»'MWAM Threory' Is Rubbish«

CaptPostMod wrote:

max314 wrote: Any other movies should be made on parallel struggles/stories (e.g. the lot in Matriculated). You mean like my Matrix 4 script? Shameless plug! matrix-explained.com...

Awesome...I'll try reading it after I've made this evenings net rounds.

Aw, what the heck...here's my shameless plug to rottentomatoes.com...

max314 wrote:

Aw, what the heck...here's my shameless plug to rottentomatoes.com...

Very kewl site, max

Thanks for checking out my M4, hope you enjoy it

ps. I have to ask, is the 314 a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference?

CaptPostMod wrote:

Very kewl site, max

Ta

CaptPostMod wrote:

Thanks for checking out my M4, hope you enjoy it

I'm sure I will!

CaptPostMod wrote:

ps. I have to ask, is the 314 a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference?

Hehe...it's anything but!

314 are, as I'm sure you're aware, the first three significant figures of pi. The Wachowskis reference this in Reloaded with having the window within which Neo must reach the Architect being open for precisely 314 seconds.

Pi is crucial within the Matrix trilogy because it is an incomputable number. It is an anomaly. It can only be ultilised to a finite number of decimal places, and it is crucial for cyclic calculations...such as those require for the Matrix.

It is also a reference to a Bible reference (haha...referencing a reference...the evil of simulacra has struck!) in Mission: Imposisble. The passage Job 3:14 ("...of kings and councillors of the Earth who built for themselves palaces now lying in ruins...") that reminds us of how this physical world is temporary.

It references a few other things, too, but I think that's enough for today

hmm....

{Morpheus} wrote:

hmm....

You seem to be meditating on something, Morph...might one enquire as to the precise nature of your meditation?

nothin really just....hmm....?

its just im thinking off subject though, what was the purpose the french men severed, just a trafficer of info...hardly it must be more to him.

max314 wrote:

CaptPostMod wrote: ps. I have to ask, is the 314 a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference? Hehe...it's anything but!

The PI reference I get, but the M:I reference seems about as out of left field as Buffy. In Buffy 314 is a project initiated by the government to build a being that is 1/3 machine, 1/3 human, and 1/3 supernatural creature.

i remember that episode...i hated it!

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Then again, this weren't my own words. I just said that the oracle's explanation for me, and for many people was incomplete of answers. For many. Also, I can assure you that the explanations given in the trilogy hold up perfectly without having to resort to a theory that has no precedence whatsoever within the story.

Ok, I said it, MANY PEOPLE THINK WHAT MY LIPS ARE SAYING(i'm tipping, i know). The Oracle's explanation is viewed by MANY as in that it lacks of answers that M2 rised up. That's objective. I'll come back at this issue, cuz I think a new poll should be put.

max314 wrote:

Also, regardless of your view of what "many think", my concern is to what the facts of the trilogy are as presented within the trilogy.

I know, you're right, facts come better than opinions. But hell, people make mistakes, even the Bros for the matrix. What they thought they put in M3 is what a human makes: choices. So it might have been the same way with M2 and the Arch explanation of the prophesy an all.
Imagine the real script would have been as it is now. Imagine is lacked of some things he said. Let's put some examples:
Imagine instead of saying :(in say, thus part-->)"You are faster than expected (about Neo's coments and reactions)" ; instead of saying "than your predecesors(spell?), cuz with out that, we would not know the truth behind it all (that there is a cycle, that the matrix is reloaded, and that there has been 5 Ones before Neo), and it could have easily been that way, giving the consice, exact info it should have, not giving it all as the Arch did really (which I totally loved, he said everthing we needed to hear; HELL! HE SHOULD BE THE ONE THAT'S BEEN TOLD AS "HE TOLD YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEEDED TO HEAR"!). The arch speech can be modified in an endless way, cutting away as you wish things that are just not necesary to the main topic of neo having to choose (like him talking of his attempt to make a stable matrix, even a perfect one, all the history behind the many matrix's he has constructed). And we could go on and on.
The Bros could have not put extra info about the truth also. All is posible.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Yes, that is correct, she can exprese herself in a opposite way the arch does, cuz`she's his opposite, nevertheless she has no exuse to hold on behind more answers we expected. Um...okay, here is the thing. Just because the "answers" you "expected" didn't turn up...that doesn't mean you just disregard the ones that did come up just because you don't feel like it.

Again, every one(many many many) expected those answers in M3, and they were mostly disapointed by the lack of answers it offered.

max314 wrote:

If it was a program, why would Neo faint? Why doesn't he just stop the squiddies and...I dunno...start flying? Why is it that all of his new abilities are only ones that have to do with transmitting and receiving signals (stopping squiddies, self-destructing bombs, seeing the machine world's energy signature, broadcasting his signal into the Matrix independent of a ship, etc). Coincidence? Combined with the Oracle's explanations...I most certainly think not.

No, not coincidence, but just the opposite. The machines might have planed all (I already explained this, it is getting boring to retype thing).
He fainted and not flew, and just saw the machines and all that you are saying because he IS STARTING TO GET TO KNOW HIS REAL POWERS OUTSIDE OF THAT MATRIX, he is starting to get the point the kid tried to make to him ("Here[gives him the spoon], they make me swore I get it to who before you went. They said you'd understand"), and that is "there is no spoon", not here also. he did not flew cuz, did Neo flew the first day of his life outside of the matrix?No. Also, is neo free form the real world matrix(if so) too? No. So q is limited to the real knoledge of it being a real illusion, he does not know for sure, he just has gathered info.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Now, this is different. First, supposing the MwM were right (so the real world is another matrix simulation), then Neo, even though being the One, he is the One (or has physical powers) only inside a computer program (because the CP has its own laws within, but written, thus can be broken, bent, etc by him), while in the real life, he has no power over the laws of physics (cuz they are written by God, if he exists, but not from a computer), thus he can not fly there, can not dodge bullets, can not break the rules. He is still the One, but has no powers in it. So, as I was just saying, If the whole theory were to be true, then Neo's powers in the "real world" would be a manifestation of him becoming aware of another reality, but (and most importantly this but), HE'S NOT BEING LIBERATED YET from that simulation (still in the IF), thus the fainting (as the Oracle said clearly: "You weren't ready for it"), cuz, he was using powers from inside his pod in the Real World, therefore overpowred it, who knows why. If he were inside another simulation, he could even be controled by the machines from outside, cuz' if they wanted, they could make him die when ever the pleased(just as god), so, they could easily make him faint after his demostration of powers, cuz' maybe they did not want him to keep on doing that (yes, afterwards in M3, he's doing that and is not fainting, but that must have a reason too). The point here is, that not because he's fainted, it means that he is not in another simulation, he could have easily been done that by the machines themselfs in the Real World in a way of control measure. A fun idea, but not conclusive at all. I'll tell you why. You use one quote from the Oracle: "...you weren't ready for it".

Ok, if you are going to state textually from the movies, do it completely, do it right, cuz that makes me look like a retarded or lier. Here's the complete text:

Oracle: The Source. That's what you felt when you touched those Sentinels. But you weren't ready for it. You should be dead, but apparently you weren't ready for that, either.

So, I indeed was right, cuz, she did also meant (cuz she said twice the meaning "you weren't ready for that") that Neo wasn't ready for his DEATH, therefore, he wasn't ready for it. Then, who decides when one is ready to die? I think that only god, but in here I think the machines have something to do.

max314 wrote:

To repeat my excerpt from earlier: ---- Oracle: The Source. That's what you felt when you touched those Sentinels. But you weren't ready for it. ---- I mean, Jesus Christ, how much more obvious can I make it? I'm not making this shit up. It's not 'a theory' when it's this bloody obvious.

I already corrected you.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Neo's not a God, he's just a person. So i rather think it has a better meaning in the MwM theory than in your "Neo-being-a-God" one. I meant it as a metaphor...

Ok did not get that. Sorry.

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: He's not a machine, maybe a cyborg, not a machine, he's human for whatever it might bring counter-arguments. By 'machine God' I mean that he can kick any machine's ass at a whim. He can hook into their network with a mere thought. He can pop into the Matrix for a quick vacation whenever he wants.

Ok, here you are indeed going beyond the facts: how the hell do you knoiw he can enter the matrix AGAIN at his will? Not just because he got in one time (that was by mistake, must I say, or not mistake maybe, but not by will), it gives you the right to think that. "Ugh!"

max314 wrote:

[quote"PiukNeo"]On the other side, even if it were right, then how do you RATIONALLY(try to read it right here, cuz it's important) explain the fact that a "human being" can stop by thinking it 4 flying machines, just beacuase he has a connection to a source(a super ultra computer system, where all the energy of another computer system[matrix] gets to) and can by some way[(explain here)] control BY HIS THOUGHTS AND WILL and eletromagnetic pulse. Wow, that must be great to do. All that, in a real world. That's because Neo is not a pure "human being", Piuk. He is cyborg. This is a fact. Read through what I've said above. Plus, the premise of the movie is science fiction, and the premise of a mechanically augmented human being having a connection to a computer network is as old as the '80s my friend. If you read/watched just a little more cyberpunk, you would know this and we probably wouldn't be having this 'debate'.

Ok, I asked for a raztional, logical explanation for it, you tried to give it, but you just gave me a logical explanation of HOW IT WORKS, not how the hell a human being with just pluggs in his body can! Never inb the movies did a human connect to the matrix by just thinking it(wirelessly), never did they stop sentinels by that too. How, just how is that posible,HOW CAN NEO BY THINKING IT STOP AN ARMY OF MACHINES JUST BECAUSE HE IS CONNECTED TO A SOURCE? How? How?

max314 wrote:

PiukNeo wrote: Well, you should re-read your statments, cuz I did not self contradict in any way(just re-read it, anyone makes mistakes). Um...you said: ---- [i]On the other hand, the MwM theory,while not mentioned in any part of the trilogy (which is exaclty the point of it, being a surprise and a deception), it has many implies and references to it throught the trilogy, making it really posible, and also a answer to all of the questions that were left unaswered by the movie/Oracle. ---- You say that this 'MWAM' theory is "not mentioned in any part of the trilogy", and yet there are somehow "references to it throughout the trilogy". You really can't have it both ways, Piuk...

Ok, to me (I say it, to me, cuz i rather think it is obvious to everybody), IMPLIED and SAID(or writen, spoken, etc), is quite very DIFERENT. One is literal, textual, the other are signs, things, that are not there, but by decoding it, you just may find it. So, again, I did not exprese my self incoherently.

max314 wrote:

Dude, like I said, my Spanish is nowhere near as good as your English, so I am much humbled by your skills!

Thanx I try my best

i think that neo has become something greater than a human essence in the machine mainframe. he has become some sort of divine entity, one that is digitized but still of human nature, thats what i believe.

{Morpheus} wrote:

its just im thinking off subject though, what was the purpose the french men severed, just a trafficer of info...hardly it must be more to him.

Well, I think that the Merovingian was designed to be one massive information processor.

But like so many of the programs in the Matrix saga, the Merovingian seems to have managed to transcend his basic programming.

While the Merovingian was lambasted with information, there must have come a point whereby he realised: "hold on a sec...I've been able to predict future events depending on past and present ones! I'm like the Oracle!"

Only he knows he's not quite like the Oracle, which is why he wants her in his dungeons.

The Merovingian, of course, represents power (and therefore, freedom?) through gnosis (or knowledge), but it is obvious that the Brothers still believe that this isn't the ultimate form of enlightenment and that it has its limitations.

CaptPostMod wrote:

max314 wrote: CaptPostMod wrote: ps. I have to ask, is the 314 a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference? Hehe...it's anything but! The PI reference I get, but the M:I reference seems about as out of left field as Buffy. In Buffy 314 is a project initiated by the government to build a being that is 1/3 machine, 1/3 human, and 1/3 supernatural creature.

Wow...a vampborg...

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, I said it, MANY PEOPLE THINK WHAT MY LIPS ARE SAYING(i'm tipping, i know). The Oracle's explanation is viewed by MANY as in that it lacks of answers that M2 rised up. That's objective. I'll come back at this issue, cuz I think a new poll should be put.

Even if the poll was at 100% for the Oracle not giving us a satisfactory explanation, it is still nothing more than subjective opinions.

There's nothing "objective" about opinion polls.

That's why they're called 'opinion polls'.

As far as I can see, the Oracle's explanation of what the Source is in the first movie (she confirms Neo's conclusion that it is "the machine mainframe"), combined with the Oracle's explanation that Neo is connected to the Source/machine mainframe...which is in turn combined with all of Neo's new abilities (stopping squiddies, detonating bombs, broadcasting himself into the Matrix, seeing/feeling the energy of the machine world) that all require electromagnetic frequencies...I mean, as far as I can see, it is all there.

Neo is connected to the Source.

The only possible physical way this can be is on an electromagnetic wavelength.

This is visually shown when Neo stops the sentinels at the end of Reloaded in what can only be described as a focussed electromagnetic pulse.

It's all there, Piuk.

It's all there.

Your 'theory' of a Matrix inside another Matrix, on the other hand...not once does the Oracle (or any other character, for that matter) ever mention anything about another Matrix. But the Source - time and time again - continues to come up. Maybe because... ...that's the explanation?

In other words, there is more proof (a lot more proof) to back up what I am saying than what you are saying.

I don't care how many polls you hold, you can't deny the facts. The facts that are explicitly stated within the movies that do explain the events as I have shown.

A view can be unfounded, which is what I believe your view to be.

It's unfounded conjecture.

You yourself have admitted that there is not one single reference to your 'theory' in the trilogy, whereas my one is re-itterated throughout the course of the films.

PiukNeo wrote:

I know, you're right, facts come better than opinions. But hell, people make mistakes, even the Bros for the matrix. What they thought they put in M3 is what a human makes: choices. So it might have been the same way with M2 and the Arch explanation of the prophesy an all. Imagine the real script would have been as it is now. Imagine is lacked of some things he said. Let's put some examples: Imagine instead of saying :(in say, thus part-->)"You are faster than expected (about Neo's coments and reactions)" ; instead of saying "than your predecesors(spell?), cuz with out that, we would not know the truth behind it all (that there is a cycle, that the matrix is reloaded, and that there has been 5 Ones before Neo), and it could have easily been that way, giving the consice, exact info it should have, not giving it all as the Arch did really (which I totally loved, he said everthing we needed to hear; HELL! HE SHOULD BE THE ONE THAT'S BEEN TOLD AS "HE TOLD YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEEDED TO HEAR"!). The arch speech can be modified in an endless way, cutting away as you wish things that are just not necesary to the main topic of neo having to choose (like him talking of his attempt to make a stable matrix, even a perfect one, all the history behind the many matrix's he has constructed). And we could go on and on. The Bros could have not put extra info about the truth also. All is posible.

Dude, that's like saying that The Matrix Trilogy is all about root beer on the basis that we "choose" to make it so...

I think there is such a thing as taking the whole "it's your interpretation" thing a little...too far?

(P.S. - Do you seriously think that people as meticulous as the Brothers would allow key dialogue scenes to play out in any other way than precisely the way they wanted it? No, I didn't think so.)

PiukNeo wrote:

Again, every one(many many many) expected those answers in M3, and they were mostly disapointed by the lack of answers it offered.

And, again, I have no use for "many many many".

If I did, I'd be kicking the shit out of Reloaded and Revolutions right now because "many many many" believe that they sucked.

It is always possible for the "many" to be misinformed and to have the wrong idea.

I suppose that the Nazi's fascist policies were right because "many many many" Germans believed that they were right.

Opinion, conjecture, assertion...none of these things make for the foundation of a good debate.

You want to convince me of this 'MWAM' lark? Offer me hard proof. Shit, offer me any proof!

PiukNeo wrote:

No, not coincidence, but just the opposite. The machines might have planed all (I already explained this, it is getting boring to retype thing). He fainted and not flew, and just saw the machines and all that you are saying because he IS STARTING TO GET TO KNOW HIS REAL POWERS OUTSIDE OF THAT MATRIX, he is starting to get the point the kid tried to make to him ("Here[gives him the spoon], they make me swore I get it to who before you went. They said you'd understand"), and that is "there is no spoon", not here also. he did not flew cuz, did Neo flew the first day of his life outside of the matrix?No. Also, is neo free form the real world matrix(if so) too? No. So q is limited to the real knoledge of it being a real illusion, he does not know for sure, he just has gathered info.

Dude, you're not the only one getting tired of re-typing.

But whereas my expansion on the EM front has a basis in the explicit statements in the literature, your theory of a second Matrix is something you've literally made up and then gone about fitting the events of the trilogy into it.

"Maybe" this, and "perhaps" that...?

That's not a reason. That's just fantasy.

It's not an interpretation. It's unfounded extrapolation.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, if you are going to state textually from the movies, do it completely, do it right, cuz that makes me look like a retarded or lier. Here's the complete text: Oracle: The Source. That's what you felt when you touched those Sentinels. But you weren't ready for it. You should be dead, but apparently you weren't ready for that, either. So, I indeed was right, cuz, she did also meant (cuz she said twice the meaning "you weren't ready for that") that Neo wasn't ready for his DEATH, therefore, he wasn't ready for it. Then, who decides when one is ready to die? I think that only god, but in here I think the machines have something to do.

My friend, that was the only section you quoted.

And despite the fact that you've just quoted the whole thing, you've still decided to overlook everything pertaining to the Source!

And saying that you "don't find it satisfactory" is not a reason.

PiukNeo wrote:

I already corrected you.

Darling, we're quoting one at a time.

You can't 'correct' me in the same post if I've already said the same thing.

Plus, I'd like to re-itterate the fact that you looked at the stuff about death and about Neo not being "read", but you decided to skip the stuff about the Source.

Which makes no sense, and only furthers the invalidity of there being a second Matrix since you haven't been able to sufficiently disprove the explanation given by the movie as being implausible.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok did not get that. Sorry.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, here you are indeed going beyond the facts: how the hell do you knoiw he can enter the matrix AGAIN at his will? Not just because he got in one time (that was by mistake, must I say, or not mistake maybe, but not by will), it gives you the right to think that. "Ugh!"

Um...dude? He was just in the Matrix for the whole entire duration of the first act without ever being plugged into a ship.

This means that he is capable of doing it, and that - with time - he will probably be able to do it completely at will.

"You got yourself in here. You can get yourself out." | Neo

And, if Trinity hadn't entered the scene at that point, I have a feeling that he probably would have.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, I asked for a raztional, logical explanation for it, you tried to give it, but you just gave me a logical explanation of HOW IT WORKS, not how the hell a human being with just pluggs in his body can! Never inb the movies did a human connect to the matrix by just thinking it(wirelessly), never did they stop sentinels by that too. How, just how is that posible,HOW CAN NEO BY THINKING IT STOP AN ARMY OF MACHINES JUST BECAUSE HE IS CONNECTED TO A SOURCE? How? How?

Dear Lord...

The Mechanics:

Neo's entire central nervous system and brain has been mechanically augmented in order to receive the signals that come from head jacks. This is a necessity. If I stick a 4-inch metal jack into your brain, you would die. When the pod-borns have it done, it slots perfectly into place. A port isn't just a cool looking piece of metal on the surface of your body. It's the entrance into a mechanised transit into the body.

Hence, pod-borns are cyborg.

No-one has ever done this before Neo. That is because Neo is Neo. Neo is the One.

Now:

The machines have to create the One. They have to have a being that is able to manipulate the Matrix code in a way that no-one else can. They need to construct a method in order to allow him to do this.


The Method:

THE SOURCE (a.k.a. MACHINE MAINFRAME) ----> THE MATRIX + THE MACHINES (inc. sentinels, bombs, etc)

The machines figure that if Neo is connected to THE SOURCE, as is stated in the trilogy, then that means that Neo should have control over the machines, their operating system, and the Matrix...because they are all derived from the Source.

But the machines obviously aren't happy with Neo being able to have access to the whole of their world, so they deactivate this ability. They make it latent.

This way, Neo only has powers within the Matrix.

A seemingly fool-proof design for the One.

However, after Neo comes out of the Architect's chamber, he has uncovered his new abilities quite by accident. Why? Well, he was closer to the Source than he had ever been. It is quite possible that his full underlying potential was touched in that moment.

Neo then harnesses it after the destruction of the Neb...but this premature connection that was supposed to be surpressed resulted in his consciousness being pushed out of his body and projected into the Matrix. According to the Oracle, he "should be dead". But it seems that his love for Trinity has kept him holding on.

Of course, Neo then makes his way to the Oracle and asks how it is that he is able to do all of this, and she says precisely what the facts are: Neo is connected to the Source.

This explains all his abilities thus far (stopping squiddies, broadcasting into the Matrix without the need for a ship, even his existing abilities within the Matrix) and also prevents us from having to have his new abilities (seeing the machine world) explained to us later on in the trilogy when the Oracle isn't there.

Now, tell me, within the context of the trilogy...how the fuck does MWAM hold up compared to the actual explanation given in the movies?

It doesn't. It holds about as much water as a paper condom.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, to me (I say it, to me, cuz i rather think it is obvious to everybody), IMPLIED and SAID(or writen, spoken, etc), is quite very DIFERENT. One is literal, textual, the other are signs, things, that are not there, but by decoding it, you just may find it. So, again, I did not exprese my self incoherently.

But I don't see any basis for this implicature. Given the fact that the events in the trilogy seem to explain themselves, there is even less support for said implicature.

All the "signs" that are either "literal" or "textual" can be explained using the points given in the trilogy. Why-oh-why do you have to resort to an outside theory that is not mentioned even once and is superimposed by an actual explanation?

And don't say that "it wasn't satisfactory because many many many people say so", because - despite the fact that it's not even a reason - I've proven your "many many many" wrong in this post and the ones preceding it.

PiukNeo wrote:

Thanx I try my best

Excellent stuff.

man thx again for the clarification on the frenchmen. he is another cool person in the movie.

Max wrote:

I've proven your "many many many" wrong in this post and the ones preceding it.

So have I.

Ok, dude, hear me out. Let's chill out, keep it together, and focus. Ok? Are you like that? I am.
And then let's start again, fom the top, but well. We are obviously not getting ourselfs, we are not in the same line.

ha! not at all.

PiukNeo wrote:

Ok, dude, hear me out. Let's chill out, keep it together, and focus. Ok? Are you like that? I am. And then let's start again, fom the top, but well. We are obviously not getting ourselfs, we are not in the same line.

I'm focussed enough to take the time to draw you a diagram and split it up.

Allow me to re-itterate:

The Mechanics:

Neo's entire central nervous system and brain has been mechanically augmented in order to receive the signals that come from head jacks. This is a necessity. If I stick a 4-inch metal jack into your brain, you would die. When the pod-borns have it done, it slots perfectly into place. A port isn't just a cool looking piece of metal on the surface of your body. It's the entrance into a mechanised transit into the body.

Hence, pod-borns are cyborg.

Now:

The machines have to create the One. They have to have a being that is able to manipulate the Matrix code in a way that no-one else can. They need to construct a method in order to allow him to do this.


The Method:

THE SOURCE (a.k.a. MACHINE MAINFRAME) ----> THE MATRIX + THE MACHINES

The machines figure that if Neo is connected to THE SOURCE, as is explicitly stated in the trilogy, then that means that Neo should have control over the machines, their operating system, and the Matrix...because they are all derived from the Source.

But the machines obviously aren't happy with Neo being able to have access to the whole of their world, so they deactivate this ability. They make it latent.

This way, Neo only has powers within the Matrix.

A seemingly fool-proof design for the One.

However, after Neo comes out of the Architect's chamber, he has uncovered his new abilities quite by accident. Why? Well, he was closer to the Source than he had ever been. It is quite possible that his full underlying potential was touched in that moment.

Neo then harnesses it after the destruction of the Neb...but this premature connection that was supposed to be surpressed resulted in his consciousness being pushed out of his body and projected into the Matrix. According to the Oracle, he "should be dead". But it seems that his love for Trinity has kept him holding on.

Of course, Neo then makes his way to the Oracle and asks how it is that he is able to do all of this, and she says precisely what the facts are: Neo is connected to the Source.

This explains all his abilities thus far (stopping squiddies, broadcasting into the Matrix without the need for a ship, even his existing abilities within the Matrix) and also prevents us from having to have his new abilities (seeing the machine world) explained to us later on in the trilogy when the Oracle isn't there.


Now you can take that from the top, from the bottom, from inside or from behind...I don't really care. Just tell me how a theory that is not mentioned even once in the trilogy can hold any precedence when the explanation in the movies satisfactorily explains everything...without the "many many many" argument, of course...

intell wrote:

Max wrote: I've proven your "many many many" wrong in this post and the ones preceding it. So have I. matrix-explained.com... Still they persist, eh? I'll keep reading. I'm enjoying as a spectator.

Dude...the link won't work...

why not?

{Morpheus} wrote:

why not?

It keeps giving me this message about how I can't edit posts, or something...

intell wrote:

matrix-explained.com...

Ah, that's better

Yeah, along with text-based points as to why MWAM is entirely invalid along with the subtextual implications (i.e. they are detroyed) are all spot-on.

i have no idea what that is.