see both sides of it) but we then have to also say the machines took an outrageous risk allowing the One to go into multiple situations where he could have been easily killed by loose-cannon agents bent on taking him out. For someone like the Architect who thrives on "harmony of perfection" this does not (to me) seem congruent. Once again, the guy with less than a dozen posts concedes he may be wrong.

On another note CaptPostMod posed an interesting question. Since I follow the motivations of the writers before trying to decipher the motivations of the characters your question makes sense. What was the point? Th3 P4th recently did us all another charity (when he's not slicing my posts ) and posted the W. Bros introduction to the Matrix DVD boxset. They said their main motivation in writing the movie was to address the one word question "why". They also say they wanted to invite debate as in the days of Socrates. I suppose we are all the fruition of this. A bunch of educated, introspective men talking about the really BIG questions. In that they succeeded. When I read Capt's post I immediately thought of Neo asking Morpheus about the Oracle "And she's never wrong?" to which Morpheus replies "Try not to think of it in terms of right and wrong..."

I try to see the movie as only part allegory and part literal (literal as far as the characters are concerned). Allow me to clarify something else again. When I said Neo was "chosen" I meant the Oracle and Architect had prior knowledge that he was the Integral Anamoly. None of us is sure how this process takes place which makes Feral Boy's theory and Mobil_Ave_Neo's or almost anyone else's just as valid. My particular take is that the Architect and Oracle have to have a hand in it. Remember, the Agents are part of the system but they had to be led by the hand by Cypher (Agents Brown and Jones "The informant is 'real'....We have the name of their next target. His name is Neo") to learn Neo's identity. That makes it obvious that before Morpheus no one had the slightest inkling that Neo was even a red pill. No one but the Oracle (if you follow my theory, of course).

It was not a "cosmic lottery" so much as it is a literary device. The Wachowskis try to make a number of points. Some explicit, some implicit. They spell out for you the major themes that they don't want you to miss (The question of "why", choice and "purpose") with long eleborate speeches by major characters, but other seemingly pivotal things are left with no clear explaination. How Neo becomes Neo being one. For that reason I say that they don't want us to concentrate on how he became the One as much as they want us to concentrate on what he did with it once he became the One and how he turned a vicious cycle of "that's just the way things are" and made a different outcome, and thus a different world possible. The point was to initiate dialogue about the truths they were trying to convey. Dissect the movie too much (which ironically is ALL we do here) and you'll hit the unavoidable inconsistency.

Oh man, well there just went "I'll be brief!"

Someone is having fun with my posts again, I see. But considering I work for Comcast I can see the irony!

The one was chosen because he is the best person.. The kindest, Most giving, most talented. And smart in his own special way..

The idea that neo is an anomaly is wrong...

Neos position is on the right hand side of god, Not the left.
The left handedness is given to the machines and smith.

some clues...

1. Neo uses his right hand to will his powers.
2. Neo prefers to run to the right door when he is being chased by the agents at the end of m1.
3. Smith is waiting to the left.
4. After neo defeats smith, Neo runs into 303 which is to his right to join with trinity.. NUMBER 3.
5. Neo sticks his left middle finger up at smith near the beginning. The left hand is the sinister hand and was regarded as being the wrong side hand in the past.
It shows that neo was having a real go at smith.

Also..

If you make the middle finger gesture with your left hand, And turn your hand to the left. You will see that the figure 6 is created..

666... 3 left hands making a mockery of the trinity..

I dont know.... Sounds fishy

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote:

5. Neo sticks his left middle finger up at smith near the beginning.

From en.wikipedia.org... about Keanu Reeves:

Quote:

Reeves is fond of chess, motorcycles, ice hockey, and ping-pong. He is left-handed, but plays the bass guitar right-handed and loves punk rock bands such as The Ramones, The Sex Pistols, and The Clash, as well as legendary R&B singers such as Stevie Wonder and Otis Redding.

Keanu is the actor and neo is the character.

real life people are different to who they play in the movies. Even if they look alike.

Then taking the red pill was something evil because he took it with his left hand. So the red pill was a lie from Morpheus.