»Aborted reinsertion of the prime program«

You are calling the addition of choice its own version (3) and then the Arc's addition of a balance to that choice - the "Function of the One" as another version (4). Feral, how do you know that all this was not done at the same time?

While '3.0' was in 'beta-testing' he said "nearly 99% of test subjects accepted the program..." I would say that '3.0' was accepted as soon as, "...while this answer [giving the subjects a choice] functioned..." Now keep in mind we're still talking about '3.0' - - "it was fundamentally flawed, creating the otherwise contradictory anomaly, which if left unchecked, could threaten the system itself."

So, didn't that anomaly turn up during the 'beta testing'? So before the 'release of 3.0' (plugging everyone up to it), wouldn't the Arc's patch, the so-called "function of the One" have been added?


"Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world, where none suffered, where everyone would be happy?" (Agent Smith)

We couldn't really imagine how a perfect spiritual dimension is, but since '1.0' is referred to as a HUMAN world, you often see me refer to it as Edenic or paradisaic.

"...I redesigned it, based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature" (Architect)

This cannot mesh with most peoples' imagination of "hell". I can't call any period of history that hellish. And I think most people who believe in such a place of torment would not feel that it is varying in its grotesqueries. But human history does reflect that - some major atrocities and some minor ones. It was observed that Hitler and then George Bush could be seen on the TV's when Arch said that. (variations of grotesquery, lol!)

The first matrix was designed to be what we should have wanted.

The second matrix was designed to be more accurate.

The third matrix was designed to adapt to human choice with a control measure to return everything to an equilibrium every once in a while.

I could say more but I'll wait.

REDESIGNING THE MATRIX

When Arc says that he redesigned the matrix, it seems to parallel the thought of a different matrix altogether. So he refers to a "first matrix I created" then says that he redesigned it. Smith uses the same word, while he held Morpheus captive. So, the matrix has only been redisigned twice. Maybe MxO mentions a third time but if not, MxO takes place in the 3rd Matrix.

REINSERTING THE PRIME PROGRAM

As this thread has shown, this is the process by which equilibrium is restored for a short time in the Matrix after Zion is destroyed and the Matrix has 100% acceptance. (a real short time!) And what has been established above. This never resorts in a change to a different matrix design, but rather a patch on the one in place.

REBOOTING THE MATRIX

Not to be confused with the above. A reboot does not result in a different design and redesigning the matrix makes a reboot unnecessary. A reboot probably is not needed for "reinserting the prime program" since the only thing affected are "those who refuse the program" and we know how they are affected. A reboot can happen at any time for a variety of reasons.

Make sense?

while it appears that a reboot does not require the reinsertion of the prime program, I would not go as far to say a reinsertion of the prime program does not require a reboot, as I feel strongly that it would. The rest is ok. There are 3 distinct versions of the matrix, and the 3rd one was the looping integral anomaly which required that reinsertion of the prime program. It is no longer looping, so MxO really is a 4th version, as it is new territory, a new day, and with every death (smith/neo) their is rebirth.

Sorry about that, n-tell. I tend to only look in the "newest replies" section. When this thread got left behind, I forgot about it. But thanks to hexediter, I'm back on track!

intell wrote:

You are calling the addition of choice its own version (3) and then the Arc's addition of a balance to that choice - the "Function of the One" as another version (4). Feral, how do you know that all this was not done at the same time?

I don't. I was just theorizing the possibilities based on my attempt to understand what CaptPostMod was saying.

intell wrote:

So, didn't that anomaly turn up during the 'beta testing'? So before the 'release of 3.0' (plugging everyone up to it), wouldn't the Arc's patch, the so-called "function of the One" have been added?

That depends on whether or not you believe that the phenomenon of the INTEGRAL (not the systemic) anomaly was expected. My gut tells me that nobody--possibly not even the Oracle--expected the systemic anomaly to integrate and become merged with a human. It's one thing to be able to predict that a certain percentage of the humans will reject the Matrix and quite another to predict how the resulting glitches will behave.

Everything about the problems created by the systemic anomaly is random by nature--including and ESPECIALLY the eventual integral anomaly. My theory is that the very first time it happened, they didn't know what to do about it. They managed to figure out that if this human would unload the collected anomaly at the Source, that the unbalanced equation would be temporarily balanced. And somehow they then managed to get the human to do just that. But I suspect it was a real pain in the ass to get it done, and I'd be willing to bet there were lots of complications (which would make for a very interesting story IMO).

I believe the entire Path of the One subroutine was a reactionary step, rather than an anticipatory one. After the problem with the first integral anomaly was resolved, the Architect undoubtedly went right to work creating control measures for the next emergence, with the Oracle giving him advice based on her knowledge of human behavior. That was when the Path of the One was created, along with the entire concept of the One itself. One holon upon another, until Neo comes along and adds his own holon to the mix (see, I can sound just like Ken Wilber if I fake it good enough!).

feral... wrote:

That depends on whether or not you believe that the phenomenon of the INTEGRAL (not the systemic) anomaly was expected. My gut tells me that nobody--possibly not even the Oracle--expected the systemic anomaly to integrate and become merged with a human.

Expected? I think the Arc said it showed up in the 'beta testing'. So when plugging everybody in it, oh yeah! I believe it was expected. As far as the integrating it is concerned, that could have been a deliberate action, in which case it was hardly a surprised.

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...thanks to hexediter, I'm back on track!

Yeah. Hex always comes through.

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It's one thing to be able to predict that a certain percentage of the humans will reject the Matrix and quite another to predict how the resulting glitches will behave.

True. But after seeing it happen first-hand while testing subjects...?

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I believe the entire Path of the One subroutine was a reactionary step, rather than an anticipatory one.

Or a little of both.

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One holon upon another, until Neo comes along and adds his own holon to the mix (see, I can sound just like Ken Wilber if I fake it good enough!).

That's the best Ken Wilber impression I ever heard...um written.

PS

hex wrote:

I would not go as far to say a reinsertion of the prime program does not require a reboot, as I feel strongly that it would.

Tell me why, so I can feel as strongly.

intell wrote:

feral... wrote: That depends on whether or not you believe that the phenomenon of the INTEGRAL (not the systemic) anomaly was expected. My gut tells me that nobody--possibly not even the Oracle--expected the systemic anomaly to integrate and become merged with a human. Expected? I think the Arc said it showed up in the 'beta testing'. So when plugging everybody in it, oh yeah! I believe it was expected. As far as the integrating it is concerned, that could have been a deliberate action, in which case it was hardly a surprised.

I apologize if bringing up these old threads is annoying, but I'm really enjoying looking over some of our past conversations--especially this one where I really feel we started getting to the heart of some of the technical matters of the Matrix and how it functions.

In answer to what you said above, intell, what I'm saying is that the very FIRST time an integral anomaly appeared--during the Oracle's beta test--I believe it was not expected. Obviously, after the first appearance it would be from that point on. AFTER. So when the Architect takes over the reins and creates his first version, he has a control measure in place for when the next integral anomaly appears. But by the time the control measures get implemented, there's already been one UNexpected integral anomaly.

intell wrote:

feral wrote: It's one thing to be able to predict that a certain percentage of the humans will reject the Matrix and quite another to predict how the resulting glitches will behave. True. But after seeing it happen first-hand while testing subjects...?

Again, the first time an integral anomaly appeared during beta, that first time would be the unexpected one. He still counts as an integral anomaly, but he is not a One in the sense that he is not a function of the Architect's control measure. That's the whole point Cap was trying to make. The first integral anomaly was an integral anomaly (duh, heh heh), but he was not a One. He was not on the Path of the One, because the Path of the One as a control measure did not exist yet. The Path of the One was created AS A DIRECT RESULT OF the first integral anomaly.

Think about it for a second, FeralBoy. Integral meaning, complete, do you think that the integral anomaly "emerged" before the anomaly in general made itself manifest?

You know what, after replying to another thread and talking about the nature of the anomaly, the chicken-and-the-egg question became a little more complicated. I will say, though, that no matter what the systemic anomaly came before the integral anomaly. But before I get into that, let me define some of these words as I understand them.

ANOMALY: There is a computer programming definition of this term, which isn't much different than the general definition except for the fact that it's more specific in how it relates to computers. It is defined as a weird and unexplainable cause or effect; also known as a computer bug. Hard-to-figure-out programming or other computer-related problems are called anomalies. Also see "defects."

SYSTEMIC: Affecting an entire system

INTEGRAL: There are a couple definitions for this word as an adjective, and I believe they both pertain to the integral anomaly. The first definition is that it means essential or necessary for completeness. The second definition is that it means possessing everything essential, or entire. The definition of this word as a noun is also enlightening, as it means a complete unit, or a whole.

Now whether you're talking about the systemic anomaly or the integral anomaly, I believe it's two ways of looking at the same thing. There is only one anomaly, and that is the fact that 1% of the population rejects the Matrix. That is the only anomaly in the entire Matrix mythology. Period. Forget about the fact that agents called Neo the anomaly. I'll explain that in a bit. For now just understand that there are not different types of anomalies, just different ways of explaining the one anomaly.

When the anomaly is called a systemic anomaly, it is a reference to the fact that when 1% of the population rejects the Matrix, the resulting glitch affects the entire system. So the phrase "systemic anomaly" is a reference to the anomaly's EFFECTS. Over time the resulting glitch will cause the system to crash. When 100% of the population rejected the Matrix, it crashed very quickly. With only 1% rejecting it, the system is much more stable, but the crash is still inevitable.

When the anomaly is called an integral anomaly, it is a reference to the fact that when all the rejections are added together, that total is an integer, or a whole. It is the sum of the remainder of the unbalanced equation. The One represents this sum because it is the code he carries. The Path of the One leads to the Architect, where the One makes a choice to accept the programming of the Matrix. The One makes this choice on behalf of all those who made the "wrong" choice in the past. He is able to stand on behalf of the 1% because their rejections have been applied to him. This acceptance of the Matrix in effect cancels out all the rejections and temporarily brings the programming of the Matrix to 100% acceptance. It is not the ideal scenario for the Architect, because he would prefer 100% acceptance from the beginning, but he deals with it because it works.

The One is not the anomaly. He CARRIES the anomaly. He is the INEVITABLE RESULT of the anomaly. He is the CONTROL MEASURE for the anomaly. Even Neo understood the One's role as a control measure after his meeting with the Architect. In that sense, even though the agents referred to Neo as the anomaly, that may be true from their standpoint since they don't know the big picture, but it is not the best description of the One. Since the agents don't know the big picture, then of course the One would be an anomaly to them. They're not used to a human being able to do the things that they do and kick their butt. I believe that every cycle new agents are created and are given no knowledge of the cycles or the Path of the One or anything of the kind. That is why the One is always a surprise to them. That is why upgrades are made after the fact instead of from the very beginning, even though the One's emergence is completely expected by the Architect. Appearances must be kept up, and to make it appear that the One was not expected, upgrades must be made as an apparent reaction to an unexpected phenomenon.

That being said, now I can deal with the point you brought up. I believe that when the Oracle created her beta version of the Matrix, she may have had a bit of intuition about whether or not some people would ultimately reject the Matrix, but she didn't know for sure. But when 1% of the test subjects began to reject it, she then knew for sure. But at that point, there would be no Path of the One, because this is still in the test phase. This is when they are first finding out that 1% of the population rejects the Matrix. The One comes later AFTER the anomaly has reared its ugly head. Since the One is always going to be a RESULT of the anomaly, the anomaly will ALWAYS come before the One, even from the very beginning.

The bigger question is whether or not the One is engineered or is a naturally-occurring result of the anomaly. And that is a discussion that we're currently having over at

Very good distinction, Feral.

Yes. The different adjectives in front of the word, "anomaly" pretty much describe its stage at a give time or relation to the topic being discussed.

The agents refer to Neo as "THE anomaly" because being the integral anomaly, he is in effect the 1% rebellion centered around One individual.

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The Path of the One leads to the Architect, where the One makes a choice to accept the programming of the Matrix. The One makes this choice on behalf of all those who made the "wrong" choice in the past. He is able to stand on behalf of the 1% because their rejections have been applied to him. This acceptance of the Matrix in effect cancels out all the rejections and temporarily brings the programming of the Matrix to 100% acceptance.

That was so good, I decided to repost it. As you probably see, it didn't even matter which door Neo chose for the Arc's words to be appropriate when he said, "Next the moment of truth, where the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed...

Allowing choice is dangerous to all, especially in this instance.

...and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end.

Beginning and ending a cycle or being the reason for this matrix's design and the reason the whole system goes down.

Enough for now.

Thanks, man. I feel like I've come a long way and that with everyone's help I've really evolved in my understanding of the movies. I know there's more to understand, and I'm currently studying the Pandora's Boxes from the Matrix Online game to try to understand a little more about its past. When I feel like I've gathered as much as I can find, I'll make a separate post for everyone's enjoyment. So far there's quite a lot that I'm sure we'll all enjoy dissecting and studying.

You bet.

Inevitability wrote:

"In him are woven the sky and the earth and all the regions of the air, and in him rest the mind and all the powers of life. …And when he is seen in his immanence and transcendence "

hexediter wrote:

Honestly inev, alot of times I just scratch my head and wonder where the random quotes come from.

Isn't that from the Navras / Neodammerung song? And the text is originally from the Veda scriptures, if I remember correctly.