»A long time ago (...) he was like you.«

Guys I understand where you coming from in suggesting
that at present A.I like our selfs is not possible. But I think
quauntem computing will make it possible.

When we concider the human brain in a sense it is very much programmmed by our enviroment nurture etc.
Our responses to anything in a sense are preditable.
The essence of man is the genetic code. A set of instrutions
if that is not a program than what is?

We are also told from animatrix that B166ER did rise above his
programing. Simply did not want to die.

Know yourself= study the program that makes you.
Ask yourself why you think the way you do.

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When we concider the human brain in a sense it is very much programmmed by our enviroment nurture etc. Our responses to anything in a sense are preditable. The essence of man is the genetic code. A set of instrutions if that is not a program than what is?

Think so? Listen to the Architect's speech again and you might gather that the Brothers are saying that it is not that simple.

But let's examine your argument for a second. What really programs the brain? Can you understand instinct in animals and plants as programming by the environment. And phychologist disagree that genes alone are the essence of who you are. Check out the effect of memes as well.

And on top of all that, maybe you can program a computer to respond to all sorts of stimuli in the environment but can you program it to recognize either the stimuli or the environment as such? I think not.

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Know yourself= study the program that makes you. Ask yourself why you think the way you do.

This is what the films are telling us ( ). And the less your answer depends on outside influences, the freer you are.

As stated in M1, the Matrix cannot tell you who you are.

The matrix cannot tell you who you are. But an Oracle can...? The real world won't tell you what you are either. The matrix isn't designed to tell you who you are.

And it's not just If/then programming... the brain is complex because each neuron is it's own processer and somehow they work together to make sense of complex logic... something current computers and programs cannot do... but as our knowledge of how the brain works grows... so to will advances in A.I. Which may, no doubt, eventually lead to perhaps sentient artificual beings which we ourselves will give birth too. To me quantom computers is another step, but organic neural networks are the end of the road to A.I. which resembles our own concoiusness. I think it is still some years down the road. Anyways, A.I. isn't the point of the matrix, it is the tool or vehicle used by the matrix to resemble spirit and innosence. Your own failures or gaps of knowledge in comprehension of how such an A.I. could exist, are not so different from past human failures to grasp concepts that were slow to reach reality in the past. However, the gaps in knoweldge have been shrinking for a long time, and will continue to do so, and I see no reason except that for the failure of our species that will stop us from achieving things tommorow which are incomprehensible today. For both good or evil.

hexediter wrote:

I see no reason except that for the failure of our species that will stop us from achieving things tommorow which are incomprehensible today. For both good or evil.

Unless Skynet decides to fry our butts. Seriously though, good post Hex. And nice to have you back again!

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The matrix isn't designed to tell you who you are.

Yes it is. Morpheus...
"What is the matrix? Control. A system to keep you under control in order to turn a human being into this..."

We are constantly bombarded with messages from various sources that tell us what we need to be. (Some of you are transmitting some of these yourselves.)

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but as our knowledge of how the brain works grows... so to will advances in A.I. Which may, no doubt, eventually lead to perhaps sentient artificual beings which we ourselves will give birth too. To me quantom computers is another step, but organic neural networks are the end of the road to A.I. which resembles our own concoiusness...

Sorry, Hex. I just can't get there with you, bro. It's too large a jump and as I said, a huge oversimplification of what life and consciousness is. And on the 10-dvd box set they mentioned that organic neural networks rely on chemical reactions which are considered much slower than electronic reactions anyway so it would seem to me that the faster computer should be the ones based on technology we currently use. But I still don't equate speed with consciousness anyway. At most you can find something at a superficial level that resembles thinking.

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Your own failures or gaps of knowledge in comprehension of how such an A.I. could exist, are not so different from past human failures to grasp concepts that were slow to reach reality in the past.

Perhaps. But we're not exactly talking about the application of physical laws that are being doubted out of ignorance like flying, the shape of the earth, or the existence of germs.

that's the thing though isn't it... our cpu's are faster then a single neouron (and seemingly more accurate), but they can't work in a group cohesion like our brain (conciousness) does. Real A.I. (conciousness) may very well involve chemical and electrical impulses should it ever come to exist, and actually it most likely would involve these things. I will agree it is a very large jump from where we stand right now, but give it 10 to 20 years, give it 50-100 and there is no telling where we will be... if we still exist.

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Perhaps. But we're not exactly talking about the application of physical laws that are being doubted out of ignorance like flying, the shape of the earth, or the existence of germs.

ok, so it's a little broad... but if conciousness can exist in us, and we can be created... it is in the words of Morphous... only a matter of time. Anyways, like i said (and I think you did too), the point of the movie isn't to debate whether A.I. is possible in the near future or at all.

As for the matrix, it is designed to keep you in... figuring out who you are is something you have to do yourself... the matrix will try to define it for you... but it can't do so more then anything else... including the real world and the matrices hidden within it as well. In fact... figuring out that you are a battery is something the matrix is desinged not to tell you lol, but rather to simply accomplish as it's goal and convince you that you are whoever you think you are in the matrix. Like the worker bee's at meta-cortex. After all, the lie isn't neccisarily evil, it's not trying to punish humans, but rather make itself generally enjoyable... however it is still trying to decieve them... and I suppose there lies the rub eh?

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As for the matrix, it is designed to keep you in... figuring out who you are is something you have to do yourself... the matrix will try to define it for you... but it can't do so more then anything else... including the real world and the matrices hidden within it as well. In fact... figuring out that you are a battery is something the matrix is desinged not to tell you lol, but rather to simply accomplish as it's goal and convince you that you are whoever you think you are in the matrix. Like the worker bee's at meta-cortex. After all, the lie isn't neccisarily evil, it's not trying to punish humans, but rather make itself generally enjoyable... however it is still trying to decieve them... and I suppose there lies the rub eh?

That's the rub and that is what the films are basically saying about our society.