»Philosophy in Science Fiction«

I will be taking this course at my university this semester, they haven't offered it before (to my understanding). I spoke with the prof for just a minute and he seems very excited about the course, as do I.

The text for the course is "Like a Splinter in Your Mind: The Philosophy Behind the Matrix Trilogy", by Matt Lawrence...although the course will not only discuss the Matrix trilogy.

class starts tomorrow at 9:30 am....this should be fun...

just thought I would share...

You will be sharing with us what they're actually saying in there, right?

How many credit hours do we get for giving you ideas for your essays?

i can/will totally share topics brought up in clas.

in fact i was thinking about taking topics from class and starting new threads with them.

from the flyer that was posted around campus this course looks to be very interesting. here is a quote from my schools website:

Stephen F. Austin State University wrote:

A message to all philosophy minors, science fiction fans, fans of _The Matrix_, science majors, and many others. When was the last time that you had fun in a class? Don't miss this rare opportunity to take 'Philosophy in Science Fiction' (PHI-390). In this course we will examine fascinating questions such as: 1) Will computers ever think like people?; 2) How do I know what is real?; 3) Is it possible to travel through time?; and 4) What will humanity become in the future? No prereqs! Enrollment is limited and time is running out! This course will not be taught again for some time. So, don't miss out! Enroll today!

first day is tomorrow, but i assume nothing much will be discussed besides what to expect from the class, office hours of the instructor, blah blah blah...either way, im pretty pumped to be in a course like this, and with fellow fans...who knows, maybe there will be some hot chicks?

but, of course, i will be sharing class material...

nice to hear allone.

psikeyhackr wrote:

How many credit hours do we get for giving you ideas for your essays?

i dont know if i can offer any credit hours, but i can give credit where credit is due...if i were to write a paper and quote a fellow member of MeX, you will be given credit

i can see it now:

"um, allone, you cited a person by the name of psikeyhackr, can you explain that please?"

"well, thats his ZION name, DUH!"

Quote:

"um, allone, you cited a person by the name of psikeyhackr, can you explain that please?" "well, thats his ZION name, DUH!"

ps - There's a smilie limit? What kind of cheap website is this?

today we talked about "what is philosophy" and then we were introduced to the allegory of the cave...and got to watch a clip from the matrix.

needless to say i was rather bored.

i didnt speak up in class as to give a chance to the other students to respond...and i dont want to seem like some type of snob know it all or whatever...they didnt talk much.

anyway, nothing really new here at all, the cave allegory has been discussed here before and any fan knows the reference, so yeah...nothing really exciting to report yet.

there are four other books required for the class. i will post what they are, just in case anyone is interested, later on today.

I was debating how long to wait to ask you about other books in the class. I intended to wait 'til monday.

What clip did they show?

psik

the clip shown was when Neo first meets Morpheus in person and then takes the red pill, we watched until Neo was picked up after being released from his pod.

i feel that maybe we should have kept going, since in the allegory of the cave there is a comment about a persons eyes when they see the real world...and in the matrix Neo asks why his eyes hurt...to which Morpheus tells him, "you've never used them before", but that is just me

ok, here are the other four books for this class:

How to Get the Most Out of Philosophy by Douglas J. Soccio

Philosophy: An Introduction Through Original Fiction by Thomas D Davis

Philosophy and Science Fiction by Michael Philips (Editor)

Philosophers Explore The Matrix by Christopher Grau

i havent had a chance to get any of them yet, since there are only 3 bookstores here in this town, and none of them have any of these in stock...actually only one of the bookstores even has them listed for the class, the other two can order them for me, but it would be a special order, and the last one will get some more in on monday...so i will be getting them monday, i hope...

thankyou allone, i am a big fan of reading all thing philosophy, so these books should be a delectiable treat for my mind.

thankyou

*sigh* here we are some three weeks into the course and still nothing really to report...i have missed two classes already, one was my birthday (cut me some slack) and this past Tuesday i was sick...yes, i have a doctor's note

we have read chapter 7 out of the Davis book, Appearance and Reality and chapter 14:Plato's Cave and The Matrix from the Grau book...along with numerous handouts that he provides us with.

been talking more about Plato's cave, reality, the two world assumption, and Thursday we started talked about Descartes cogito.

he pretty much told us, and i am seeing it, that he has to cover a lot of basics before we can really move into the good stuff...for those that have never taken any type of philosophy course before...(which i havent, but from all the reading i have done here and a ton of other places i feel like i have) so we are pretty much right now in an intro type period.

anyway, next week we will get into chapters 12:Artificial Ethics, 3:Morpheus and Berkeley on Reality, 4:What's So Bad about Living in the Matrix, and 5:The Matrix of Dreams from the Grau book.

i havent started looking at these yet as a friend went into the hospital last night, but just from the titles they look to be some good class discussions...

-no cute girls

-one guy really gets on my nerves

-prof likes to go off on tangents, but its interesting just to listen to him speak

Neo1 wrote:

thankyou allone, i am a big fan of reading all thing philosophy, so these books should be a delectiable treat for my mind. thankyou

no problem, so far they seem to be pretty cool. i have only read some of the Lawrence, Grau and Davis books though...

and i cant find it or remember which book it was in (either Davis or Grau...im thinking it was Davis) but one passage got on my nerves...it said something to the effect of, "should we not trust the Oracle, she did after all lie to Neo and tell him he's not the one"...grr, NO she didnt! (there are several threads here asking about this)

anyway, i want to ask my prof about it and what he thinks...but havent had a chance to. our class discussions havent really allowed for that question or comment yet.

allone wrote:

"should we not trust the Oracle, she did after all lie to Neo and tell him he's not the one"...grr, NO she didnt!

She told him he had "the Gift" but that he was "waiting for something." At that moment in her kitchen he wasn't THE ONE because he hadn't made the choice yet.

Is that what she meant? He didn't know himself yet.

psikey

psikeyhackr wrote:

allone wrote: "should we not trust the Oracle, she did after all lie to Neo and tell him he's not the one"...grr, NO she didnt! She told him he had "the Gift" but that he was "waiting for something." At that moment in her kitchen he wasn't THE ONE because he hadn't made the choice yet. Is that what she meant? He didn't know himself yet. psikey

well, pretty much...she also said, "looks like you're waiting for something"..."what?"..."who knows, your next life maybe?"

and it was in his "next life" (after he was shot, died, came back) that he was the one.

had she told him, "yes, youre the one" then and there instead of what she did tell him, "youre not the one, you have to make a choice: your life or Morpheus'" then he may not have gone in to save Morpheus. she told him "exactly what he needed to hear" its because he didnt think that hes the one that he went in to save Morpheus. which led to him becoming the one...("there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path")

allone wrote:

-no cute girls

No distractions.

allone wrote:

-one guy really gets on my nerves

Good. Then that's one less person you have to worry about making small-talk with.

allone wrote:

-prof likes to go off on tangents, but its interesting just to listen to him speak

Nothing is worse than having a professor teaching something your fascinated with who sticks to the syllabus like a machine. Scribble notes when you hear something interesting (book references, ideas, etc) and let yourself flow with the professor's energy. Makes for good self-directed study.

Sorry, I know I sound like an anti-social little fuck, but it's only because I'm currently doing a course that I'm not 100% passionate about, have been getting involved with the plethora of hot gals on my course, and have lecturers who sound less interesting than the gentle hum of a microwave. I'm envious of what you have and I hope you'll enjoy some for me

allone wrote:

and i cant find it or remember which book it was in (either Davis or Grau...im thinking it was Davis) but one passage got on my nerves...it said something to the effect of, "should we not trust the Oracle, she did after all lie to Neo and tell him he's not the one"...grr, NO she didnt! (there are several threads here asking about this)

Yeah, the Oracle never actually says that Neo is not the One. She tells him that he already knows (i.e. she shows him the door) and he says that "I'm not the One" (i.e. he hasn't walked through it), to which she responds "sorry, kiddo - you've got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something".

In actuality, she is telling him that he is the One ("you've got the gift") but that it is lying dormant within him. It isn't until Neo is about to go in and save Morpheus that he shows you how he interpreted the Oracle's statement: "I'm not the One, Trinity - the Oracle hit me with that, too".

So, you're right, the Oracle never lied to Neo. But it goes to show that there are philosophers so anxious to capitalise on the philosophical bedstone that is The Matrix that they will jump onto the bandwagon without carefully analysing the film first.

I'd also be interested to know how far your class discussions go into Reloaded and Revolutions since most philosphers seem to dismiss their philosophical issues for some reason.

Quote:

most philosphers seem to dismiss their philosophical issues for some reason.

Philosophers are people with degrees in philosophy, they don't necessarily have any brains. The same applies to people with degrees in computer science. It is amazing how many "computer scientists" don't understand electricity. How can you understand the functionings of an electronic device with no understanding of electricity?

This society teaches people to think wih words and promotes the paradigm that the words either are, or control reality. Words affect how people think, reality doesn't give a damn about them. Europe is a continent. YEAH RIGHT!

How much of our UNreal social matrix is created by words?

psikey

psikeyhackr wrote:

Quote: most philosphers seem to dismiss their philosophical issues for some reason. Philosophers are people with degrees in philosophy, they don't necessarily have any brains. The same applies to people with degrees in computer science. It is amazing how many "computer scientists" don't understand electricity. How can you understand the functionings of an electronic device with no understanding of electricity? This society teaches people to think wih words and promotes the paradigm that the words either are, or control reality. Words affect how people think, reality doesn't give a damn about them. psikey

You're damn right.

Just because you have learned the current theory (and it is only a theory) on atomic structure in a chemistry class, that doesn't mean that you are able to construct a new theory on atomic structure.

Similarly, just because you know how to write about the works of philosophers gone by, that doesn't mean that you are able to necessarily construct your own philosophies or can think outside the already-constructed box.

Frankly, a philosophy enthusiast such as myself has as much chance of spotting philosophical parallels in the movies as a qualified philosopher.

What's interesting is that the philosophers on the 'Roots Of The Matrix' DVD in The Ultimate Matrix Collection seem to run out of things to say about the movies as they go on, when there is in fact so much more to say in either Reloaded or Revolutions on their own than the first movie.

This is most probably because it has been over half a decade since The Matrix started to be digested by philosophers around the world, and the relative lack of popularity of Reloaded and Revolutions have caused many philosophers to assume that it is nothing to worry about...which is handy because it allows them to cover up the fact that they can't perceive the depths of the films.

Quote:

Similarly, just because you know how to write about the works of philosophers gone by, that doesn't mean that you are able to necessarily construct your own philosophies or can think outside the already-constructed box. Frankly, a philosophy enthusiast such as myself has as much chance of spotting philosophical parallels in the movies as a qualified philosopher. What's interesting is that the philosophers on the 'Roots Of The Matrix' DVD in The Ultimate Matrix Collection seem to run out of things to say about the movies as they go on, when there is in fact so much more to say in either Reloaded or Revolutions on their own than the first movie. This is most probably because it has been over half a decade since The Matrix started to be digested by philosophers around the world, and the relative lack of popularity of Reloaded and Revolutions have caused many philosophers to assume that it is nothing to worry about...which is handy because it allows them to cover up the fact that they can't perceive the depths of the films.

Now its my turn to say, "you're d*** right!"

i second that, to both psikey and max.

i hate to say it, max, but i recall my prof saying once something like, "the matrix is probably the best movie ever made, the first one atleast" as he made a certain face that gave me the impression that he did not like them...

my friend in the class who sits next to me looked up at him and under his breath said, uh oh...and then to me waiting for me to say something...all i could do was drop my jaw, i couldnt understand how he could say that...(it is an opinion after all and he is entitled to it...but if his reasonings for liking M1 are what they are, then how could he not like the rest?)

anyway, class is tomorrow, i will write more...if there is anything worth repeating