»Why didn't the albino twin kill Trinity?«

If bullets do nothing to them then why not just kill trinity when he had the chance, instead of telling morpheus to open the door... just seams like a way to keep a character alive.

Any explinations?

Well, what do you think? Of course it is. How else could such a flaccid film ever be produced?

You know whats worse than someone who doesn't like the Matrix (i know its rare)... its someone who doesn't like it and SEEKS out a place to say it

Because over than making it boring, they seems to be quite nonchalant villians

Lazarus wrote:

You know whats worse than someone who doesn't like the Matrix (i know its rare)... its someone who doesn't like it and SEEKS out a place to say it

Well, it's certainly less boring than doing nothing, and something does need to be done.

One might ask why would beings with their abilities work for the Merovingian anyway? Couldn't they find something to do on their own?

The matrix isnt just an action/science-fiction movie... its a philosophy...

most of us here dont think of it in terms of /just/ martial arts and special effects... we want to understand it.

you can say its a waste of time... but hey... it's certainly less boring than doing nothing.

Every film has to be contrived, to a certain degree, but the Matrix is, shall we say, an example to us all.

example of what

...an extremely contrived film. I mean, in a negative way. A well contrived work would be something like Magnolia. It relies more on co-incidence, but without these co-incidences it would be meaningless.

Berklian Idealist wrote:

Every film has to be contrived, to a certain degree, but the Matrix is, shall we say, an example to us all.

If your objective is to criticise THE MATRIX why not pick something big like the whole idea of using human bodies as a power source? Any competent high school kid should be able to figure out that would cost more energy than you would get out but that is fundamental to the basis of the movie.

THE MATRIX is not a HARD science fiction movie. THE ABYSS is far better in that respect but THE MATRIX is deeper than THE ABYSS. You can see socio-economic manipulation in both movies but THE MATRIX does a vastly better job of expressing the depth of psychological manipulation involved. I have read sci-fi since 1961 and plenty of books with people in some kind of cyperspace, but I know of NOTHING else with the entire human race in the system and not knowing it. The Matrix is unique.

I could enjoy it just as much with a lot less kung fu and special effects but I doubt it would have been as successful a movie that way and consequently M2 and M3 would not have been made. So its implementation to be a success as a movie and a social-psychological and philosophical statement is quite impressive.

psikey

I question the merit of the entire film. You can't go much further than that. You can use it as an allegory for many, many things. It would be much simpler to cut this step, and use the Bible: people describe the striking similarities between aspects of the Matrix and the Bible; maybe this is because it's derived. The fabric of the story is taken from the Bible and uses many well established cliches - some of the oldest coming from the scriptures. Overall the whole thing is a rather clumsy allegory, without much significance. But hey, you have fun! It's not all that bad.

Berklian Idealist wrote:

I question the merit of the entire film. You can't go much further than that. You can use it as an allegory for many, many things. It would be much simpler to cut this step, and use the Bible: people describe the striking similarities between aspects of the Matrix and the Bible; maybe this is because it's derived. The fabric of the story is taken from the Bible and uses many well established cliches - some of the oldest coming from the scriptures. Overall the whole thing is a rather clumsy allegory, without much significance. But hey, you have fun! It's not all that bad.

It depends on how you choose to interpret the film.

It is as much shallow as it is not....It is like saying that a line of Scripture or a Buddist phrase is shallow. On the surface, it is just a line of words, right? But the meaning is to be found, to be discovered, and interpreted. It is not a "sign", but rather a "symbol". Multivalent, and up to the choice of the person who is reading, listening, or watching.

That is the beauty of The Matrix. It is a present-day mythology that uses elements that many of us are familiar with to echo the timeless questions that have plagued man for all of human history. Mythologies have been told 100 years ago, 500 years ago....and now we have one of our own to look at, think about, and talk about.

He probably would have killed her.

But he used her as insurrance to make sure that Morpheus would...

a) let go of the door
b) drop his weapon

Come on guys!

I think its simple, the Merovingian was afraid of killing Trinity and he ordered to the twins not to kill her, because he knew that Neo loved her.

After seeing what Neo did to The Merovingian´s thugs, he realized that Neo was very powerfull.

the matrix was derived from many sources, much as any other book or movie is. Unless you believe in people getting possessed and having entirely new ideas come into their heads that they never got from somewhere else. Or maybe they have lived in one room with no contact for their entire life thus nothing was derived from history, only from their own imagination. You make a moot point, unless your point is that the matrix is so closely the same as the bible that the matrix serves no purpose but to flesh out that which already exists... which to me is ludicrious, but you can argue whatever you want to argue.

My gut tells me that you (Berklian Idealist) may be the same poster we already know and love whom went by many names, of which only footloosifer is coming to my mind right now. I always did find you amusing, going from increcible relevance and insight to totally off the wall and distastefull in a single sentence. And you never did have a love of the matrix, but you did enjoy the boards nonetheless... not unlike your current reincarnation.

Oh... My grammer and spelling are usually subpar on the boards, my sentences are usually too long and commas are often abused, but... this is an internet message board... and as such it is a good way to exchange ideas and thoughts with other people. And often I have more intrest in expressing and/or sharing those intrests and thoughts then I do in making sure I'm producing professional, errorless posts. Bottem line... as long as the reader comprehends my posts, and doesn't find them overly painfull in whatever manner, then I've accomplished what I set out to accomplish.


As for the twins... why do they tell Morpheous to open the door and then drop his weapon and not kill Trinity? They can only threaten Trinity while corpreal, and bullets if shot through their head, (while corpreal) might have a negative effect even on these twins. This is given evidence by the fact that the twins ghost to avoid bullets and blades, seeming to suggest that if they stayed corpreal, these things might have hurt them a little. Thus, if morpheous complies to the second command, trinity does die, but instead he shoots at the twins head, the twin ghosts, and trinity escapes. Rock, paper, siccisors... or somthing like that lol.

Anyways, the far more interesting question was the one psychic hacker proposed... why would they work for the merovingian to begin with.

mrbrown950 wrote:

I think its simple, the Merovingian was afraid of killing Trinity and he ordered to the twins not to kill her, because he knew that Neo loved her. After seeing what Neo did to The Merovingian´s thugs, he realized that Neo was very powerfull.

When the twins went after the Keymaker Neo had not yet wiped out the thugs and how could he communicate with them afterwards?

Here are 12 books relating to The Matrix, Oh Shallow ONE. What film can you find, produced within the last ten years, that is the subject of so many books?

#1. The Matrix and Philosophy : Welcome to the Desert of the Real (Popular Culture and Philosophy Vol. 3)
ISBN: 081269502X Author: William Irwin (Editor)

#2. Like a Splinter in Your Mind : The Philosophy behind the Matrix Trilogy
ISBN: 1405125241 Author: Matt Lawrence

#3. Taking the Red Pill : Science, Philosophy and Religion in The Matrix
ISBN: 1932100024 Author: Glenn Yeffeth (Editor) David Gerrold (Introduction)

#4. More Matrix and Philosophy : Revolutions and Reloaded Decoded (Popular Culture and Philosophy Series)
ISBN: 0812695720 Author: William Irwin (Editor)

#5. Free Your Mind : Philosophy and the Matrix
ISBN: 0195181069 Author: Christopher Grau (Editor)

#6. Rebuilding the Matrix: Science and Faith in the 21st Century
ISBN: 0310250188 Author: Denis Alexander

#7. Chasing Technoscience: Matrix for Materiality (Indiana Series in the Philosophy of Religion)
ISBN: 0253216060 Author: Ihde, Don (edt)

#8. Philosophers Explore The Matrix: Philosophy And The Matrix - Paperback
ISBN: 0195181077 Author: CHRISTOPHER GRAU

The silver twins were after the keymaker, if the door had closed then they would have lost him, so by taking trinity hostage, they insured that a cool and destructive chase throught the streets and freeways of megacity would happen.

psikeyhackr wrote:

Here are 12 books relating to The Matrix, Oh Shallow ONE. What film can you find, produced within the last ten years, that is the subject of so many books? #1. The Matrix and Philosophy : Welcome to the Desert of the Real (Popular Culture and Philosophy Vol. 3) ISBN: 081269502X Author: William Irwin (Editor) #2. Like a Splinter in Your Mind : The Philosophy behind the Matrix Trilogy ISBN: 1405125241 Author: Matt Lawrence #3. Taking the Red Pill : Science, Philosophy and Religion in The Matrix ISBN: 1932100024 Author: Glenn Yeffeth (Editor) David Gerrold (Introduction) #4. More Matrix and Philosophy : Revolutions and Reloaded Decoded (Popular Culture and Philosophy Series) ISBN: 0812695720 Author: William Irwin (Editor) #5. Free Your Mind : Philosophy and the Matrix ISBN: 0195181069 Author: Christopher Grau (Editor) #6. Rebuilding the Matrix: Science and Faith in the 21st Century ISBN: 0310250188 Author: Denis Alexander #7. Chasing Technoscience: Matrix for Materiality (Indiana Series in the Philosophy of Religion) ISBN: 0253216060 Author: Ihde, Don (edt) #8. Philosophers Explore The Matrix: Philosophy And The Matrix - Paperback ISBN: 0195181077 Author: CHRISTOPHER GRAU campusi.com... #9. "Exegesis of the Matrix" by Peter B Lloyd #10. "Exploring the Matrix: Visions of the Cyber Present" Edited by Karen Haber #11. "The Reality Within The Matrix" By Kristenea M. LaVelle #12. "Idealism The Philosophy of The Matrix" by Harun Yahya ursasoft.com... Of course you can take the cynical approach and say they are just trying to capitalize on THE MATRIX for the money. But Occam's razor points yo a much simpler explanation. You don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. psikeyhackr

If you want to cite Occam's Razor, then the answer is in ghost22's post. It is a symbol, enough, and is relevant to our lives by being a very carefully designed to parallel everything it has used - all the people who are finding 'amazing' parallels between our life, and the Bible, because it is based on these - it is not transcendent; its similarities are not so important.

And again, thinking of Occam's Razor - all those titles come down to the same thing: Real life ideas within the matrix.

So name your great movie and list the books Your Shallowness. Or are you admitting Occam's razor cut your throat and we are supposed to listen to hot air bubble out the wrong hole?

psikeyhackr wrote:

So name your great movie and list the books Your Shallowness. Or are you admitting Occam's razor cut your throat and we are supposed to listen to hot air bubble out the wrong hole?

Hang on a minute, I'm terribly confused. What the hell are you talking about? Do you know what Occam's Razor is? And since when did I say I could cite another film? I'd say a great film would be something like Magnolia, or perhaps the Godfather, or maybe Jacob's ladder. Dark City has more significance than this. The number of books is irrelevant - they are all the same...

Quote:

Do you know what Occam's Razor is?

Occam's razor basically boils down to that the simpler explanation that accounts for the facts is the most probable explanation.

The fact is that you waltz into a Matrix website criticising the movie on a superficial basis with things like

"flaccid film",

"Every film has to be contrived, to a certain degree, but the Matrix is, shall we say, an example to us all."

"A well contrived work would be something like Magnolia."

"I question the merit of the entire film. You can't go much further than that... Overall the whole thing is a rather clumsy allegory"

"If we examine the Matrix properly, we see it is a complete waste of time,"

I am not applying Occam's razor to whether or not The Matrix is a good movie. I am applying Occam's razor to whether or not you have sh!t for brains. If The Matrix is such a crap movie why are there so many books on it? If it's a philosophically significant movie as these books would atest then that leads to the conclusion that you are a pseudointellectual moron with delusions of mental adequacy as your handle indicates.

psikeyhackr

Berklian Idealist wrote:

people describe the striking similarities between aspects of the Matrix and the Bible; maybe this is because it's derived. The fabric of the story is taken from the Bible and uses many well established cliches

Hm,... I am not well-versed in the bible, therefore...
Could you explain to me how the essential aspect of the Matrix - the false reality - is derived from the bible?

psikeyhackr wrote:

Quote: Do you know what Occam's Razor is? Occam's razor basically boils down to that the simpler explanation that accounts for the facts is the most probable explanation. The fact is that you waltz into a Matrix website criticising the movie on a superficial basis with things like "flaccid film", "Every film has to be contrived, to a certain degree, but the Matrix is, shall we say, an example to us all." "A well contrived work would be something like Magnolia." "I question the merit of the entire film. You can't go much further than that... Overall the whole thing is a rather clumsy allegory" "If we examine the Matrix properly, we see it is a complete waste of time," I am not applying Occam's razor to whether or not The Matrix is a good movie. I am applying Occam's razor to whether or not you have sh!t for brains. If The Matrix is such a crap movie why are there so many books on it? If it's a philosophically significant movie as these books would atest then that leads to the conclusion that you are a pseudointellectual moron with delusions of mental adequacy as your handle indicates. psikeyhackr

That's not a very nice thing to say now, is it. What makes me sad is that you think you sound intelligent yourself. There is nothing pseudo-intellectual about me. I don't claim to be an intellectual, I merely claim to know what I'm talking about. While this is only a claim, I know that you are incredibly stupid, and very bad at arguing your points. Relevancy is obviously a foreign concept, as is the application of Occam's Razor.

My point is that almost every theory relating the Matrix to religion and philosphy have it the wrong way round. The religions and philosophies came first, the Matrix is based on them. There is nothing wondrous about this, it is merely an illustration of well established theories and beliefs. I'm sure that if you actually read these books they would merely confirm my point.