»The Helicopter scene.«

After Neo and Trinity savedMorpheous and Neo saved Trinity from the Helicopter in M1, how did Morpheous know or assume that Neo was the one? What proved that?

Because nothing like that had ever happened before, therefore alarm bells ringing the one

Agent Black wrote:

After Neo and Trinity savedMorpheous and Neo saved Trinity from the Helicopter in M1, how did Morpheous know or assume that Neo was the one? What proved that?

Well for starters I don't think just anyone would grab onto a rope that was attached to a helicopter that was about to crash into a building lol.

Morpheus always believed (not just "assumed") that Neo is The One. To free Morpheus and then rescue Trinity, for Morpheus himself, is just another indication that Neo is capable of sth. and has some "skills". For Morpheus, it shows that Neo is beginning to free his mind and start to walk his path.

oh....OOHHH ok thanks.

Everytime I watch the helicopter scene I wonder why Neo is so sure that he will not kill Morpheus when he empties the machine gun on the agents in the room. With all that water and the glass, there is no chance to really aim at some specific target. Firing in that room with such a huge baby seems to be a high risk.

The only answer I found is that Neo intuitively knows where to aim because he is what he is even if he does not yet realize his abilites and connetion to the Matrix on a conscious level. Better ideas?

... but on the other side, this is not really important for the story. It's only a cool scene.

Neo is firing what appears to be a M 134 machine (gatling) gun which fires 7.62mm NATO rounds at a maximum of 4,000 rounds per minute and a peak recoil force of 120kg, or 270lbs. Basically, this thing is firing so quickly, that even the agents are not fast enough to out manouver the bullets as they are coming. If you do the math it's firing about 67 bullets a second, compared to the agents firing maybe 2 a second. The real problem here is the Recoil, but since the agents are either to stupid to run in front of Morpheous, or didn't have time to do it, Neo pretty much has a free pass to mow down agents.

As for Morpheous, he was always convinced Neo was the one, and he believed it so blindly that not even Neo, or the Oracle herself could convince him otherwise... remember? Why does he belive? I present Zee's quote "Morpheous is crazy."

I don't think Morpheus believes fully in Neo until that helicopter moment. Up until that point, Neo has certainly been an impressive candidate for the One. But when he grabs that helicopter rope, Morpheus is left with nothing to exclaim except, "Jesus Christ!" (Or, since this is the Matrix, "He is the One!"). Morpheus has seen it all, but he's never seen this.

I think that moment finishes out the arc that begins when Neo's fist comes right up to Morpheus' face. Morpheus wants Neo to achieve this, but his look is one of surprise when that fist is in front of his eyes. I've long thought that Morpheus is not only shocked that Neo manages to get his fist in, but also that he stops short. It proves that Neo was in total control of that fist.

Morpheus is convinced of Neo in the helicopter scene also because it is the first time Morpheus has seen anyone do something he cannot. Until Neo comes along, Morpheus appears to be the closest thing to The One that anyone has ever scene. But when Neo surpasses him, ego as much as anything tells him that Neo must be the One.

hexediter wrote:

Morpheous...was always convinced Neo was the one

Sorry, Capt. I'm gonna go with Hex on this one. The first conversation in M1 clearly establishes this.

The helicopter incident is to Morpheus what this post is to n-tell. It does not convince me but it is what I might point at to convince you. Morph isn't convinced by the helicopter rescue. He already believed. He asked Trin if she believes it now to see what affect it had on her. That's all.

Let me re-phrase then. He may believe, but he does not "know" balls to bone that Neo is the One.

The Wachowski's may have excised from the final story the idea that there have been several previous The One candidates that Morpheus believed in enough to lead to their own deaths. But just from from Cypher's statements at the beginning, one gets the feeling that Morpheus has lead other candidates and lost them.

It's pretty widely held that Morpheus is a bit crazy when it comes to belief in the prophecy of The One. He believes Neo is the One before the beginning of the film, the way that Neo believes he is the One before he visits the Oracle for the first time. But he does not know it balls to bone until that moment with the helicopter. If he did, why would the Wachowski's have included his reaction in that scene?

capt... wrote:

he does not know it balls to bone until that moment with the helicopter. If he did, why would the Wachowski's have included his reaction in that scene?

wtf? I thought I wrote:

He asked Trin if she believes it now to see what affect it had on her. That's all.

I know you don't give up your impressions easily even though there are abundant alternatives to choose from but gosh...

Let me ask you a question, too. If the author(s) of a story changes that story, is it now a different story or is it just the same story with modifications?

intell wrote:

Let me ask you a question, too. If the author(s) of a story changes that story, is it now a different story or is it just the same story with modifications?

wtf? I thought I wrote:

The Wachowski's may have excised from the final story the idea [blah blah blah]... But just from from Cypher's statements at the beginning, one gets the feeling that Morpheus has lead other candidates and lost them.

intell wrote:

He asked Trin if she believes it now to see what affect it had on her. That's all.

My comment was about his reaction (that big look of shock on his face as Neo grabs the rope). Not the line delivered to Trinity. Actually, I would agree with you, by the time he is asking Trinity (after the moment I'm looking at), he already knows balls to bone that Neo is the One.

intell wrote:

I know you don't give up your impressions easily even though there are abundant alternatives to choose from but gosh...

I don't give up my abundant alternatives easily. And neither do you

*chuckle*

You saw a lot in that surprised look. Look at his face when he looks up and sees Neo with the gatling gun. I suppose you're going to give us the thematic interpretation of that one, too. Ayuh?

I just plaed the scene in Path of Neo where you are in the helicoptor rescuing Morpheus and for some reason, the agents all ran in front of Morpheus. The first time, I didn't notice it and killed Morpheus but the second time, I killed them all before they reached him. DO you think it was prgrammed in the game or random chance.

hexediter wrote:

Neo is firing what appears to be a M 134 machine (gatling) gun which fires 7.62mm NATO rounds at a maximum of 4,000 rounds per minute and a peak recoil force of 120kg, or 270lbs. Basically, this thing is firing so quickly, that even the agents are not fast enough to out manouver the bullets as they are coming. If you do the math it's firing about 67 bullets a second, compared to the agents firing maybe 2 a second. The real problem here is the Recoil, but since the agents are either to stupid to run in front of Morpheous, or didn't have time to do it, Neo pretty much has a free pass to mow down agents.

Take a look at this scene and pay attention on how Neo moves that gun around. It's really inscrutable to me how he did not hit Morpheus with a bullet. But who cares... as I said, not important for the story itself...

hexediter wrote:

As for Morpheous, he was always convinced Neo was the one, and he believed it so blindly that not even Neo, or the Oracle herself could convince him otherwise... remember?

There's no doubt about that.

You also can fall in love again and again... so Morpheus every time can really believe that the person he found is The One he is looking for. And Morpheus is the dreamer, never forget that.

starcrow wrote:

You also can fall in love again and again... so Morpheus every time can really believe that the person he found is The One he is looking for. And Morpheus is the dreamer, never forget that.

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say.

I feel like until that sequence when Neo rescues him and Trin, Morpheus is just in puppy love. It's that rescue moment where Morpheus really comes to understand that Neo is his one true One. This is why he does not send Neo up against the Agent preceding his capture but faces that agent alone. And why he understands Neo then facing off against Smith. And why Morpheus' face falls so heavily when Neo is shot. In the course of those scenes he goes from believing Neo is his future the One, and knowing that Neo is the One.

"Trinity, Get Neo out, He's all that matters!" He sacrificed himself because he believed Neo was the One, what greater measure of commitment to a belief is there? He is astonished at what he see's simply because it is astonishing. I'm sure Christs diciples believed he was the son of god, but nevertheless, were most likely continually amazed when miracles were performed as the gospels describe those events.

While I'm sure ego played a role at least subconously to reinforce his belief in Neo, Morpheous also goes beyond the bounds he defines for the normal zion warrior. He goes to battle with an "upgraded" agent, and abit with a little help, he wins that fight standing his ground, exactly what he told Neo had never been done. Expanding your horizons apparently isn't only a thing Neo is capable of.

CaptPostMod wrote:

It's that rescue moment where Morpheus really comes to understand that Neo is his one true One. This is why he does not send Neo up against the Agent preceding his capture but faces that agent alone.

I would not agree with that. In the bathroom fight, Morpheus faces Agent Smith alone, because he knows that Neo is not yet ready. This is not a question of Morpheus not believing, this is a point of Neo not believing that he is The One.

Even more, Morpheus is fact is putting his life at risk because he strongly believes (read this as "know", just like you "know" that you are in love - remember the Oracle? - Damn, I love this Matrix stuff...) that Neo is The One and he wants to protect him. Morpheus thinks that Neo is not yet ready to face Smith at this point of time.

Later is the subway scene, Morpheus thinks that Neo is ready to face Smith now:

Trinity: "Run, Neo. Run! What is he doing?"
Morpheus: "He's beginning to believe."

So for Morpheus there was never a doubt the Neo is The One, the only question was when Neo will be ready to believe it.

I know I am in the minority here. But for me, the helicopter scene is such a memorable and striking scene that it has to be imbued with a sense of dynamic change. The change seems to be less in Neo at this moment (he just goes for that rope without even thinking about it). It seems to be in those around him, especially Morpheus (Trinity is just concerned with living through the moment). But I may well be wrong. And I don't trust Morpheus' statements about his own feelings and beliefs. He's the dreamer. Dreamers are always finding and losing "true" love, it's their lot in life. But every now and then they find their true one. At first they don't know the difference between this one true love and all the others, but it's there. But when it hits them... boom! Like a helicopter exploding into the side of a building!

That's how it worked with me anyway!

starcrow wrote:

Even more, Morpheus is fact is putting his life at risk because he strongly believes (read this as "know", just like you "know" that you are in love - remember the Oracle? - Damn, I love this Matrix stuff...) that Neo is The One and he wants to protect him. Morpheus thinks that Neo is not yet ready to face Smith at this point of time. Later is the subway scene, Morpheus thinks that Neo is ready to face Smith now: Trinity: "Run, Neo. Run! What is he doing?" Morpheus: "He's beginning to believe." So for Morpheus there was never a doubt the Neo is The One, the only question was when Neo will be ready to believe it.

I agree!
This is from the shooting script:

Cypher tells Neo about 5 other guys, whom Morpheus believed to be the One; but they all died.
Later, on their way to the Oracle:
_____________________________

Neo: What about the other 5 guys? The five before me? What about them?

Morpheus tries to hide his heart being wrenched from his chest.

Neo: Did you believe in them too?

Morpheus: I believed what the Oracle told me... No, I misunderstood what she told me. I believed that it was all about me.

This is difficult for Morpheus to admit.

Morpheus: I believed that all I had to do was point my finger and anoint whoever I chose. I was wrong, Neo. Terribly wrong. Not a day or night passes that I do not think of them. After the fifth, I lost my way. I doubted everything the Oracle had said. I doubted myself.
And then I saw you, Neo, and my world changed. You can call it an epiphany, you can call it whatever the hell you want. It doesn't matter. It's not about a word.
It's about this. So I can't explain it to you. All I can do is believe, Neo, believe that one day you will feel what I felt and know what I know; you are the sixth and the last. You are the One.

Off topic: Can someone please tell me how to edit your profile, this pikachu signature is annoying the hell out of me! On topic: If Neo wasn't the one, Morpheus would never have offered to give him the red or blue pill.

Archerfyre wrote:

Off topic: Can someone please tell me how to edit your profile, this pikachu signature is annoying the hell out of me!

Go to the bottom left and "click here for more options". Then click "edit your data" on the right.

Archerfyre wrote:

On topic: If Neo wasn't the one, Morpheus would never have offered to give him the red or blue pill.

Not true. Read "a life less empty" -> whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com...

Another interesting aspect of the helicopter scene:
Have you never wondered about the perfect silent interaction between Neo and Trinity in this scene?
Why did Trinity jump out of the helicopter, holding on to a rope she could not possibly know would be safely held by Neo? Or did she know?... Or feel?...
Or did she not think at all, but just act intuitively?...
Is this scene supposed to give as a hint at a special connection between Neo and Trinity prior to their kiss?

Quote:

Why did Trinity jump out of the helicopter, holding on to a rope she could not possibly know would be safely held by Neo? Or did she know?... Or feel?... Or did she not think at all, but just act intuitively?... Is this scene supposed to give as a hint at a special connection between Neo and Trinity prior to their kiss?

Now that's the point of the scene, isn't it?

Hey Guys....I believe it was clear,the way they wanted us to see the helicoptor's shadow,it is falling down and in this situation we can know that it is an unbelievable speed the shot it in the slow motion and they must slow it a lot to make it fall slowly and neo was normal he said trinity and turned the rope casually that means he was doing this movements faster than it's falling faster than a bullet....what do you think....

AK wrote:

Hey Guys....I believe it was clear,the way they wanted us to see the helicoptor's shadow,it is falling down and in this situation we can know that it is an unbelievable speed the shot it in the slow motion and they must slow it a lot to make it fall slowly and neo was normal he said trinity and turned the rope casually that means he was doing this movements faster than it's falling faster than a bullet....what do you think....

Absolutely, and that’s when Morpheus eyes go wide. Not a lot of people see what he is seeing.

As for Morpheus (the name meaning 'god of dreams') he (along with others) had spent their ENTIRE LIVES searching the Matrix looking for the One. He had risked Neo’s life 'breaking the rule' (the mind reaching a certain age), so certain he was.

Trinity: I hope you're right.
Morpheus: I don't have to hope. I know it.

You have to think about what Sight a person develops causing them to devote their entire lives -not what 'blindness'. He sees something others "would not, could not".

Ironically Morpheus Reflecting 'wonderland' -once taken (the trip) does show just how deep the rabbit hole goes, despite he himself being blown away by its meaning!

I have dreamed a dream... but now that dream has gone from me

Hence the Hammer and the Rock that rises (interpreting the Dream from Daniel Ch:2)

As the Oracle finally says to him in the end…