»'MWAM Threory' Is Rubbish«

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Tsukasa wrote: Here's My Backing Of The MWAM theory. If It's "Rubbish", then explain to me how neo can see code in revolutions. How does he know which bomb to choose, how does the sentinal effect him? Answer that scientist Dude, I also support MwM, but if u wait long enough, every one else(every one here is against MwM) will likely answer u the following: "Cuz Neo's got a connection to the source" "Cuz he is part machine(cyborg) and can transmit wireless connection to hack the machines from the source and somehow manage to manipulate physical obejcts in the real world(cuz he has a connection to the source)" "Cuz his powers come from the matrix all over to the sourcein, thus he can manipulate magincaly physical objects in the real world by just thin thinking it" Dude I can come with at least 10 stupid reason the movie and this people him to the MwM to refutate it. It's not "magical", it's physical. It's electromagnetic. He can't "manipulate magically physical objects in the real world just by thinking it". For example, he never makes things float in mid-air or flies. He can, however, interact with the electromagnetic frequency of the Source. For example, broacasting his signal into the Matrix, receiving the EM frequency of the machines allowing him to 'see' them, and short-circuiting oncoming sentinels.

Ok, let me start good, and make sure u get it bro (i'm as tired as u on discusing this now-meaningless-topic)

"magically" in my post, as u obviously seem to take as literal, is not as it is. Dude just think, for a second think as u do so well(cuz your explanations are far more inteligent and developted than mines;and i'm not being ironic), DOES MAGIC EXIST? U can answer yourself bro. Then why Oh why would I say "magically" in a literal sense? I really don't know. But please stop taking every post in a literal sense, cuz I'm gonna state more of yours afterwards, where u are AGAIN stating me on literal interpretations of my posts.

Please.
Thanx.

Second, I know u have said(and the movie has) a million times the "!reasons" on why neo does what he does, and how he does it. When I reffered to "magically" I meant that there is no way in this world(even in the future, ie: science fiction) that a event like that can happen, ever.
Do you really think that the machines have made an anomaly(to start)? Then, assuming that u believe that, do u really think that the machines went into trouble to make a anomaly with those kind of atributes? Again, asuming u believe that, do u really think that a "cyborg" human being, with all that shit of the anomaly, and some connection in the back of his/her neck(even if its complexity is far beyond our capabilities to understand it), can ACTUALLY CONTROL AN ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE? And then, recieve also los EM? You stated me thaat it was wrong to say that he does that just by "thinking it", but when u explain it, it leaves no other solution for it to be explained. HOW ELSE DOES HE TRIGGER THE CONTROLING OF THE ELECTROMAGNETIC PUSLE? By an order? BY his words? By a paper with a declaration of permission for a broadcast of EM's? U can answer that urself again. He does that in only ONE way...and I don't really know if it was by thinking it, but maybe something close enough to it.

Finally, all that explanation of Neo's abilities, and that the Oracle says and states it perfectly(or that it should be interpetated perfectly by many of us who "are blinded by the truth and can not see beyond the leaves of the trees) is told in a REALLY DIFFERENT WAY than what u say in uncoming posts of this I'm quoting.

Just when does the Oracle say something REALLY close(hey, be carefull, REALLY close, not something close, or that has a connection with it, or that means the same, REALLY) to your absolutely coherent explanation(cuz if that would have being said in the movies by the oracle, damn i would have never thought of the MwM theory)?
Where does the Oracle say(or someone else, pephaps the Arch, that Neo and all the Ones, where created, that they where made in such way that they would be able to transmit(or control, whatever it is) Em waves? where and who said in the trilogy that they where(the anomalies) so physically capable of controling Em waves, cuz of the part machine they had on them? That they could actually control in a sense the matrix outside the matrix in the way that all the energy that the machines had in them(cuz that's the whole point of the Matrix,to convert energy to use it for their benefit; besides many other points of the matrix) could also be "bended" by the One? By that which was made different than the others? Where oh, where(don't answer me the oracle, the arch, that's bullshit, and yes I understand preaty much the meaning of what they both said, I u persist, I can explain it to u. And I don't wanna sound pathetic and Ego, but I understood the Arch's speech the first time I saw the Matrix reloaded on may 5th 2003).

If all of above where to be true, I apologise, cuz I was wrong. But I can not see a part in the movies where the Explanation of Neo's abilities was adressed the way u have done. Nowhere. yes it was adressed in a different perspective, but I know u know that Matrix revolutions was badly criticied(spell?) by many for the lack of answers it promesed. If I had that explanation(again) of yours bro, I would not be asking all this know, cuz all the Oracle and the Arch state are obvious stuff to us now, such as "there has been 5 matri'x, the matrix is recycled, the One has powers that come from the source, to all over the matrix and extened beyond it to the real world". Lol, dude, just let me know when and how the Arch or the Oracle stated or saied the following:

"Your powers are the eventuality of a process that we(the Architect and me) have come up to, as to a solution to the choice problem inhereted to every human being, thus they can choose not to acept the matrix, and make in a long term of time the system itself unstable, therefore producing an eventuality(you), called the integral anomaly, that if left unchecked,as well as the whole anomaly problem(choice problem), could make the matrix colapse into ruins again as those past matrix have failed. Your powers have being predeterminated, they have being produced and inhereted into your body since bith day. To explain my self, let me begin from what you should already know: every human being is part machine, and as you well know, every human being also has a complex neural and electrical system in its body, that in unity with what we produce for your bodies to be able to jack into the matrix VIA CABLE, thus making it posible for a connection to be made to connect to the system of the matrix. But you already knwe that. Now What is the catch with your knew powers? You knew that if you believed in yourself, and knew that you where the One, you could make anything posible inside the matrix system. You could bend and break every rule in it, to the point u could even fly inside it. It is all an illusion, then why not? But this canm not be done by anyone. A normal red pill human being can go beyond any ordinary blue pill ignorant human being, pushing the rules to a point no one could ever imagine. This as you well know has a limit, as every thing in life has. They, as in difference form you neo, have not the integral anomaly on them, they can manipulate the matrix, on the sense that if they believe in it not being true, they can bend the rules. But no, you can break them,why? Cuz you have the main program of the matrix, in your body there is a code, named the prime code, the prime program, in which the functioning of the matrix is based upon. It is that prime program that when self consiousness of it, it makes it posible for you toi break some rules, cuz inside the very self of that prime program lies the very escense of the matrix, the very escense of the "choice problem", the anomaly problem, your problem; the integral anomaly problem: you. When you where able to know your self, you triggered something that no one else could; now you could see the code of the matrix, its construction, its foundations, it rules, and ignore them; every thing inside it is now in your control.
But I have still not answered your question right? Your powers in the real world. Why now this you ask to me? Well very simple: all that neural and cyborg connection inside your body, in unity with the integral anomaly and prime program wou carry inside your body, and most importantly your now new ability to stop any machine connected to the source via electromagnetic waves that can be manipulated as you even think or wish it, can be done by you. Your connection to the source is far more complex and deep than you think, it comes from the matrix and the machine mainfram(the source), whre your powers where made, and are born, to all over the matrix itslef and now the real world. You are part machine, you have a connection to the source, and know you can manipulate an electromagnetic wave anytime you want, to a certain limit(obviously), when you stoped those sentinels you where not ready for it, you almost died, but you weren't ready for that either it seems. But now that you somehow jacked into a place called "mobile ave" that is in between the matrix and the real world, you can see where all this comes from right? You have a really complex neural system, in couple with the cyborg part you have been given by us, you can even transmit and recieve electromagnetic waves to connect to the matrix with no cable. Didn't I told you that neo? yes noo if you wish, just wish or think you wanna connect to the matrix, and viola! You are inside the "nowhere" trapped in mobile ave in a second. You could even enter the matrix, put I will leave that up to your descovery"

-Oracle and or Architect- The Matrix 2003(realoded, revolutions)

Now, something more apopiate to a movie, but close to that should be in the trilgy right? cuz I simplly did not see it it seems. Where is that above said in the trilogy please?

PiukNeo.

[quote="max314"][quote="PiukNeo"]

Tsukasa wrote:

He can't "manipulate magically physical objects in the real world just by thinking it". For example, he never makes things float in mid-air or flies. He can, however, interact with the electromagnetic frequency of the Source. For example, broacasting his signal into the Matrix, receiving the EM frequency of the machines allowing him to 'see' them, and short-circuiting oncoming sentinels.

Now, my turn. I know he does not make thing flaot in mid air. But how can he activate that function of "intercation with electromagnectic frecuencies?

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: ...every human being is a cyborg, not becasue they are part machines, part humans, but cuz they have holes in their whole body, and a big neural connection in the back of the neck which alows them to jack into the matrix and transform the electric siganls from the matrix into neural transmition to the brain, all in a machinery complex behind the head. So they are kind of cyborgs. Okay, so you accept my position on pod borns being cyborgs. That's a good step. Now, do you think it would be impossible for the machines to have designed the body of the Anomaly in a unique way to allow for an electromagnetic connection to grant him abilities to connect to the Source? Would this connection to the Source not explain why it is Neo, and Neo alone, who is the One (i.e. can manipulate the Matris, itself derived from the Source)? Would this connection to the Source not also explain all of Neo's subsequent powers? Powers made latent by the machines, but triggered after Neo's rejection of the cyclical system of the Matrix? If the answers to the above questions are "yes", then you have realised that the words of the Oracle in Revolutions are cohesive, complete, and perfectly logical; thus ending the discusssion.

As I stated, if that or you above, only that ,instead of the bullshit of the Oracle's explanation, would have been inb Revolutions, I would not be here. And many mwM believers.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: {Morpheus} wrote: well if there is a matrix within a matrix then that would mean there r how many one's....makes not a bit of &^$&^ sense! not to me at least. I forgot to put into my big-theory-on-the-start-of-this-thread, but it is immposible to make infinite matrix's. Imagine there were 2, the "real world" would also have the anomaly problem(by choice), so some would reject it, but it's really different here, cuz outside in the Real World for true, machines now can destroy any human being that comes aware of the fact of that reality. Just imagine it, a human being for one reason gets out(whichever it woulb be, can't imagine anyone who can get out of two matrix's), then the machines could do the same as in the "real world" of the matrix and let some live, so a Zion can be populated, put here they can kill them, cuz there is no need of prophecy and Zion to be built outside here. Ok, that is just a guess of hypothetical stuff. The question u said. There can be at most 2 matrix's Morph, cuz if there would be more than that, there would be "as many" anomalies in those systems to worry about. So too many anomalies would be in fact a mayor problem to the machines. Would never work. Instead, here there is two posibilities: either there is One matrix, with a sigle anomaly problem, or Two matrix's, with 2 anomaly problems. Simple. Infinite matrix's = Infinite Anomalies As you said, this is all "just a guess of hypothetical stuff". What has left me confounded and confused is this incessant need of yours to ignore the facts presented in the trilogy and go off on this tangent of admitted "hypothetical stuff".

I don't know if you entered the right forum bro,but i believe this forum is for many many discussions, and many many THEORIES, thus a theory means that it has not being tested into experiment that verify its veracity and transform the "theory" into "a fact, a law". Sorry, but that's the reality here.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Well that is the whole point of MwM, Complete control over Humans, COMPLETE. And I saw in the animatrix movies that they won, it is clearly shown. Uh...the machines won the war, yes. But what has that got to do with the machines' obvious inability to create a perfect system? Winning the war doesn't mean that their design of the Matrix is "complete". They're two completely different things.

You again, and your comments with no on earth knowledge. Bro, in a good manner, if you take everything literal in life, you are not gonna make it through it. And also, to your mistake and knowledge: I said "they won, i saw it on animatrix, it is shown in amimatrix" whatever it was, cuz someone else posted that the machines did not won the war, thus I refeered to the war and battle on animatrix, to state the fact that machines did won the war back then, thus it is why they enslaved man to the matrix. No more than that, not a deeper meaning, or that by saying "won" y meant that now the machines have "absolute control" over human beings or whatever. Nope.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: {Morpheus} wrote: o this is about the ani-matrix. i thought it was the original matrix film we were talking about. and i also think alyce is right about that. complete control over the humans is impossile. Well you're talking a little obvious here Morph bro. We live in a world of Relativity remember? Nothing can be perfect, nothing can be 100% anything. So not even control of anything. But you just said in your previous post that "the whole point of MwM [is] Complete control over Humans, COMPLETE. And [you] saw in the animatrix movies that they won, it is clearly shown" So which one is it?

Again? no bro this can't be, i'm on a matrix and this it not real. I wish haha.

Taking it literal again.

I already clarified it, but in short again: this world is a world of relativities, nothing is 100% sure(only death), thus my COMPLETE stating in one of my posts was not literal, thus it did not mean that it was 100% control over them, but nearly it.

just think. U do it preaty well. If you were a chick, and were really hot, and I was in love with you, and I told ya :" you are perfect for me, and you are the most beautiful girl I have ever seen" Would all that be 100% perfect, or certain? nope, how can anyone be the most perfect human being(physically and phycologically), no way. Just think dude, your not strupid, neither am I.

max314 wrote:

intell wrote: MWaM is a belief that arises out of a lack of understanding many key points of the story that attempts to explain the story in a way that makes sense only when those key points are ignored altogether. Absolutely. And I am at a loss to explain why it is that - even when this thread clearly addresses the actual evidentiary stance of the trilogy's explanations, there are people who still refuse to see the forest for the trees.

The last thing I sgould quote form u these time, I gotta go, I'm really busy with University now.

As I already stated, where is that? Yopur explanation is far different form the Arch's and Oracle's. Acept it. It should have been what u say, not what it was said.

Either the Wachowsky's commited a big error on science fisction by not leaving it clear(as you do here), or they actually intended to make a MwM theory on the trilogy.

Simple.

Quote:

Either the Wachowsky's commited a big error on science fisction by not leaving it clear(as you do here), or they actually intended to make a MwM theory on the trilogy.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. LOL!

Or more information about these technical issues would be a spoiler for MxO since the story is an ongoing one. Simple.

ps. You are so going to get it for all these posts, lmao!

intell wrote:

Quote: Either the Wachowsky's commited a big error on science fisction by not leaving it clear(as you do here), or they actually intended to make a MwM theory on the trilogy. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. LOL! Or more information about these technical issues would be a spoiler for MxO since the story is an ongoing one. Simple. ps. You are so going to get it for all these posts, lmao!

That's my whole point here! MxO is ongoing, therefore, anything can be put into picture by the bros. Thst's exactly why I keep believing in MwM till the day(besides my arguments on why the trilogy does not explain the holes it has on neo's powers in the real world as Max does).

Intell, what do u mean on that? What do u mean that i'm gonna get it for all those posts? lol, also when I put in () that Max explained neo's powers(up here in your quote), i refered that he DID EXPLAIN IT WELL. Just a quote in-case-anyone did not understand.

intell wrote:

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. LOL!

Loved that post Lmao! Hahaha. I must be a Sith in fact. Dman it!

Quote:

What do u mean that i'm gonna get it for all those posts?

Wait till Max314 sees all this. I'll let him lead the first strike because I'm busy in another couple of topics that I must respond to right now.

But I will say that the technical aspects such as the EM field and the Machine/Program inhabitants of that spectrum should explain alot of the how's. Why didn't the Bros. insert such an explanation into the movie for you, maybe because they wanted to draw more attention to the subtext.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, let me start good, and make sure u get it bro (i'm as tired as u on discusing this now-meaningless-topic) "magically" in my post, as u obviously seem to take as literal, is not as it is. Dude just think, for a second think as u do so well(cuz your explanations are far more inteligent and developted than mines;and i'm not being ironic), DOES MAGIC EXIST? U can answer yourself bro. Then why Oh why would I say "magically" in a literal sense? I really don't know. But please stop taking every post in a literal sense, cuz I'm gonna state more of yours afterwards, where u are AGAIN stating me on literal interpretations of my posts. Please. Thanx.

I interpreted the expression "magical" as meaning 'unfounded'.

I didn't take it literally.

PiukNeo wrote:

Second, I know u have said(and the movie has) a million times the "!reasons" on why neo does what he does, and how he does it. When I reffered to "magically" I meant that there is no way in this world(even in the future, ie: science fiction) that a event like that can happen, ever. Do you really think that the machines have made an anomaly(to start)? Then, assuming that u believe that, do u really think that the machines went into trouble to make a anomaly with those kind of atributes? Again, asuming u believe that, do u really think that a "cyborg" human being, with all that shit of the anomaly, and some connection in the back of his/her neck(even if its complexity is far beyond our capabilities to understand it), can ACTUALLY CONTROL AN ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE? And then, recieve also los EM? You stated me thaat it was wrong to say that he does that just by "thinking it", but when u explain it, it leaves no other solution for it to be explained. HOW ELSE DOES HE TRIGGER THE CONTROLING OF THE ELECTROMAGNETIC PUSLE? By an order? BY his words? By a paper with a declaration of permission for a broadcast of EM's? U can answer that urself again. He does that in only ONE way...and I don't really know if it was by thinking it, but maybe something close enough to it.

1. - Machines need to create an Anomaly that has attributed within the Matrix to make people believe that he is the One in order to get the One to come to the Architect's chamber under the guise of 'saving humanity'.

2. - The solution they come up with is to make one of their cyborg pod-borns able to hook into the Source (hey, sentinels do it all the time when those little antennas flip open). This will allow the Anomaly to have power over the Matrix.

3. - However, there is the problem of having the Anomaly command power over the entire Source. Therefore, they cut off the Anomaly's power to being limited to just the Matrix.

4. - They build in a fail-safe device in case the Anomaly should try to tap into his/her greater capacity. That fail-safe is death. Neo "should be dead", but his love for Trinity kept him from dying, instead having him drop out of his body and broadcast his own residual self image into the Mobil Avenue station...a gateway between the Source and the Matrix.

Hopefully that's the last time I'm going to have to explain it.

PiukNeo wrote:

Finally, all that explanation of Neo's abilities, and that the Oracle says and states it perfectly(or that it should be interpetated perfectly by many of us who "are blinded by the truth and can not see beyond the leaves of the trees) is told in a REALLY DIFFERENT WAY than what u say in uncoming posts of this I'm quoting. Just when does the Oracle say something REALLY close(hey, be carefull, REALLY close, not something close, or that has a connection with it, or that means the same, REALLY) to your absolutely coherent explanation(cuz if that would have being said in the movies by the oracle, damn i would have never thought of the MwM theory)?

I never bought the MWAM 'theory' even when people screamed it at the top of their lungs post-Reloaded.

It always looked like an eletrical signal to me, not the workings of a virtual world.

The Oracle's explanation is that Neo is connected to the Source.

That's perfect. He is electromagnetically connected. This is proven from that 'EMP'-type attack he delivers at the end of Reloaded: ¬
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PiukNeo wrote:

Now, my turn. I know he does not make thing flaot in mid air. But how can he activate that function of "intercation with electromagnectic frecuencies?

Because he is a cybernetically-enhanced human being.

What, you thought those plugs were just for show?

Their brains and bodies are full of mechanical augmentations.
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PiukNeo wrote:

You again, and your comments with no on earth knowledge. Bro, in a good manner, if you take everything literal in life, you are not gonna make it through it. And also, to your mistake and knowledge: I said "they won, i saw it on animatrix, it is shown in amimatrix" whatever it was, cuz someone else posted that the machines did not won the war, thus I refeered to the war and battle on animatrix, to state the fact that machines did won the war back then, thus it is why they enslaved man to the matrix. No more than that, not a deeper meaning, or that by saying "won" y meant that now the machines have "absolute control" over human beings or whatever. Nope.

I didn't know what you were referring to. With all due respect, your posts aren't the easiest to understand sometimes.

PiukNeo wrote:

Again? no bro this can't be, i'm on a matrix and this it not real. I wish haha. Taking it literal again. I already clarified it, but in short again: this world is a world of relativities, nothing is 100% sure(only death), thus my COMPLETE stating in one of my posts was not literal, thus it did not mean that it was 100% control over them, but nearly it. just think. U do it preaty well. If you were a chick, and were really hot, and I was in love with you, and I told ya :" you are perfect for me, and you are the most beautiful girl I have ever seen" Would all that be 100% perfect, or certain? nope, how can anyone be the most perfect human being(physically and phycologically), no way. Just think dude, your not strupid, neither am I.

Again, there was some ambiguity when I read your posts. I misunderstood what you were referring to.

PiukNeo wrote:

As I stated, if that or you above, only that ,instead of the bullshit of the Oracle's explanation, would have been inb Revolutions, I would not be here. And many mwM believers.

"The bullshit of the Oracle's explanation"?

That's the only verbal explanation of the events surrounfing Neo's abilities. To simply dismiss it as "bullshit" for no other reason than the fact that you don't like it is ridiculous.

PiukNeo wrote:

I don't know if you entered the right forum bro,but i believe this forum is for many many discussions, and many many THEORIES, thus a theory means that it has not being tested into experiment that verify its veracity and transform the "theory" into "a fact, a law". Sorry, but that's the reality here.

But a hypothesis and subsequent theory can only be postulated as long as there is no information that proves the contrary.

The Matrix-within-a-Matrix 'theory' - given the fact that, it is not only not mentioned, but that an entirely different and logical explanation is exposited in the films - means that this theory is void, and no more than the subject of an obscure fan faction and not the story of the trilogy.

Also, people have taken the 'theory' aspect of watching the Matrix movies to a ridiculous degree. The 'theories' pertain to the subtextual messages of the movies. The actual plot remains the same.

PiukNeo wrote:

The last thing I sgould quote form u these time, I gotta go, I'm really busy with University now. As I already stated, where is that? Yopur explanation is far different form the Arch's and Oracle's. Acept it. It should have been what u say, not what it was said.

"Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication; a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One."
~ The Architect~

Neo was designed by the machines to fulfill certain "contingent affirmation[s]".

But the Architect has no reason to reveal the greater extent of Neo's "design" as this would only hurt his chances of getting Neo to go through the door on the right.

But this "greater extent" is soon addressed in Revolutions.

"The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here, all the way back to where it came from. The Source. That's what you felt when you touched those sentinels, but you weren't ready for it. You should be dead, but apparenetly you weren't ready for that, either."
~ The Oracle ~

Neo is connected to the Source and everything that derives from it...one of those things being the Matrix. Connecting to the Source should have resulted in death. But Neo defied this logic. The implication is that his attachment to Trinity is so profound that Neo keeps defying one aspect of the machine's control system (first in the Architect's chamber, and now this) after the other.

PiukNeo wrote:

Either the Wachowsky's commited a big error on science fisction by not leaving it clear(as you do here), or they actually intended to make a MwM theory on the trilogy. Simple.

But what you see as being "not...clear" is simply what I see as being the Wachowskis not spoon-feeding the answers to us in one big, fat scene of chunky exposition, and instead opting to disperse the answers throughout the trilogy, leaving the logical mind to realise how everything falls into place.

In my view, if the Wachowskis have "committed a big error"...it was only overestimating the intelligence of the general viewing audience.

intell wrote:

But I will say that the technical aspects such as the EM field and the Machine/Program inhabitants of that spectrum should explain alot of the how's. Why didn't the Bros. insert such an explanation into the movie for you, maybe because they wanted to draw more attention to the subtext.

The explanation seems quite evident in the trilogy. It's just that it's split up, gradually revealing the true nature of the Matrix with both visual cues (e.g. Neo's stopping the squiddies in Reloaded) and verbal ones (e.g. the Oracle's explanation in Revolutions or the Architect's explanation in Reloaded).

This more gradual process of discovering the truth is what allows the sci-fi plot elements of the Matrix plot overlap with the journey of 'enlightenment' or 'satori'.

That's the reason we don't just have one massive scene of explaining everything in the trilogy in one go. It's much more interesting to learn through experience like Neo does...and have it assisted by characters like the Oracle and the Architect at certain intervals.

max314 wrote:

intell wrote: But I will say that the technical aspects such as the EM field and the Machine/Program inhabitants of that spectrum should explain alot of the how's. Why didn't the Bros. insert such an explanation into the movie for you, maybe because they wanted to draw more attention to the subtext. The explanation seems quite evident in the trilogy. It's just that it's split up, gradually revealing the true nature of the Matrix with both visual cues (e.g. Neo's stopping the squiddies in Reloaded) and verbal ones (e.g. the Oracle's explanation in Revolutions or the Architect's explanation in Reloaded). This more gradual process of discovering the truth is what allows the sci-fi plot elements of the Matrix plot overlap with the journey of 'enlightenment' or 'satori'. That's the reason we don't just have one massive scene of explaining everything in the trilogy in one go. It's much more interesting to learn through experience like Neo does...and have it assisted by characters like the Oracle and the Architect at certain intervals.

You're right, Max. All the cues are there for people to know the how's but once again, people really have to understand the dialogue.

max314 wrote:

intell wrote: But I will say that the technical aspects such as the EM field and the Machine/Program inhabitants of that spectrum should explain alot of the how's. Why didn't the Bros. insert such an explanation into the movie for you, maybe because they wanted to draw more attention to the subtext. The explanation seems quite evident in the trilogy. It's just that it's split up, gradually revealing the true nature of the Matrix with both visual cues (e.g. Neo's stopping the squiddies in Reloaded) and verbal ones (e.g. the Oracle's explanation in Revolutions or the Architect's explanation in Reloaded). This more gradual process of discovering the truth is what allows the sci-fi plot elements of the Matrix plot overlap with the journey of 'enlightenment' or 'satori'. That's the reason we don't just have one massive scene of explaining everything in the trilogy in one go. It's much more interesting to learn through experience like Neo does...and have it assisted by characters like the Oracle and the Architect at certain intervals.

Thanx u've really explained yourself this time now. But have some more questions. Don't have time now. I'm really busy. I'll try to get back later this weekend or week at last.
Cya around.

Quote:

In my view, if the Wachowskis have "committed a big error"...it was only overestimating the intelligence of the general viewing audience.

I have talked to people who got lost at the entire idea of the human race in the simulated reality. I think the Wachowskis assumed most people would not figure most of it out and chose to go ahead anyway. The amazing thing is that they were able to make a successful trilogy with such a brilliant execution of the more shallow aspects, special effects and kung fu action scenes. In the sci-fi world normal people are called mundanes. They used the term in Babylon 5.

I never heard of the Matrix Within a Matrix until I came to this site. I tried figure out what in the movies would make anyone think that but haven't come up with anything.

psikey

ps - for those too out of touch with SF to recognize the title.

PiukNeo wrote:

Thanx u've really explained yourself this time now. But have some more questions. Don't have time now. I'm really busy. I'll try to get back later this weekend or week at last. Cya around.

I look forward to it. Take care.

psikeyhackr wrote:

I have talked to people who got lost at the entire idea of the human race in the simulated reality. I think the Wachowskis assumed most people would not figure most of it out and chose to go ahead anyway. The amazing thing is that they were able to make a successful trilogy with such a brilliant execution of the more shallow aspects, special effects and kung fu action scenes. In the sci-fi world normal people are called mundanes. They used the term in Babylon 5. I never heard of the Matrix Within a Matrix until I came to this site. I tried figure out what in the movies would make anyone think that but haven't come up with anything. psikey ps - for those too out of touch with SF to recognize the title. Whitelaugh ericweisstein.com...

Yes, there are people (like the critics on the commentary...who are probably a fair representative of a fair few critics) who don't even understand the first movie properly. I mean, they probably understand it enough to immediately engage with the story on the most superficial level, but if you asked them what was going on, they'd probably have a hard time explaining it.

"Uh...can someone tell my why the machines need human beings to survive?"



And then to see these same critics somehow manage to criticise Reloaded and Revolutions despite the fact that they don't have a clue what they're watching...it just defies logic.

You know about what they (whoever they are) say about people who don't learn from their mistakes.

"Doomed to repeat them."

Of course if, to them it wasn't ever a mistake, (infallibility) why not keep doing what you think was okay?

And seven posts up, is an example of what I meant by the fact that he claims to never have had the wrong idea (or at least a different idea) about the Arc's words, changed SOME of his previous posts to reflect that and left others like this one lying around which makes him look kinda dishonest or just silly.